View Full Version : Optical Audio Out - DD Slow to Play!
I have finally gotten around to buying some much needed new cables for my HT.
I have a nice little issue /w the HR20, when I change channels, play a recording, press pause - then play, etc.. where there should be audio, there is none, it takes the audio about a min. of 5-10sec. /w SD Content, or some commercials to 30-40+ sec. before it plays through to my receiver.
It's the worst on HD content, and it'll vary in time, it seem the more the show is watched, the less delay you get, but there's still a long delay, to the point i have to back up the progress bar to sometimes at least 1min. before where I want it to play to be certain I get the audio in time and don't miss anything!
It only does this /w Optical, 2 chan. & HDMI are both fine. The HDMI goes into my TV, and if I playback the audio /w my TV speakers from the audio being carried over the HDMI it plays fine. My TV only support PCM, not DD so that is likely why HDMI is fine as well.
I have tested different Toslink cables, as well as determined that it's not the fault of the receiver. I can play my TiVo, DVD Player, etc.. through the optical input of my receiver /w no perceivable delay till I hear audio.
This is not a lip sync issue, it's simply that the HR20 is not sending out the audio, IE. it's choking on processing it.
Tested /w Latest Natl. Rel. 0x17E - Same Prob.
It only happens when I set the audio output to Dolby Digital, if I set it to PCM it doesn't do it. To make certain it isn't the fault of slow DD processing @ my receiver I have run DD5.1 & DTS DVD's into it via Toslink /w no issues.
Is this a known issue, do I have a bum audio processor it my box which I have had since Oct. or is there some sort of fix?
I'm afraid I may have to swap the unit, if I do, that'll be my second swap, 3rd unit.
This current one is my 2nd unit.
CCarncross
08-11-07, 06:37 AM
Is your AV receiver an HTiB type unit? I do not see this type of response from my HR20s, but I'm not familiar with Samsung HT stuff, I use Yamaha and Denon.
Is your AV receiver an HTiB type unit? I do not see this type of response from my HR20s, but I'm not familiar with Samsung HT stuff, I use Yamaha and Denon.
Yes it is an HTIB /w DVD Upconvert which BTW doesn't even work it only goes out the HDMI as 480p, and can't change it /w the button that's supposed to do that.
I sent it off for repair because it had a whole boatload of issues, and they fixed most of them, save for bad lip sync delay on DD encoded DiVx's, but all other lip sync is fixed or much improved to be manageable. They replaced the Main PCB, the HDMI board, and the optical board. LOL! But the upconvert still doesn't work over HDMI, my HR20 does fine at all resolutions over HDMI.
I'll be getting on the horn /w them and raising the roof off the joint next week.
However it still has a problem /w the HR20, seeing my tests in my 1st post, I'd say it's pretty proof positive that it's not the Receiver, wouldn't you?
BTW. SD DirecTiVo is set to DD via optical.
CCarncross
08-11-07, 04:22 PM
The only problem I gleam from your OP is that it still could be the Samsung having trouble locking on to the DD signal in an acceptable time. My money is still on the Samsung, especially after you posted all the problems you have had with it. Remember the only other DD signal you have to compare it to is the built-in DVD player, and it isnt muting and unmuting the signal every channel change, it just starts playing from the beginning.
texasbrit
08-12-07, 06:56 AM
It looks like the Home Theater box to me also. As CCarncross says, when you are switching channels on the HR20, you interrupt the DD audio stream and when it starts up again it is probably in the middle of an audio "frame". Your Home Theater box is having problems getting sync on the "broken" bitstream. DD for sources like a DVD does not suffer from this problem.
Getting sync on a new DD bitstream causes problems with a number of home theater systems. Lots of reports on specific Pioneer models taking forever to sync and sometimes not doing it at all. A few other receivers give loud thumps or screeching sounds. But I have not seen a report like this about any Samsung, so it may be linked to all your other problems.
The only problem I gleam from your OP is that it still could be the Samsung having trouble locking on to the DD signal in an acceptable time. My money is still on the Samsung, especially after you posted all the problems you have had with it. Remember the only other DD signal you have to compare it to is the built-in DVD player, and it isnt muting and unmuting the signal every channel change, it just starts playing from the beginning.
