Agenda based programming?

[Halfsek]

So this is a tough call. I understand the necessity of having different viewpoints available to all. The problem is that when we have a limited space- bandwidth in this case, to air such programs, it can hurt other things.
For example, I came across FSTV (I think I remembered it right) today. As a channel, it's very clear on what their agenda is. Now this is fine, but when the space for this channel (which is aimed at a fringe market) makes other more popular/ useful/ less fringe channels lower in quality, I start having a problem with it.
This channel happens to be about as left on the political spectrum as can be. I have a problem with that not necessarily on the political part, but the fact that to be fair, Dish would then have to air a channel on the far right- if one became available. Now we have two channels which combined, probably have an audience of a fraction of a fraction of one percent of Dish subscribers taking up space. Then of course the stage is set for more channels like these.
Added to that, the programs I watched were quite shoddily produced and edited. Sort of a "Legalize Drugs!", "No war for oil!" version of Wayne's World. Making the space they're using even more of a waste.
This has nothing to do with censorship. It has to do with a pay service lowering the quality of some of it's goods for the benefit of something which a huge majority of it's customers do not want.

[markh]

So it's bad to have a view from the left of the political spectrum?
Why not remove some of the religious channels that come from the right?

Dish uses FSTV to fulfill part of it's requirement to have public interest programming. Also I think FSTV is based in Colorado, so it's kind of a hometown channel for Dish.

Maybe we can make a deal. If Dish removes Fox News then FSTV can go too. :)

[Mark Holtz]

Free Speech TV is on the air to fulfil PI requirements. One of these days, I gotta writie up a drinking game for that channel.

But, what are you going to replace that channel with? The Word Network? They can only use one channel of C-SPAN for PI, and I think NASA also is a PI channel.

[FTA Michael]

Halfsek, you say you understand the need for airing different viewpoints, so I don't understand what's wrong with FSTV. Because some of its shows have shoddy production values? Are there alternative, slickly produced anti-establishment networks available?

I'm happy to have Free Speech TV available. It promotes values and ideas that are often polar opposites to the majority of consumer-driven, conglomerate-owned channels up and down the channel guide. This is exactly the kind of channel that ought to be in the PI group, IMHO.

If you want an easy target, what about all the shopping networks? There's no FCC requirement to carry these networks (I'm talking the nets, not the local channel versions), yet there are a bundle of them on Dish taking up bandwidth.

I think it's cool that I can go to Educating Everyone and see a talking head giving me Bible lessons, or to BYUTV to hear about Mormon family life, or to FSTV to hear about oil companies causing wars overseas. I don't actually _watch_ any of them, but it sure is cool to know they're there.

[Halfsek]

As I said, it's not the political view that I was opposed to. It was the fringe aspect and the (most probable) lack of a customer desire for it. In addition, the shoddy work done of their shows doesn't really score points for me.

If FSTV is on there as a PI requirement, do they have to pay to be on Dish? I would assume that any station not on as a PI (such as FOX or any religious channel) has to pay to be on Dish. I would assume that's the difference between FSTV and 'Let's Praise the Lord' channel.

Fox News and CNN already balance each other out.

Maybe 'Uncle Jesper's Lets Kick out the Minorities' channel could be a good balance for FSTV. :)

When it comes down to it, my whole point was use of bandwidth. I could easily be happy without any shopping channels either.

[Halfsek]

Carload- Remember, I'm talking about the use of limited space. We have all the opportunity in the world to jump on the web and read about/ watch Quicktime movies of whatever we want.
I was simply saying that channels like these which are not going to be watched take up bandwidth for other channels which people actually pay money for.
I would gladly have it on local TV and watch it on occasion.

That's all. I don't care that they're anti this or pro that.

The shoddy workmanship just sort of makes it worse; sort of like salt in the wound.

[rych]

I happen to like FSTV and WorldLink because of their content

[Mark Holtz]

If you check TNGTony's chart, you would find that half of the PI channels are on 110, half on 119, and two are on 61.5/148. As per the FCC license requirements, Dish has to set aside a percentage of the channels for PI content. Anyone know the rules for delivering the content?

And, to Free Speech's defense, not all of the shows look like community cable TV productions. Some actually were produced by PBS stations, although, at times, it's seems to be a platform for Ralph Nader. (But, then again, the Word channel appears to be a platform for Reverend Al Sharpton.)

Oh well, at least you can lock out the channel or remove it from the favorites list....

[FTA Michael]

In this tiny discussion room, in less than 24 hours, we already have at least two voices that say we enjoy having FSTV. Lack of customer desire doesn't seem to be a problem here.

