HR20 loses Tuner 1

[kenb123]

Need some help. Upgarded service - they put in a new 5 LNB and two WB68 switches, and added two HR20-700s.

3 times in a week the HR20s lose Tuner 1 - go to menu under Signal Strength and it says Searching for Satellite on Tuner 1. Let it sit and nothing - press red reset and boom it's back.

Have an HR10-250, a couple of the Direct TIVOs, an H20, and a couple of R10s - none of them have any problem.

Had a tech come out - he tested the lines, trimmed a few, and replaced the splitters.

We went out of town for a few days - came back and guess what - both HR20s lost Tuner 1 again.

Have another tech coming out - any ideas? My wife doesn't want to lose her recorded shows. My feeling is that if it is a bad receiver what are the chances that 2 of them are bad - such that they always fail at the same time? That makes no sense. To me it must be something else.

When they did the install they put in two new WB68 switches - we needed 13 lines and he didn't want to put in a third so they told him to use 4 splitters on the lines coming from the dish going into to the multi switch - leaving all 8 outputs on both switch available. Our old install had four out of one going into the second.

The second guy swapped out those splitters.

When I spoke to a Direct Tv tech he said it sounded like a voltage problem to him - and he didn't like the idea of the splitters.

Help please!!

[Earl Bonovich]

Switch the two HR20's... and see if the problem continues in the new location.

As for 13 lines... you may want to consider purchasing the powered Zinwell 16 port switch.

The splitter technique works just fine if it is installed correctly... make sure that they are DC passing only on ONE leg of the spilters, and all those legs connect to the same switch.

It does sound like a voltage issue, since you are not having consistant issues.
My guess, is if you have no signal on ONE of those transponders (losing signal), but then if you go to one of the other boxes and pick the same transponder... then you will start to get a signal.

Another option is to install a Sonora Signal locker (that would connect between the dish and your splitters)

[kenb123]

hh
Switch the two HR20's... and see if the problem continues in the new location.

Do you mean move one of the HR20s to a completely different room? If this was a completely new install I think that makes sense - but in this case one of the new HR20s is using the exact same two RG6 lines that the HR10-250 was using in that same room. The other one is using the same two lines that the Direct TIVO that it replaced was using. The only new wires that were added were to the rooms that we relocated the receivers to that got replaced by the HR20.

Both HR20s go out at the same time. So to me that rules out the cables after the switch and the recevier. It has to be something at the switch or further back.
As for 13 lines... you may want to consider purchasing the powered Zinwell 16 port switch.

Is that something I should have to pay for - or should Diretc tV provide that?

The splitter technique works just fine if it is installed correctly... make sure that they are DC passing only on ONE leg of the spilters, and all those legs connect to the same switch.

It does sound like a voltage issue, since you are not having consistant issues.
My guess, is if you have no signal on ONE of those transponders (losing signal), but then if you go to one of the other boxes and pick the same transponder... then you will start to get a signal.

I'll pass your suggestion on about the splitters. Other boxes in teh house were being used and we still lost Tuner 1 on the HR20s

Thanks for the input,

Another option is to install a Sonora Signal locker (that would connect between the dish and your splitters)

[veryoldschool]

With 13 coax feeds I'd think this would be a good thing: "Another option is to install a Sonora Signal locker (that would connect between the dish and your splitters)"

[kenb123]

As with the Powered Zinwell 16, is the Sonora Signal Locker something I should be paying for?

[veryoldschool]

As with the Powered Zinwell 16, is the Sonora Signal Locker something I should be paying for?
The Zinwell WB 616 is about $130.
The Sonora is about $60.
You will need to call and see if D* will give your credit.

[Earl Bonovich]

You have a pretty extensive setup there.....
Far above and beyond the average install...

You will probably have better luck spending the few dollars on the Zinwell switch, or the Sonora Locker... and getting credit for it, then trying to get DirecTV to purchase it.

[kenb123]

You have a pretty extensive setup there.....
Far above and beyond the average install...