I did test my SD TiVo /w DD Out via the Optical Toslink interface. I have also tested an external DVD Player, it's a Philips DVD recorder. I used DTS, DD 5.1, etc.. DVD's. I paused, skipped. stopped, played, etc.. no problems. I also did the same on the TiVo, no problems either.
I have been getting pops & snaps via optical input from the HR20 while waiting for the audio to pickup. This just happened /w the new CE.
I still can't rule out the Samsung completely, but it's awfully suspicious since the TiVo "External" DVD Player works fine via the same interface & encodings.
However, I must say even more evidence towards the HR20 is that /w the newest CE, I am seeing a shorter delay. Which is nice, but it's still not fixed, and has added the above stated audio pops, and snaps, kinda like a record needle engaging the track badly.
It looks like the Home Theater box to me also. As CCarncross says, when you are switching channels on the HR20, you interrupt the DD audio stream and when it starts up again it is probably in the middle of an audio "frame". Your Home Theater box is having problems getting sync on the "broken" bitstream. DD for sources like a DVD does not suffer from this problem.
Getting sync on a new DD bitstream causes problems with a number of home theater systems. Lots of reports on specific Pioneer models taking forever to sync and sometimes not doing it at all. A few other receivers give loud thumps or screeching sounds. But I have not seen a report like this about any Samsung, so it may be linked to all your other problems.
I have seen those reports on the Pioneer's, however mine has started making 'record-turntable' type noises when it engages /w the receiver and as it syncs up the bitstream. After it syncs up and plays, it doesn't make those noises anymore.
It's kind of a thump, and a little bit of light 'screech'. But nothing damaging, or horribly annoying like say Jim Carey's "Most annoying sound in the world" on D&D'er.
cartrivision
08-13-07, 02:33 PM
Yes it is an HTIB /w DVD Upconvert which BTW doesn't even work it only goes out the HDMI as 480p, and can't change it /w the button that's supposed to do that.
With that Samsung HT unit, you have to press AND HOLD the "HD" button for about 2 seconds to make it change resolutions. I also thought mine wasn't working until I RTFM and found out that a regular momentary press of the button doesn't perform the intended function (like every other button on the remote does). Also, if you don't have the HT HDMI output connected to your TV HDMI input, the HT will not switch resolutions. And another thing... I'm pretty sure that you can only change resolutions when the DVD player is in the stop mode, so pressing the HD button while playing a DVD won't change resolutions.
With that Samsung HT unit, you have to press AND HOLD the "HD" button for about 2 seconds to make it change resolutions. I also thought mine wasn't working until I RTFM and found out that a regular momentary press of the button doesn't perform the intended function (like every other button on the remote does). Also, if you don't have the HT HDMI output connected to your TV HDMI input, the HT will not switch resolutions. And another thing... I'm pretty sure that you can only change resolutions when the DVD player is in the stop mode, so pressing the HD button while playing a DVD won't change resolutions.
Check, check & double check, except for the HOLDING of the button!
I even RTFM'd and still didn't help. LOL! It just told me what I already knew.
Awesome, tip, I'd go try it right now, but I just shut off the TV and it's a DLP. I don't want to "disturb it!" DLP's are so annoying to me, GRRR. I'm so buying a CRT HDTV again as soon as I get some cash. :D
Evil Samsung, I swear my manual doesn't say that, I'll check when I test it and let you know. Of course they didn't tell me that when they sent away the Svc. request. Dorks!:nono2:
Thx again for the tip, here's hoping it likes me! :grin:
cartrivision,
Thx. a bunch, that worked perfectly. Had to hold it for at least 2 sec. it was along wait, LOL!
I went back to the manual, and it does say push & hold!
You were right, I apparently missed that wording, IE it didn't hit me when I read it.
The optical audio issue is still there, I may have to take it to a friends house and see if it does it on his receiver.
ammar249
08-14-07, 08:26 PM
I'm having the exact same issue with my samsung unit. I exchanged the unit but the new unit has the exact same sound delay issue as the previous one. I have been experiencing this problem since June of 2006, thats when I bought the samsung unit.
DirecTV HR20-700
Samsung HT-Q70(HTIB)
I'm having the exact same issue with my samsung unit. I exchanged the unit but the new unit has the exact same sound delay issue as the previous one. I have been experiencing this problem since June of 2006, thats when I bought the samsung unit.