There are dozens of channels that appeal to only a tiny niche of the audience. That doesn't make them bad or worthless.

The wonderful diversity of programming available on Dish is a big part of its appeal to me. If I just wanted ESPN and HBO, I could get that on analog cable.

Hey, if it were up to me, I'd delay some locals so Dish could roll out more networks from "America's Top 2000" (see http://www.geocities.com/dishcustomer/AT200.html). Well, except for Product Information Network. ;)

Have a great week, everybody!

[gcutler]

I'm a left of center kind of person but FSTV makes me look like a conservative. I find 1/3 of the stuff informative (especially when they have counter programming to political conventions and government meetings going on at the time). 1/3 of the stuff just tooo radical for my tastes (sometimes Noam Chomsky goes a little too far) and 1/3 the stuff I just watch and wonder where did this stuff come from (They had some documentary about a homeless hispanic transvestite prostitute heroine addict).

So a 1/3 of the time I'm nodding in agreement with the channel, a 1/3 of the time I'm shaking my head in disagreement, and a 1/3 of the time my Jaw just hangs there not knowing what they intended.

[Nick]

I think FSTV has a place in the Dish programming lineup. Just viewing content that we agree with is kinda like mental masturbation. To me, it is important to at least listen to other points of view. If one is not well-grounded in their own beliefs, they would find FSTV to be uncomfortable, if not downright threatening.

Besides, I like "DykeTV". It's a hoot. :)

[pmichael]

I don't see anything wrong with FSTV being on DISH. FSTV provides a unique perspective that is rarely seen anywhere else. Though I do not watch FSTV often, I cannot see much to be gained by eliminating a channel just because its perspective is not shared by much of the country. Moreover, it's not as if removing this one channel would result in pristine picture quality anyway. And if someone is not interested in FSTV's programming, that viewer will not watch it.

[Halfsek]

That's fair enough. In fact, I did notice that Dish doesn't allocate that much bandwidth to FSTV. The picture quality is pretty crappy.
My thing is that when I want an alternative viewpoint, I jump onto my favorite whack job websites (right and left).

If Dish had "God's Children" channel which showed anti-abortion protests all the time and other fringe right activities, I wouldn't want it wasting space either. I could probably just go to "God's Channel.com" if I wanted to read or see an alternative viewpoint.

But you're right. Not having one channel which is already at a low quality won't make others better. But if Dish got rid of a bunch of those channels. :)

I have to admit though. I watch it and "enjoy" it on occasion. But if the choice were to watch CSI with better quality and have to go on the web to find that stuff, I'll go that route.

[lee635]

Halfsek, if you want a high quality picture, you might try picking up a used c-band system. Just check the classifieds or call your local D* or E* retailer, they'll know plenty of folks who would be happy to have you cart away their BUD.

The picture is crystal clear because it's what the DBS providers use as their source before they compress it down and squeeze it onto their satellites. You can get most of the more popular cable channels and premiums on analog c-band while niche cable channels are available on c-band digital. The monthly subscription fee is comparable to DBS, sometimes less depending on what you subscribe to.

As to using the web to get information, frankly you could take that argument to all the news channels and all the shopping channels. However, not everyone has access to the internet and not everyone is skilled enough to find quickly the many news and shopping sites.

As for FSTV in particular, I support the channel, at least they show original programming not broadcast elsewhere. When was the last time you saw Ralph Nader being interviewed on CNN's Larry King? We must have missed DykeTV on Fox News last week.

I'm tired of the many cable channels that mostly just show movie and series reruns from network tv and infomercials. That's more of a waste IMHO.

[TNGTony]

You can see the channels used to fulfill the PI requirement by the FCC here: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/49

Just to review, Dish must use a certain percentage of their bandwidth NO MATTER HOW many other channels they carry. They also have a minimum bandwidth they can give the PI channels mandated. Only ONE channel by a particular owner/programmer can be used as a PI channel and the channel MUST be Commercial Free and either non-profit or not-for-profit (one or the other, I forget which).

See ya
Tony

[bryan27]

Halfsek, FSTV and the other PI channels are not wasting space. If FSTV wasn't there the same ammout of space would have to be used for a PI channel to take it's place.