You will probably have better luck spending the few dollars on the Zinwell switch, or the Sonora Locker... and getting credit for it, then trying to get DirecTV to purchase it.

Thanks for the prompt and knowledgeable responses.

Before I purchase anything I was looking for input - as when teh tech comes out in a few days I'm sure they are going to push to swap out the boxes. Then I'm sure they will be back in a week when the problem still happens.

So bottom line the problem as described (both HR20s - and only the HR20s, not the HR10-250 or the Direct Tivos, lose Tuner 1 at the same time) is caused by voltage loss around the switch which the Signal Locker or Powered 16 would solve?

Do you think it would still happen if they used three WB68s, instead of splitting the signal into 2 WB68s like they are doing now?

[Earl Bonovich]

Got a PM, from someone that pointed out a flaw in my original reply.

I didn't account for the fact that you are using two passive switches...
And with single DC passing on those splitters, you could run into a problem.

Using a third WB68... will probably help, but it may not ultimately solve the solution, as you are now going to be powering TWO switches and the dish, off a input designed only to power the dish... (hence one of the problems with passive switches).

The appropriate solution is using one of the powered methods:
Zinwell 16 port, or the Sonora Signal Locker....

[veryoldschool]

Got a PM, from someone that pointed out a flaw in my original reply.

I didn't account for the fact that you are using two passive switches...
And with single DC passing on those splitters, you could run into a problem.

Using a third WB68... will probably help, but it may not ultimately solve the solution, as you are now going to be powering TWO switches and the dish, off a input designed only to power the dish... (hence one of the problems with passive switches).

The appropriate solution is using one of the powered methods:
Zinwell 16 port, or the Sonora Signal Locker....
I agree as the more passive multi-switches in line the more drop in both power to drive the LNBs [in the dish] and the signals coming from the dish.
The Zinwell WB616 is basically two WB68 with internal splitters and the Sonora locker.
This setup may not fix a bad tuner in the HR-20, it will make sure the signals are there for each tuner. If all of the tuners are tuned to the same channel, the power from the dish will be divided by the total number of tuners [13 or 1/13 of the power] so any loss in either powering the dish or in the signal coming from the dish could be significant.
If you do find that you have low signal levels then the next step is to add some amps into the mix.
We're here to help and you sure don't have a "standard" installation, so you may need to add a bit more than "normal" to have it all work the way you want [well].

[kenb123]

Got a PM, from someone that pointed out a flaw in my original reply.

I didn't account for the fact that you are using two passive switches...
And with single DC passing on those splitters, you could run into a problem.

Using a third WB68... will probably help, but it may not ultimately solve the solution, as you are now going to be powering TWO switches and the dish, off a input designed only to power the dish... (hence one of the problems with passive switches).

The appropriate solution is using one of the powered methods:
Zinwell 16 port, or the Sonora Signal Locker....

Thanks very much - they are coming on Thursday and I will stand firm that anything they want to do other than a Zinwell 16 port powered, or a Sonora Signal Locker is unacceptable and will not solve the problem.

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks very much - they are coming on Thursday and I will stand firm that anything they want to do other than a Zinwell 16 port powered, or a Sonora Signal Locker is unacceptable and will not solve the problem.

Well... I would try to be in contact with them before that...
As neither of those items are standard items for an intaller to carry on their truck....

I have only heard of a few installers that have installed Zinwell 16 ports, and those were normally via prior arrangements..

I haven't heard of anyone that has gotten a Sonora Signal Locker from an installer.

[kenb123]

Thanks "Very Old School" for the other post - Iwas typing before I saw yours.

And yes Earl I will call Direct Tv and run this past them.

Are the HR20s just badly made or really sensitive - from the standpoint that these are the only two out of my 8 receivers that have a problem. On my HR10-250 I still have both tuners going fine when the HR20s lose Tuner 1.