DirecTV HR20-700
Samsung HT-Q70(HTIB)
Which samsung do you have? Is it the HT-Q70?
Did you exch. it @ the store, or did you get it repaired?
You should call Koambra, Samsung's repair unit on the Pacific Coast in California @ Main # 566-422-3636.
I would talk to the repair dept. and see what's up, I'm going to do the same, in fact I'll post back /w who I spoke to after I find out the best person to talk to there.
I'm beginning to think we either have discovered another receiver that has issues getting synch on the bitstream, or the HR20 really has a compatibility problem.
It's puzzling to me that my TiVo doesn't do it.
It's also puzzling to me that lastnight, It was so consistently bad in 1 particular spot of Hell's Kitchen close to the end, that I had to switch it to PCM in the audio options of the HR20, and even then it still did it. Only when I stopped the show, and resumed it, did it switch to PCM, which was quiet as heck. Even maxing the vol. I couldn't hear it very well. So I just switched the HR20 back to DD, then resumed the program & backed it up like 1min. and watched a silent film for a while untill it picked up the audio just before where I wanted it.
Seems pretty suspicious of the DVR in that case. Seeing how I had to actually stop the DVR program, and resume play for it to snap out of it. :(
I'm having the exact same issue with my samsung unit. I exchanged the unit but the new unit has the exact same sound delay issue as the previous one. I have been experiencing this problem since June of 2006, thats when I bought the samsung unit.
DirecTV HR20-700
Samsung HT-Q70(HTIB)
Any other owners care to add their experiences?
I called Samsung repair, and got a helpful individual in the DVD Dept. for repairs. He said he's check /w Engineering on it being a known issue/fix, etc.. He got back to me & basically said i had to talk to CSR/Tech L2, a I had talked to L1. I told him basically to stuff it, and come up /w a real answer then call me back. Haven't heard back since, that was like Wed. So I need to get the time to call this week, I'll keep y'all posted.
BTW. Correction on that phone number for Koambra, it's 562-422-3636.
4DThinker
08-20-07, 09:35 PM
I had a similar delay issue when my HR20 was hooked up via optical to my older Sony A/V receiver. Change the channel and it would take the Sony a two-count or more before it had any audio. I chalked it up to a slow audio processor in the Sony. That Sony has since been replaced by a much more modern one that has HDMI pass through and as such my audio comes through on HDMI now. No problems now.
skroll116
08-21-07, 08:53 AM
I am seeing some of the same issues. I am new to HD (2 weeks) so figured I might be doing something wrong.
I had my HR20-100 connected directly to the TV and all worked fine. Last week I connected an Optical Cable from the HR20 to my Denon 3802 receiver for audio. When I change channels both the audio and video take a few seconds so I am not complaing about that (right now), but the noise that comes from the surround speakers is quite obnoxious. Sometimes it is quiet and sometimes my dog jumps up and runs out of the room.
I am seeing some of the same issues. I am new to HD (2 weeks) so figured I might be doing something wrong.
I had my HR20-100 connected directly to the TV and all worked fine. Last week I connected an Optical Cable from the HR20 to my Denon 3802 receiver for audio. When I change channels both the audio and video take a few seconds so I am not complaing about that (right now), but the noise that comes from the surround speakers is quite obnoxious. Sometimes it is quiet and sometimes my dog jumps up and runs out of the room.
That's awefull, have you tried any other Devices on the Denon via Optical? Any problems /w them?
Do you have the video passing through the Denon as well as the audio? Or is the video just going straight to the TV, does it do it /w other video outputs?
Have you tried other optical inputs on the A/V Receiver?
skroll116
08-22-07, 07:09 AM
I will try another input tonight. I have my DVD player going through the Denon using an Optical Input and have no issues.
skroll116
08-22-07, 08:49 AM
I have found some more info on other message boards to my issue and thought I would post here.
Looks like the issue has to do with the Audio Autodetect feature on the Denon receiver itself regarding DD 5.1 sound. When the channel is changed the signal drops and the noise is produced. Once the new channel is aquired the DD light on the receiver comes back on and the noise goes away.
I used to have a Sony T-60 receiver that I had connected to the same receiver using an optical cable and had no issues.