These are the rules regarding PI carriage in layman terms:

1. 4-7% of the channel capacity must be reserved for PI channels (The key here is "reserved", other channels may use the reserved space until a PI channel becomes available).
2. If the percentage of reserved space results in a fraction the number of PI channels are rounded up (IE: if 4% is 2.35 channels the provider needs to carry 3 channels. Basically there is 1 PI channel for every 25 channels).
3. The percentage is determined by the average of the channels offered in the previous year with channel counts taken once per quarter (IE: the number of PI channels in 2003 are based on 2002 channel counts).
4. PI channels must not be charged more than the wholesale charge for carrying the channel.
5. Only 1 channel from an entity may be carried as PI unless all PI channels in the country have been given an oppurtunity to be carried (this will never occur as there are more PI channels than space).
6. PI channels may not be edited by the provider nor may the provider have any interest in the channel (IE: the provider can't own all or a part of the channel).
7. PI channels are to be treated like all other channels in the line-up and are to be given the same treatment (IE: channels are to be given the same amount of bandwidth as other channels).
8. A variety of channels with a variety of viewpoints must be carried (IE: you have to carry more than just religious PI channels).
9. The PI channels must be offered to every subscriber free regardless of package (E* intreprets subscribers as those with AT-50 or higher, anyone with less isn't a subscriber, but a customer. D* makes their PI channels available to everyone regardless of programming level).
10. To qualify as a PI channel the channel must be non-commercial and owned by a non-profit or government entity.

IMHO E* does very well at offering a variety of viewpoints in their 4% space. The current PI channels on E* are:

61.5/148
Good Samatarian, Safety-Net, FEC

110
Research, HITN, PBS You, UWTV, CCCSAT, StarNet, Colors, EE, FSTV, BYU-TV

119
University House, EWTN, Angel One, UCTV, TBN, NASA, WorldLink, RFD-TV, C-Span


For comparison:
Sky Angel (61.5)
Angel One, DayStar, INSP

DirecTV
(101) C-Span, DayStar, TBN, TCC, The Word, WorldLink, PBS You.
(110) NO PI Channels (space required to be reserved for 1)
(119) NASA, RFD-TV, I-Life, CCTV-9, BYU-TV, EWTV-Latin, MariaVision

[Nick]

Thanks, Tony & Bryan for "'splaining" the PI carriage rules. Verrry interesting! :)

[Steve Mehs]

Bryan, since TBN owns TCC, TCC doesn't *count*.

[Halfsek]

Yeah. Good explanation. I suppose that since Dish is required by law and that all the channels are paying for it, then there could be worse ones up.

[Mark Holtz]

Originally posted by bryan27
4. PI channels must not be charged more than the wholesale charge for carrying the channel.

So, in other words, the PI channel has to provide a feed to Dish Network, even if it's a ISDN feed over the Internet. :)

[Scott Greczkowski]

I watch FSTV from time to time, and while most of the time I don't agree with what they are saying, it does make you think.

If they get rid of one Public Interest Channel I would vote for the Good Samaritan Network.

[TNGTony]

Hey Bryan!

Mind if I copy and past your 'spenation of the PI rules on the EKB on the page I linked on my previous post?

Post here or PM me.

See ya
Tony

[Scott Greczkowski]

3. The percentage is determined by the average of the channels offered in the previous year with channel counts taken once per quarter

I wonder if we will be getting a LOT of new PI channels this year? I ask this because I wonder if all the MUST CARRY Channels count against the avg number of Channels offered?

[Steve Mehs]

Ah yes December is upon us, time for more PIs.

[bryan27]

Steve, I thought TBN owned that one. Thanks. Notice how Angel One counts from a loop hole in the laws. Dominion, the DBS licensee and a for-profit entity, "rents" space to Sky Angel, the non-profit entity, which inturn offers the non-commercial Angel One.

Z'Loth believe it or not. A few of the PI channels send their programming to the providers via tape and when there isn't a tape the provider puts up slides provided by the channel (Good Samatarian is an example).

Tony feel free to use it.

Scott, I think the FCC will have to make a ruling. On one side you have DBS which will say that not all channels are offered to everyone and that PI capacity should only be determined by the number of channels available nationally. On the other side you have people like Al Sharpton and his Word Net saying that the law is total channel capacity.
What I think may happen is that there will be a ruling that 4% of the channel capacity on CONUS TPs must be reserved for national PI channels and 4% of the channel capacity of each spot beam must be reserved for regional PI channels and the regional PI channels only have to provide their channel to the nearest POP. For example the Ohio Beam has 27 channels on it so there would need to be space reserved for 2 PI channels on it.

What we are probably going to be seeing is regular channels on PI space because not enough channels are going to be willing to pay to be on DBS. The only PI channel that I can think of that could afford to be "picked up" that isn't on either provider is Classic Arts Showcase. Some regional PIs for spots would be California Channel, Boston Catholic TV, & Ecumenical TV (OH,WV,PA)