[veryoldschool]

Are the HR20s just badly made or really sensitive - from the standpoint that these are the only two out of my 8 receivers that have a problem. On my HR10-250 I still have both tuners going fine when the HR20s lose Tuner 1.
I think it's safe to say that the build quality isn't "stellar" with these. I sure wouldn't try to use them for a NASA mission straight out of the box.
Lost tuners has been more of a tuner #2 issue than tuner #1, but doesn't mean it can't happen.
Since you have so much hardware on your account, I'd figure when calling D*, you would need to get beyond the first level of CSR to get to someone that could help you out. Most likely getting the switches from D* won't be the way to go, but having them credit your account for your costs has been done before, so I'd be thinking of going that way.
I don't think many D* CSRs have any idea of how to deal with more that about four receivers on an account. Something like what you have I'd guess is more for someone that has had a truly professional installer that really knows how to work with a complex system.
We're here to help and there are some very good installers here that can give you some help also.

[Canis Lupus]

kenb - definitely follow Earl's advice here. You want to make sure you have your wishes known with D*, even if they can't actually make it happen with one of their installers in terms of hardware.
This way you can try to time the installer appointment along with any hardware you may have to provide, including the switch and/or signal locker, and you'll save yourself the headache of multiple appointments etc.
Plus you're on file with D* with your needs, so you can ask for credit for items purchased by you, and/or be provided with proper support if something goes haywire.

Well... I would try to be in contact with them before that...
As neither of those items are standard items for an intaller to carry on their truck....

I have only heard of a few installers that have installed Zinwell 16 ports, and those were normally via prior arrangements..

I haven't heard of anyone that has gotten a Sonora Signal Locker from an installer.

[JonW]

I had a problem like this and DirecTv did quite a bit of troubleshooting on it, the tech even claimed a temporary loss of signal could result in this kind of failure, but what eventually solved the issue once and for all was swapping out the box.

It wasn't all a waste. I got my dish mounted more firmly with monopoles supporting it, a bigger multi-switch, and the wiring/connectors cleaned up, I just wasn't too happy when the tech wiped out 3 months of programming because he thought it would be a good idea to try factory resetting the box without asking me.

[kenb123]

I had a problem like this and DirecTv did quite a bit of troubleshooting on it, the tech even claimed a temporary loss of signal could result in this kind of failure, but what eventually solved the issue once and for all was swapping out the box.

It wasn't all a waste. I got my dish mounted more firmly with monopoles supporting it, a bigger multi-switch, and the wiring/connectors cleaned up, I just wasn't too happy when the tech wiped out 3 months of programming because he thought it would be a good idea to try factory resetting the box without asking me.

If I only had one HR20 failing I would definitely be having them swap out the box. But logic says when both HR20s fail at the same time to me that doesn't equal box failure. But the fact that none of my other receivers are failing, including an HR10-250, still in the back of my mind says maybe I do have two bad boxes.

[JonW]

If I only had one HR20 failing I would definitely be having them swap out the box. But logic says when both HR20s fail at the same time to me that doesn't equal box failure. But the fact that none of my other receivers are failing, including an HR10-250, still in the back of my mind says maybe I do have two bad boxes.

If you got both HR20's at the same time from the same batch it could very well mean both boxes are failing.

But if it's true that the HR20 doesn't handle signal dropout very well, it could just as well be something flaky in your wiring, dish mounting, or setup.

Have you noticed any trend of this happening after a rain storm or a period of high winds?

[kenb123]

I came home last night and they are locked up again. I can select the "Previous Channel" button and it will show that channel - but if I try changing to any channel I get the 771 - searching. I went to the other receivers in the house and changed channels on them, but the HR20 is still hosed up. And when I went through the menus they were really slow and missing stuff and the "back button" was the only way to get out of the hung menu. But when I could get there - still Tuner 1 not getting anything on any satellite.

[kenb123]

Ok I need to correct my last post - last night for the first time I only lost one of the two HR20s. I thought it was both since the blue light ring was on (we had it turned off so I assumed it was a reboot). It turns out that we got the 18xa software upgrade so that's why the blue light was on.