Is there a way to speed up the amount of time it takes for changing channels on the HR20-100? When I hit channel up/down or key in the new channel it takes 3-4 seconds to actuall change the channel.
I have found some more info on other message boards to my issue and thought I would post here.
Looks like the issue has to do with the Audio Autodetect feature on the Denon receiver itself regarding DD 5.1 sound. When the channel is changed the signal drops and the noise is produced. Once the new channel is aquired the DD light on the receiver comes back on and the noise goes away.
I used to have a Sony T-60 receiver that I had connected to the same receiver using an optical cable and had no issues.
Is there a way to speed up the amount of time it takes for changing channels on the HR20-100? When I hit channel up/down or key in the new channel it takes 3-4 seconds to actuall change the channel.
Your information is correct. Each receiver handles the audio "switch" differently. Hasan and texasbrit are the most familiar with this question, but there are multiple threads on this issue, just not for your specific receiver (I started one myself, although my receiver mutes the noise!)
There are also multiple threads on channel changing speeds as well. Component may be a little quicker due to the handshaking that HDMI requires.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94826
8/27/07
To make a long story short, as I was to busy my Dear old Dad was kind enough to take the time for me to worm his way through Corporate Headquarters and past the snippy secretary who stated "I don't have to let you talk to anyone, this is a private company you know!"
Totally above Exec. CSR, CSR, Repair, etc.. working his way into a callback from a very nice American sounding gentleman in the engineering dept. whom called me back earlier in the week.
He was sifting through the call records/notes from the CSR Dept. looking for similar issues, he was also going to test using a DirecTV HD Box they have there in the lab.
I in fact even linked him to this very thread, to show that another user was having the same issues.
UPDATE!!!
9/7/07
The Samsung Engineer & I have been e-mailing back & forth.
He has tested a unit in the lab on a DirectTV H20 box, and channel changing picture+audio was right on with no delay.
I brought to his attention that my DVR version of the H20, my HR20 doesn't do that here, it takes a bit to synch up when I change the channel. Also I wanted him to make sure that it was HD stations & HD Content, not sd re-broadcast over the HD channel.
He's going to field test the unit this weekend at an employees house who has the exact same setup as I do. He'll report back on his findings.
cartrivision
09-07-07, 02:23 PM
Does anyone with an external audio receiver hooked up to a HR20 via an optical audio cable ever have the issue where the optical audio becomes delayed/out of sync of the other audio outputs onthe HR20. Mine does that every so often when the sound comes back just after FF or Rewinding a program on the HR20. When it does that, pausing and unpausing the HR20 gets it back in sync as does switching to a different audio input and back to the optical input on the receiver, so it's not an issue of the HR20 putting out out of sync audio, but of the receiver actually getting out of sync/behind in processing and amplifying the supplied audio signal.
Does anyone with an external audio receiver hooked up to a HR20 via an optical audio cable ever have the issue where the optical audio becomes delayed/out of sync of the other audio outputs onthe HR20. Mine does that every so often when the sound comes back just after FF or Rewinding a program on the HR20. When it does that, pausing and unpausing the HR20 gets it back in sync as does switching to a different audio input and back to the optical input on the receiver, so it's not an issue of the HR20 putting out out of sync audio, but of the receiver actually getting out of sync/behind in processing and amplifying the supplied audio signal.
Mine does this quite a bit, I'd say it's worse when it's running a CE. then it improves quite a bit once it's a national release.
But it never goes away completely, of course it seem to do it the most with HD content, as it requires more processing power & HD I/O's.
It used to be really bad, like not even when you'd pause & restart a program. But all the time it was off so bad I'd have to compensate /w my receiver & then it'd still drift from time to time.
That seems to have gone away for the most part with the current releases, and only seems to consistently remain with TNT HD, but I have gathered in my limited reading of that problem that it's a station thing.
I just got my HR20-700 installed today. Initially my DD via optical cable into my Harman Kardon receiver worked. I left the house for a few hours and came back and noticed that any station that brodcast in DD would not have audio. I switched to no DD on the HR20 and then I could hear the PCM signal fine. I then read that if you switch off the receiver and then back on that will re-sync the audio and sure enough, after power cycling the receiver, I could hear DD again.
I've been searching this subject online and many receivers are having the same issue. The comon thread is the HR20. I've never had any issues with DD over my Optical cable before using my DVD player or HR10-250.
