PDA

View Full Version : D* HD Resolution

HDTVFanAtic
08-08-07, 10:26 PM
Several have asked me what is up since I posted on July 1st about MHD being in 1920x1080i.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=990241&postcount=87

As some have noted, DiscoveryHD Theater is 1920x1088 and since more technical people hang out here than other sites - I'll post the the current resolutions here:

70 - HBO-HD
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9133/70hbohdeast1280x1088iqm4.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=70hbohdeast1280x1088iqm4.jpg)

71 - SHO-HD
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/145/71showtimehdeast1280x10ed7.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71showtimehdeast1280x10ed7.jpg)

72 - ESPN2-HD
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/5661/72espn2hd720x1280psh2.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=72espn2hd720x1280psh2.jpg)

73 - ESPN-HD
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9289/73espnhd720x1280pca2.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=73espnhd720x1280pca2.jpg)

74 - UHD
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7388/74uhd1280x1088iek3.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=74uhd1280x1088iek3.jpg)

75 - TNT-HD
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5428/75tnthd1280x1088iib5.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=75tnthd1280x1088iib5.jpg)

76- DHDT
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/2824/76discoveryhdt1920x1088cu4.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=76discoveryhdt1920x1088cu4.jpg)

78 - HDNET MOVIES
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6919/78hdnetmovies1280x1088itk1.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=78hdnetmovies1280x1088itk1.jpg)

79 - HDNET
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/4949/79hdnet1280x1088iyu1.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=79hdnet1280x1088iyu1.jpg)

80 - KCBS-DT
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5092/80kcbsdt1280x1088iok7.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80kcbsdt1280x1088iok7.jpg)

81 - WCBS-DT
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6900/81wcbsdt1280x1088iqy2.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=81wcbsdt1280x1088iqy2.jpg)

82 - KNBC-DT
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/972/82knbcdt1280x1088ihj3.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=82knbcdt1280x1088ihj3.jpg)

83 - WNBC-DT
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7813/83wnbcdt1280x1088ive3.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83wnbcdt1280x1088ive3.jpg)

86 - WABC-DT
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4994/86wabcdt1280x1080ptw9.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=86wabcdt1280x1080ptw9.jpg)

87 - KABC-DT
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1676/87kabcdt1280x1080pud1.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=87kabcdt1280x1080pud1.jpg)

88 - WYNY-DT
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/7969/88wnywdt1280x720ptf9.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88wnywdt1280x720ptf9.jpg)

89 - KTTV-DT
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9872/89kttvdt1280x720pyw1.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89kttvdt1280x720pyw1.jpg)

100 - PPV Previews and Most other SD Channels
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1964/100ppvpreviews480x480idi6.th.jpg (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=100ppvpreviews480x480idi6.jpg)

730 - BHD1
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/2275/730bhd11920x1088iax6.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=730bhd11920x1088iax6.jpg)

731 - BHD2 (Yes, they appear to be converting 1280x720p to 1920x1080i)
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/7402/731bhd21920x1088ifw0.th.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=731bhd21920x1088ifw0.jpg)

732 - Baseball Mix - the only SD Channel I've observed at 540x480
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1126/732bmlx540x480ijpgjd2.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=732bmlx540x480ijpgjd2.jpg)

733 - Strike Zone
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9128/733bsrz480x480icy6.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=733bsrz480x480icy6.jpg)

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9126/735480x480idc8.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=735480x480idc8.jpg)
veryoldschool
08-08-07, 10:46 PM
Now that I can see. Great job.
Thanks for the show & tell on what many have posted, but haven't been able to show.
If my eyes aren't deceiving me, these aren't the output from the H/HR-20 but what is in the SAT feed before it gets scaled to the output. Correct?
Now not to be greedy, but do you have any MPEG-4 images, up your sleeve, to show us next? :)
HDTVFanAtic
08-08-07, 10:50 PM
Now that I can see. Great job.
Thanks for the show & tell on what many have posted, but haven't been able to show.
If my eyes aren't deceiving me, these aren't the output from the H/HR-20 but what is in the SAT feed before it gets scaled to the output. Correct?

You are correct.
Jeremy W
08-09-07, 12:11 AM
Now not to be greedy, but do you have any MPEG-4 images, up your sleeve, to show us next? :)
It's not possible to get those, at least not with anywhere near the ease of getting the MPEG2 ones.
Geekzilla
08-09-07, 12:31 AM
I've been jonesing for just that info since seeing the thread on avsforum. Thanks a lot!
EaglePC
08-09-07, 12:40 AM
can I ask how you got the abc,cbs,nbc east and west coast,i can not have them turned on
HDTVFanAtic
08-09-07, 01:19 AM
Pretty sad state of affairs when Directv is blowing away Dish on DiscoveryHD Theater

1920x1080i on DirecTV
1440x1080i on Dish

13.25 Mbps Video Bitrate on DirecTV
8.22 Mbps Video Bitrate on Dish

I-Frame 61,648 bytes on DirecTV
I-Frame 40,028 bytes on Dish

Both flunk putting 2 B frames back to back - but Directv still has 50% more Video Bitrate and higher resolution than Dish.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3030/directvdhdtig0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2344/dishdhdtyv9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Jeremy W
08-09-07, 01:26 AM
Pretty sad state of affairs when Directv is blowing away Dish on DiscoveryHD Theater
Sad state of affairs, or the beginning of DirecTV's new reign as HD leader?
HDTVFanAtic
08-09-07, 02:10 AM
Sad state of affairs, or the beginning of DirecTV's new reign as HD leader?