Since I got the software upgrade that killed my plan of leaving the receiver :hung up" until the tech comes tomorrow.

[Earl Bonovich]

I HIGHLY believe you are having multiswitch issues....

Unless the intaller brings a Zinwell 16 port, or the sonora Signal locker... I think you are still going to have the same problems after he leaves.

[kenb123]

Ok - so I was a little mistaken - it appears that after the first tech came out and changed the splitter and clipped a few fittings, that only one of the two HR20s is now failing. So tech came out yesterday at 6:30 (appt was between 12-4). The unit was failing when he got there - tuner 1 no signal. He took the cable from Tuner 2 and moved it to Tuner 1 and still no tuner 1. He checked the cables with a meter and said the signal was great. It defintely was the receiver.

So the fact that only one of the two is failing that makes sense. Could it be that a bad fitting and/or splitter was causing the other one to fail (coincidentally at the same time).

So of course he says he has no receivers left on his truck, so he puts new fitings on and new B band things, forces a download (wiping out my shows) and leaves.

This morning - that receiver failed again. Called Direct TV - they are going to send me a new receiver and credit me for a couple of addl recvr charges (she tried to give me $5 off for 6 months but couldn't becuase the lady did that yesterday when I complained about the tech being so late.

So the saga continues.

Do you believe that maybe I don't need the powered multiswitch after all???

[dsm]

Ok - so I was a little mistaken - it appears that after the first tech came out and changed the splitter and clipped a few fittings, that only one of the two HR20s is now failing. So tech came out yesterday at 6:30 (appt was between 12-4). The unit was failing when he got there - tuner 1 no signal. He took the cable from Tuner 2 and moved it to Tuner 1 and still no tuner 1. He checked the cables with a meter and said the signal was great. It defintely was the receiver.

So the fact that only one of the two is failing that makes sense. Could it be that a bad fitting and/or splitter was causing the other one to fail (coincidentally at the same time).

So of course he says he has no receivers left on his truck, so he puts new fitings on and new B band things, forces a download (wiping out my shows) and leaves.

This morning - that receiver failed again. Called Direct TV - they are going to send me a new receiver and credit me for a couple of addl recvr charges (she tried to give me $5 off for 6 months but couldn't becuase the lady did that yesterday when I complained about the tech being so late.

So the saga continues.

Do you believe that maybe I don't need the powered multiswitch after all???

I had a similar problem a few months back and the repair guy fixed it by replacing all my cables from the dish. The prior installer had done a hack job.

Anyhow that doesn't seem to be your problem here, but I wanted to mention that the assignment of Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 is very confusing. I think tuner 1 vs 2 gets assigned on boot so don't assume the 1st sat input is tuner 1. Ask long as you keep this in mind when you test combinations, you can draw valid conclusions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I was told at the time I was having trouble and it was consistent with what I saw.

So, for example, you said:

"He took the cable from Tuner 2 and moved it to Tuner 1 and still no tuner 1."

How does he know he did this? I'm pretty sure it requires more than one test of cable connections.

-steve

[rirwin1983]

the poster is just using the wrong words, sounds like the tech swaped which sat 1 or 2 inputs the cables were hooked up to. At the very early stages of the HR20 being out instead of saying Sat In 2 Searching for Signal, it would say tuner 2, it dident last past a software update.

[veryoldschool]

I had a similar problem a few months back and the repair guy fixed it by replacing all my cables from the dish. The prior installer had done a hack job.

Anyhow that doesn't seem to be your problem here, but I wanted to mention that the assignment of Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 is very confusing. I think tuner 1 vs 2 gets assigned on boot so don't assume the 1st sat input is tuner 1. Ask long as you keep this in mind when you test combinations, you can draw valid conclusions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I was told at the time I was having trouble and it was consistent with what I saw.

So, for example, you said:

"He took the cable from Tuner 2 and moved it to Tuner 1 and still no tuner 1."

How does he know he did this? I'm pretty sure it requires more than one test of cable connections.