Looks like a bug with the HR20. Nothing else has caused my receiver to do this.
CCarncross
09-08-07, 06:40 AM
TreyS, 9 posts, and 6 are the exact same thing in 6 different threads. You just had it installed, there is a good chance you just might have a bad HR20, its not a BUG in the HR20, more likely just a bad DD chip or marginal optical output on your box, call and have it replaced b4 you fill up the drive and come back complaining you'll lose all your recordings if you send it back in a few weeks. I had a friend who had the DD output go haywire on his 1st box. He's very happy with his replacement HR20.
Quick Update!
Sammy e-mailed, they were able to reproduce the problem & have sent it to the R&D Dept. for a 'countermeasure'.
They will also be testing this on the latest series as well.
They hope to have answers tomorrow.
So I'll post back as soon as I hear anything on an update.
Thx all.
peytonb
09-10-07, 08:45 PM
I have a new HR20-700 and I have seen this issue two times in the past week. I am using the optical out of the HR20 and a Yamaha SS receiver. I can't believe that this many HR20's are bad out of the box. Sounds more like an HR20 issue. My HR10-250 never exhibited this issue in 2 years.
I have never used nor tested the HR10-250, TiVo God rest it's dole in DirecTV Heaven :(
I can however attest to the fact that it sure seems like an HR20 issue, especially when it varries how much & how long the delay is, as well as sometimes barely doing it and other times it's horrible.
I can't help but think that DirecTV wanted to implement the DD more true to standard , or maybe take advantage of more features in the engineering guidelines.
Therefore causing more receivers to stress over the signal, but then again we allready have another user in here who's attested to using E* & the CableCo's HD DVR boxes, all with the same issue on his HT-Q70.
I have also tested my HR20 on a friends receiver, with no issues.
Seems to really point to the Receiver & not the box.
Have you done any testing of your own? Other HD Receivers /w DD on & not PCM, check that on your HR10-250.
Have you tested your HR20 on another receiver? Take it down to a BigBox store if you don't have access to one.
Let us know what happens!
BTW. What is the exact model of that Yamaha, and what year is it?
TigerDriver
10-10-07, 03:21 PM
It looks like the Home Theater box to me also. As CCarncross says, when you are switching channels on the HR20, you interrupt the DD audio stream and when it starts up again it is probably in the middle of an audio "frame". Your Home Theater box is having problems getting sync on the "broken" bitstream.
I have a Onkyo TXSR705 and run DD off all the D* receivers listed in my signature below; I get Hi-Def via HDMI and SD via optical. I get abnormal sound delays only on the HR20 whenever I do anything that interrupts the DD stream (e.g., channel change, FF, RW, SLIP). To give you an example, after using the 30-second slip feature, the progress bar disappears long before sound is restored.
The performance of Dolby decoders found in AV equipment must meet Dolby specs in order to use the Dolby name and/or logo. Since the HR20 doesn't actually decode Dolby Digital, but merely picks it out the broadband signal and passes it along to a downstream decoder (via HDMI, Optical, etc), its products don't require Dolby certification.
Since the Dolby Digital bit stream is transmitted synchronously, and because establishment pr re-establishment of synchronization is neither trivial nor time-predictable, it is implicitly the HR20's responsibility not simply to stop (or botch) the bitstream in the middle of a frame. Accordinlgy, it's the HR20's job to buffer at least one frame to make certain that loss of frame sync doesn't occur at the receiver. IOW, the codec will always has at least one complete, well-formed frame on hand in case transmission is interrupted (by channel change, FF, RW, etc.). When an interruption occurs, the codec then sends the current (buffered) frame, then starts sending vacuous (empty) SYN frames, whose sole purpose is to maintain sync with downstream decoders until the data again becomes available for the stream. (Note: one Dolby frame contains 1,536 PCM samples, so the HR20 must be holding its breath for a VERY long time to induce the length of delay that I'm experiencing.)
If we're lucky, the relatively simple pick-'n-pass code in the HR20 resides in hardware whose firmware can be updated. If not, the fix will have to happen during manufacture.