Perhaps you mean, the beginning of DirecTV's new reign.....

You think its any coincidence that DiscoveryHD is owned by Liberty Media and the others are not?

And if you think they are doing you favors changing a 1280x720p program to 1920x1080i, that's only a waste of bandwidth....as you are in essence throwing away 33% of the resolution per frame - as well as throwing away every other frame.
veryoldschool
08-09-07, 06:54 AM
Just to give an some idea of what the receiver sends to our TVs:
9485

9486

Both of these have had the "missing third" averaged back into them.
This is not the same has having the whole image sent as with the Discovery HD image.
JeffBowser
08-09-07, 07:05 AM
Ah, good stuff - cold hard data.
veryoldschool
08-09-07, 07:23 AM
This is what MPEG-4 is thought to look like if the SAT feed could be seen:
9487
RAD
08-09-07, 08:02 AM
Where did D* find the bandwidth to be able to do this? Wonder if they got new MPEG2 encoders that allowed for this?
mx6bfast
08-09-07, 09:09 AM
Where did D* find the bandwidth to be able to do this? Wonder if they got new MPEG2 encoders that allowed for this?
I'm asking because I don't know for sure, does increasing from 1280 to 1920 while keeping the same bandwidth numbers increase the amount of bandwidth D* is using for the station? I would think it doesn't.

Like I posted over on the avs thread, if D* increases one they need to increase both. Meaning the resolution and bandwidth. I've still noticed a lot of blocking on the channel.
Jeremy W
08-09-07, 04:56 PM
And if you think they are doing you favors changing a 1280x720p program to 1920x1080i, that's only a waste of bandwidth....as you are in essence throwing away 33% of the resolution per frame - as well as throwing away every other frame.
I suspect that they do it because those two channels show different RSNs every night, with different resolutions. They probably don't want to switch the resolution constantly, for whatever reason, so they just lock it on 1080i.
Jeremy W
08-09-07, 04:58 PM
I'm asking because I don't know for sure, does increasing from 1280 to 1920 while keeping the same bandwidth numbers increase the amount of bandwidth D* is using for the station? I would think it doesn't.
If the bitrate stays static, then the bitrate stays static. They can change the resolution all they want, it won't affect the bitrate. The only difference is that they should be using a higher bitrate at 1920 than at 1280, because there is more information. But they don't have to.
Dazed & Confused
08-09-07, 05:31 PM
Has anyone seen the latest NGC HD Sneek Peak 46 on Yosemite? I don't know the resolution or bitrate, and maybe my eyes are not that discerning, but that is a pretty sweet picture. Maybe that scenery makes anything look good, but it just seemed exceptional. If that is HD Lite, then I guess I will stop worrying about PQ.
LameLefty
08-09-07, 05:48 PM
I recorded and watched that one last night. I saw one instance of macro-blocking in a fast, dark transition (and I think that was during the one or two short breaks where they advertised NGC generally) but otherwise it was pristine.
mx6bfast
08-09-07, 08:27 PM
If the bitrate stays static, then the bitrate stays static. They can change the resolution all they want, it won't affect the bitrate. The only difference is that they should be using a higher bitrate at 1920 than at 1280, because there is more information. But they don't have to.
Thought so.
HDTVFanAtic
08-09-07, 09:21 PM
Has anyone seen the latest NGC HD Sneek Peak 46 on Yosemite? I don't know the resolution or bitrate, and maybe my eyes are not that discerning, but that is a pretty sweet picture. Maybe that scenery makes anything look good, but it just seemed exceptional. If that is HD Lite, then I guess I will stop worrying about PQ.

It's not HDLITE - its 1920x1080i.

They use the same mux that they use for 99 HD-PPV and 95 Special Events (i.e. BHD1 and BHD2).

So if there is no Baseball in HD, they will be showing HD-PPV on 99 in 1920x1080i and whatever the choose for the mux that is 95 (or MHD or whatever channel they decide to call it that day) for NGC HD Sneek Peak.
Bizarroterl
08-10-07, 11:05 AM
I would rate TNT-HD as HDlite. Not necessarily because of the signal, but because of the source. Almost everything on TNTHD is scaled SD. That is NOT HD!

My greatest concern over the new HD line up is how much of it will be real HD and not scaled SD.
OutGolfn
08-10-07, 01:44 PM
I am watching the PGA Championship right now on TNT-HD and I have to say it looks pretty darn good today.
veryoldschool
08-10-07, 01:50 PM
I am watching the PGA Championship right now on TNT-HD and I have to say it looks pretty darn good today.
Not to keep beating a dead horse:
So what you're seeing is what it can look like with a good source.
Bizarroterl
08-11-07, 12:14 PM
Which on TNTHD is rarely the case.
brugg90
08-11-07, 10:43 PM
is there anyway to tell when the ngc will air a program...i've only caught one and it was not much better than SD, i just want to see pristine hd from direcTv that i've been missing so far. The guide doesnt really tell, b/c usually the channel just goes black w/no picture.
mannt88
08-11-07, 10:47 PM
Great news thanks dude
hdtvfan0001
08-12-07, 07:43 AM
I am watching the PGA Championship right now on TNT-HD and I have to say it looks pretty darn good today.
I noticed that too. Perhaps when D10 is operational, and the new channels are juggled and live....the bandwidth allocations and MPEG4 will all look this clean.
JLucPicard
08-12-07, 10:12 AM
I think D* will be doing themselves and their customers a HUGE disservice if they don't take the additional bandwidth that D10 and D11 will provide and make the whole HD experience better and as close to perfect as possible.