-steve
Actually, when I disconnect SAT #1, I get searching for signal tuner #1 and if I disconnect SAT #2, I get tuner #2 searching. It's a quick way to see which tuner you're watching.

[dsm]

Actually, when I disconnect SAT #1, I get searching for signal tuner #1 and if I disconnect SAT #2, I get tuner #2 searching. It's a quick way to see which tuner you're watching.

I'm willing to defer to a most any of you guys :-), but what I was told was that if the box boots and only one of the lines is working it will be designated tuner #1. It did seem to work that way from what I recall. So with my marginal lines at the time every time I restarted it could be either way.

-steve

BTW Is dbstalk ready for a server upgrade or what? It seems "too busy" all the time.

[veryoldschool]

I'm willing to defer to a most any of you guys :-), but what I was told was that if the box boots and only one of the lines is working it will be designated tuner #1. It did seem to work that way from what I recall. So with my marginal lines at the time every time I restarted it could be either way.
-steve
BTW Is dbstalk ready for a server upgrade or what? It seems "too busy" all the time.
I have never booted up mine with just SAT #2 connected, so maybe it will work that way.
I'd figure that if SAT #1 wasn't connected, then tuner #1 would be inactive and Tuner #2 would be the only active tuner. This could be proved by going into the setup menu and checking the active tuners after booting it this way. FWIW

[Bigfoot365]

I have the same problem (losing tuner 1 after a period of time) but with a much simpler setup. I only have a Zinwell 6x8 multiswitch (installed by D*) between the dish and HR20. I have 97-100 signal strength on most 101 transponders until the tuner goes, then it as at 0. I even tried moving the cable from the other sat input (that was working with 97+ signal strength) and still had 0 on the non-working tuner.

Strange that a reset always fixes the problem for hours at a time - it seems that if it were a heat issue a simple reset would not correct the problem. I guess it is time to call D* to get another box. I've only had this one for 4 days.

[rsuch]

I have the same problem (losing tuner 1 after a period of time) but with a much simpler setup. I only have a Zinwell 6x8 multiswitch (installed by D*) between the dish and HR20. I have 97-100 signal strength on most 101 transponders until the tuner goes, then it as at 0. I even tried moving the cable from the other sat input (that was working with 97+ signal strength) and still had 0 on the non-working tuner.

Strange that a reset always fixes the problem for hours at a time - it seems that if it were a heat issue a simple reset would not correct the problem. I guess it is time to call D* to get another box. I've only had this one for 4 days.

I am having the same problem you are describing. I have contacted D* and they have sent two replacements thus far, with a third on the way. Hopefully the third receiver is the charm. I have another HR20-700 and it has worked beautifully since I installed it four months ago. I also have one of the Tivo-based receivers (HR10-250) and I have never had any issues with it. I have swapped the receivers out of multiple locations throughout my house and I am convinced it's a receiver issue. I am just baffled that I can't get another HR20-700 receiver that works properly. I have wondered if I am having a switch issue, so if this third receiver doesn't work properly, I am definitely getting a technician to assist me.

[sobiloff]

Heh, glad I checked here. I've started having the same problem with my HR20--I keep getting message 771 (no signal on input 1) every couple of days. If I reboot it works fine for a day or two, then starts having problems again. Very frustrating.

I had a tech out on Monday and he replaced the flat cables that get the satellite wiring through the doorway (I'm in an apartment, so no new holes allowed in the walls). I thought that might solve the problem, but it's back after a couple of days.

If they have to swap boxes, is there any way to save my shows?

[MrMolding]

I thought I'd add that I have the same problem. I loose Tuner 1 after a few days and have to reboot to get it back. Just digging into the the posts to see what people have experienced.

[kenb123]

Well hopefully my issue is finally resolved - after switching receivers 3 times, switching BBabds 3 times, cutting ground wires, trimming fittings - on Saturday they FINALLY replaced my two WB68s with a powered 6x16. Other than audio dropouts, and a rare pixelation - I've been good for almost 4 days now