I have a Onkyo TXSR705 and run DD off all the D* receivers listed in my signature below; I get Hi-Def via HDMI and SD via optical. I get abnormal sound delays only on the HR20 whenever I do anything that interrupts the DD stream (e.g., channel change, FF, RW, SLIP). To give you an example, after using the 30-second slip feature, the progress bar disappears long before sound is restored.
The performance of Dolby decoders found in AV equipment must meet Dolby specs in order to use the Dolby name and/or logo. Since the HR20 doesn't actually decode Dolby Digital, but merely picks it out the broadband signal and passes it along to a downstream decoder (via HDMI, Optical, etc), its products don't require Dolby certification.
Since the Dolby Digital bit stream is transmitted synchronously, and because establishment for re-establishment of synchronization is neither trivial nor time-predictable, it is implicitly the HR20's responsibility not simply to stop (or botch) the bitstream in the middle of a frame. Accordinlgy, it's the HR20's job to buffer at least one frame to make certain that loss of frame sync doesn't occur at the receiver. IOW, the codec will always has at least one complete, well-formed frame on hand in case transmission is interrupted (by channel change, FF, RW, etc.). When an interruption occurs, the codec then sends the current (buffered) frame, then starts sending vacuous (empty) SYN frames, whose sole purpose is to maintain sync with downstream decoders until the data again becomes available for the stream. (Note: one Dolby frame contains 1,536 PCM samples, so the HR20 must be holding its breath for a VERY long time to induce the length of delay that I'm experiencing.)
If we're lucky, the relatively simple pick-'n-pass code in the HR20 resides in hardware whose firmware can be updated. If not, the fix will have to happen during manufacture.
Awesome info, thx!!
However I have seen over at AVS that many of the 805's have LipSynch issues that can't be corrected. IE. It's got a built in processing delay that can't be shut off.
I know it's a separate issue, but I also know that some models of the Pioneer's & some of the Yamaha's have also had the BitStream Pick-Up delay as yours does & mine does. I know with the Yamaha's it was a bad DAC, not sure on the Pioneer's.
I'm wondering with yours if you just got a bad unit.
Do you do any live recordings on it?
In fact my current round with Samsung is they are taking far to long to get the issue resolved. So I gave them a choice, replace it or refund it.
So they said sure, so I'm going to go buy myself an Onkyo if the lady of the house will let me. :D
It's going to be an HTIB though for now, as that's all I can afford, it has to be between $350-$400. At a later time though, I'll start replacing the speakers & the sub. Then the A/V receiver itself when I'm ready to go TrueHD Audio & 7.1.
I definately can't do that with a Samsung though, at least it'll be harder with less choices due to it's paltry 3 Ohm speakers.
TigerDriver
10-11-07, 10:42 AM
Awesome info, thx!!
Do you do any live recordings on it?
What do you mean live recordings?
BTW, be careful not to conflate these two issues: lip-sync and recapture of the DD bitstream after interruption. The latter is far more complicated than the former.
It's clear to me that, by definition, the long bitstream-resync time is a fault in the HR20, because (a) it happens only on my HR20, and (b) Dolby decoder certification specifies a short resync period.
As DACs are not frame-based, there is no related "stream recapture" or lip-sysnc issues. Problems in DAC's usually result in very strange sounds (including silence) emerging from the AV system.
Jerry Lundegaard
10-11-07, 12:13 PM
On the general topic of the Optical Audio output ... has anyone else noticed that their optical out was always on even when the receiver was shut off and in standby mode?
One CSR told me that was the way it was intended to work and another said it was a defect. I can't imagine why anyone would intentionally design any kind of audio/video equipment so that the optical out was always on but given all the issues that have surfaced with the HR20 I guess I would not be completely surprised by that either.
TigerDriver
10-11-07, 12:58 PM
Quick Update!
Sammy e-mailed, they were able to reproduce the problem & have sent it to the R&D Dept. for a 'countermeasure'.
Who is "they" and "Sammy"?
Who is "they" and "Sammy"?
They..
Refers to my engineering contact @ Samsung's USA Headquarters & Samsung in general.
I have been e-mailing him back & forth for over a month now & he was going to send an HT-Q70 home with one of their employees for the weekend, who has an HR-20 at home to do some testing on the unit.
This way they could see if the problem was reproducible with their equipment.
He (The Samsung Engineer) had given instructions to the (Samsung) employee doing the testing on how I was able to replicate the problem on my end.
