Should I lose my signal everytime it rains?

[75sides]

I am a new DirecTV customer (about a month) and every single time it has rained this month (4 or 5 times) I lost my signal to the satellite. Is this common? Before I switched I talked to some people who said that they very rarely lose signal. There are no trees nearby to interfere and when I go out to look at the dish, it isn't moving in the wind. Is there something the installer could have done wrong to make my dish more sensitive to rain? If I call customer service will they just tell me that this is common and they can't do anything about it?


Thanks for the info. :)

[ryu]

No you shouldn't. I had the same problem, get your dish aligned.

What is your signal strength when it isn't raining?

[boba]

You are in Fl. so your rains can be brief and heavy. Tell us what you have which dish, how many receivers, what models are they? What are your signal strengths on the satellite(s)?

[Kevin Dupuy]

Which dish do you have, by the way? I rarely lose signal, but maybe twice in a month for two minutes each.

It's possible that your dish may not have a good lock, or maybe a little off on the signal from the sats. The 5-LNB Slimline is really susceptible to that.

[JLucPicard]

75sides,

If this is a dish alignment issue (sounds on the surface like it is), there should be no charge for the realignment within 90 days of the install, so I wouldn't hesitate to call and have it done.

[armophob]

Your signal levels should be in the 80's or higher for each satellite you can get. Check them in the setup menu.

I lose mine in big storms briefly, but usually just before as the thunderstorm clouds block the horizon.

Even lotto loses signal in heavy rain.:)

[toph]

I lose my signal during heavy thunderstorms like we've been having in Tampa. It gets very old, but no one else has the Sunday Ticket, sigh.

[Redlinetire]

I've found that my 5-LNB is much better (if aligned properly) than the 3-LNB I had previously. We get plenty of steady rain and thunderstorms here in Michigan but I lost signal for a total of 5 minutes for the 10 straight days of rain we had a few weeks back. But since it was during a tornado warning, I was in the basement anyway!

I understand the storms in FL may be smaller and more intense but I would still check into the dish alignment. You shouldn't lose signal in an average rainstorm in my experience.

[Herdfan]

One thing to remember is that in FL and other southern locales, the dish is pointed at a much higher elevation that in the north. As a result, it takes less extreme rain to produce rain fade. This makes dish pointing more important than up north.

[cbeckner80]

No you shouldn't. I had the same problem, get your dish aligned.

What is your signal strength when it isn't raining?

I have had the same problem since I had my D* installed. I have two R15's and one HR20.

My signals are over 96% on 101 and 119 and 86% on 110, but I still loose the signal when we have rain, and sometimes even when it doesn't seem that heavy. Based on what I've read in other posts, I shouldn't have a problem with that kind of signal strength. I just live with it and look at something I've recorded.

[donshan]

I have had D* since 1999 and only had three times that it was raining hard enough to cause a loss of signal. In one of them I noticed I lost the signal when the thunderhead cloud hit the path to the satellite some 20 minutes before we got any rain at all.

However, I live in the desert area of SE Washington State where our rains rarely exceed 0.1 inch in an hour and 0.5 inches in a day is exceptional. I mention this because my experience is it is not just any rainstorm that is the problem with D*, but rather it is the intensity of the thunderstorm and rain that is the problem. When we get normal steady rains ( 0.1 inch /hr type), that can last hours, but without thunderstorm activity, we never lose the D* signal.

I think it is those high altitude, severe thunderstorm clouds with intense internal rain and hail that really block the signal. I expect that is common in Florida. I grew up in Texas and know what 'real" thunderstorms are like and tell my wife that I had yet to see a "real" rainstorm here in WA.

Edit: Forgot I had one incident where enough snow stuck to the dish to block it. Brushed it with a long handled push broom and it was back OK right away.

[Stuart Sweet]

Agreed, get your dish repointed right away.

[75sides]

5 LNB dish, HR 20 and 3 regular receivers
(A:222, E:50, T:58)

I waited until the rain was over and ran my signal tests in clear weather.