When the Samsung employee returned the following Monday with his/her test results, it showed the employee was able to reproduce the problem with consistency.
My Samsung engineer contact e-mailed me this news & told me he was going to be sending their newest 'HT-X' series home with the same employee to see if the problem afflicted the new units as well.
The Samsung engineer discovered through the additional test results with the new model series from '07/'08 that it did not exhibit the same problem.
Therefore he was going to send this issue on to the R&D dept. which I later found out is in Korea.
Sammy...
Refers to Samsung, It's an abbreviation that is often coined in the AVS & HTSpot forums. Sammy, Mitsu, Panny, etc... It saves typing their long names over & over & over.
The same reason everyone here types DTV, or HR20, or any number of other abbreviations to shorten the whole thing down.
In a nutshell I ended up requesting a refund since the R&D dept was on vacation a lot and in general not being very responsive. Especially when he started talking about them not having access to an HR20 in Korea, and they might not be able to reproduce the problem, etc.. etc...
So I just bailed out.
They are currently in the loooong slooooow process of getting me a refund check issued for my full purchase price.
Then I'm off to buy an Onkyo HT-SR750 or HT-SR800 depending on what my budget allows at that time. Then down the road I'll slowly start replacing components to upgrade it as my budget allows.
I just recieved my HR20 today and the thing works great.....EXCEPT this stinking Dolby Digital issue that's been discovered. As other people observed, the sound take ~30 seconds to begin after switching tuners, pausing, ffwd, rwd, etc.
I also have a Samsung (HT-TQ85) and the DD worked great on my HR10-250 receiver. I really hope a fix is found. I'm already missing my dual-buffers!
J_C
TigerDriver
11-02-07, 09:12 AM
I just recieved my HR20 today and the thing works great.....EXCEPT this stinking Dolby Digital issue that's been discovered. As other people observed, the sound take ~30 seconds to begin after switching tuners, pausing, ffwd, rwd, etc.
I also have a Samsung (HT-TQ85) and the DD worked great on my HR10-250 receiver. I really hope a fix is found. I'm already missing my dual-buffers!
J_C
Are you using HDMI or optical for your DD?
Are you using HDMI or optical for your DD?
I'm using Optical. Also had the same configuration on my HR10-250, prior to upgrading.
newlions
11-02-07, 01:41 PM
I'll just add that this also happens with my Samsung HT-Q40.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=93318
I'll just add that this also happens with my Samsung HT-Q40.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=93318
Looks like our options are:
a) disable DD
b) get a new stereo receiver (although still unsure what I'd have to look for)
c) live with it.....for now
This is frustrating since DD did work on my HR10-250 with no issues. Is there any chance this is something that could be fixed with a firmware patch to the HR20? Has anyone even attempted calling DirectTV?
I get a delay coming out of pause etc, but not any where near 30 seconds. I just hit 6 seconds back twice and it's OK. Onkyo 705.
TigerDriver
11-03-07, 09:57 AM
Looks like our options are:
This is frustrating since DD did work on my HR10-250 with no issues. Is there any chance this is something that could be fixed with a firmware patch to the HR20? Has anyone even attempted calling DirectTV?
There are many reports here and other forums about Dolby Digial audio on the HR20 exhibiting an extremely annoying behavior; specifically: after any form of program disruption (FF, RW, SLIP, etc), 10-30 seconds elapse before sound returns. (My HR20 seems somewhere to 10 seconds, but still maddening.)
About an hour ago I received via FEDEX a Dolby DM100 Bitstream Analyzer (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/145_DM100_02.Manual.pdf) from an ex-colleague who is a sometimes DSP consultant for Dolby Labs.
This is a Dolby pass-through gadget that gets installed between the signal source (my HR20-100) and signal destination (my Onkyo TS-XR805 AV receiver). It not only works as a monitor to analyze the Dolby signal coming out of the source, but also as a signal generator.
As a monitor, it provides detailed error-analysis of the DD stream; in addition (and very cool), it also enables the operator (yours truly) to flip certain control bits in the stream to judge the affects on the downstream AVI equipment.
As a generator, it enables me to send various pathologically signals to my Onkyo to see how/whether it handles defective data streams.
I have to ship the analyzer back Monday, and, based upon the manual, the learning curve is steep. IOW, I've got my work cut out for me.
I'll probably post my results sometime Monday. Film at 11.
There are many reports here and other forums about Dolby Digial audio on the HR20 exhibiting an extremely annoying behavior; specifically: after any form of program disruption (FF, RW, SLIP, etc), 10-30 seconds elapse before sound returns. (My HR20 seems somewhere to 10 seconds, but still maddening.)
About an hour ago I received via FEDEX a Dolby DM100 Bitstream Analyzer (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/145_DM100_02.Manual.pdf) from an ex-colleague who is a sometimes DSP consultant for Dolby Labs.
This is a Dolby pass-through gadget that gets installed between the signal source (my HR20-100) and signal destination (my Onkyo TS-XR805 AV receiver). It not only works as a monitor to analyze the Dolby signal coming out of the source, but also as a signal generator.
As a monitor, it provides detailed error-analysis of the DD stream; in addition (and very cool), it also enables the operator (yours truly) to flip certain control bits in the stream to judge the affects on the downstream AVI equipment.
As a generator, it enables me to send various pathologically signals to my Onkyo to see how/whether it handles defective data streams.
I have to ship the analyzer back Monday, and, based upon the manual, the learning curve is steep. IOW, I've got my work cut out for me.
I'll probably post my results sometime Monday. Film at 11.
Wow! Sounds like a cool gadget. Look forward to your results.
TigerDriver
11-10-07, 11:47 AM
There are many reports here and other forums about Dolby Digial audio on the HR20 exhibiting an extremely annoying behavior; specifically: after any form of program disruption (FF, RW, SLIP, etc), 10-30 seconds elapse before sound returns. (My HR20 seems somewhere to 10 seconds, but still maddening.)
About an hour ago I received via FEDEX a Dolby DM100 Bitstream Analyzer (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/145_DM100_02.Manual.pdf) from an ex-colleague who is a sometimes DSP consultant for Dolby Labs.
This is a Dolby pass-through gadget that gets installed between the signal source (my HR20-100) and signal destination (my Onkyo TS-XR805 AV receiver). It not only works as a monitor to analyze the Dolby signal coming out of the source, but also as a signal generator.
As a monitor, it provides detailed error-analysis of the DD stream; in addition (and very cool), it also enables the operator (yours truly) to flip certain control bits in the stream to judge the affects on the downstream AVI equipment.
As a generator, it enables me to send various pathologically signals to my Onkyo to see how/whether it handles defective data streams.
I have to ship the analyzer back Monday, and, based upon the manual, the learning curve is steep. IOW, I've got my work cut out for me.
I'll probably post my results sometime Monday. Film at 11.
UPDATE
I missed my projected date horribly because l very quickly discovered that the problem is complicated by the HR-20's implementation of HDMI. Since I don't have an architectural diagram of the HR20 hardware, I'm having to infer from experimentation how several individually complicated things function.
The good new is that my friend extended the loan of his Dolby tester, so I've got it for a couple more weeks (at least).
Here's some preliminary thoughts:
I'm 90% certain that the HR20 simply shuts off the DD data stream during program disruption. When the DD data stream resumes after the disruption, there's a restart time-cost on the HR20 and on the AV receiver. So the amount of audio delay you experiences is largely due to the amount of time required for your receiver to resynchronize with the DD stream. However, simply cutting off the DD stream in this manner is an implementation bug (I'll explain in a later post ).
If the HR20 happens to be connected to the AV receiver via HDMI there can be additional side effects. Keep in mind that the HDMI source device (HR20) actually encodes a composite signal and wraps (encapsulates) it in a point-to-point software transport protocol. The HDMI sink device (i.e., the AV receiver) unwraps the HDMI-encoded signal, decodes it, and outputs the recovered composite signal for subsequent digitals signal processing such as DD. So there are restart costs on the HDMI interface when the DD stream is simply shut off.
As I say, there are preliminary results and I'm testing with a single copy of the HR20, and with a specific receiver (Onkyo) whose reaction/recovery time to these events is unknown and, for me at least, unquantifiable.
If your AV receiver has an HDMI indicator on the panel, AND you're connected via HDMI, please let me know if the indicator blinks/extinguishes during program disruption(FF, RW, SLIP, etc).
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