Signal Strength:
I assume the 0s are bad. Is 77 considered low? Also, my readings for the 99 (b) satellite seem low as well.

101 - Tuner 1
----
96 98 96 0 96 100 95 100
96 100 97 77 97 100 96 100
97 0 96 100 96 100 96 100
96 0 93 100 94 100 95 100

101 - Tuner 2
----
97 97 96 0 97 100 96 100
95 99 96 77 96 100 96 100
96 0 96 100 96 100 95 100
96 0 92 100 93 100 95 100

110 - Tuner 1
----
8=96 10 = 91 12 = 95 , rest N/A

110 - Tuner 2
----
8=96 10 = 88 12 = 95 , rest N/A

119 - Tuner 1
----
N/A until 22, then
100 91 98 96 100 100 100 100 100 0 100

119 - Tuner 2
----
N/A until 22, then
100 91 98 96 100 100 100 100 100 0 100

99 (b) - Tuner 1
----
0 59 0 51 0 53 rest N/A

99 (b) - Tuner 2
----
0 57 0 50 0 57 rest N/A

103 (a) - Tuner 1
----
89 92 91 92 90 94 17=0, rest N/A

103 (a) - Tuner 2
----
91 93 92 93 91 95 17=0, rest N/A

103 (b) Tuner 1
----
All 0 and N/A

103 (b) Tuner 2
----
All 0 and N/A

Thanks for all the responses.

[RobertE]

5 LNB dish, HR 20 and 3 regular receivers
(A:222, E:50, T:58)

I waited until the rain was over and ran my signal tests in clear weather.

Signal Strength:
I assume the 0s are bad. Is 77 considered low? Also, my readings for the 99 (b) satellite seem low as well.

101 - Tuner 1
----
96 98 96 0 96 100 95 100
96 100 97 77 97 100 96 100
97 0 96 100 96 100 96 100
96 0 93 100 94 100 95 100



The 0's and the 77 are for spot beams not aimed at you. From those levels and from the ones I snipped, your getting great signals.

At this end, I'd rule out an alignment issue. I'd look for a connection/cable issue somewhere where moisture may be getting in the lines an causing an issue when it rains. Moisture could also be getting in the LNB as well, causing an issue.

[davring]

75, which channels are you losing? The reason I ask is because your MPG4(HD locals) are far more prone to rain fade. Depending where you are in Florida your HD locals come in from 99 or 103. I live in Laud (99) Tampa/Orlando(103). I am not sure on the rest of the state. If you get yours on 99, the signal is too low.

[75sides]

75, which channels are you losing? The reason I ask is because your MPG4(HD locals) are far more prone to rain fade. Depending where you are in Florida your HD locals come in from 99 or 103. I live in Laud (99) Tampa/Orlando(103). I am not sure on the rest of the state. If you get yours on 99, the signal is too low.

I am in Orlando so it sounds like those are fine.

I lose all of them that I tried at least. Today I lost the big ten network for half of the third quarter of the game I was watching. I get a message that it is trying to locate the satellite.

[armophob]

I just lost mine for 2min if you want to check Fort Pierce weather.

[davring]

I am in Orlando so it sounds like those are fine.

I lose all of them that I tried at least. Today I lost the big ten network for half of the third quarter of the game I was watching. I get a message that it is trying to locate the satellite.

BTN comes from the 101, I believe. It is the hardest to get knocked out by the rain. It must have been a real gully washer. Trust me, I know how hard it can rain in Florida. We lose our signal at times, and on occasson for longer periods, but rarely for more than more than a couple of minutes. I have had D* for many years and have not found it to be a problem. When cable went out because of weather, it was out for hours. After Wilma, (huricane) my neighbors were without their precious cable for two to three weeks, I was up after one pull on the generator.

[Tom Robertson]

RobertE knows of what he writes. You signals are actually quite awesome and balanced across all the Ku satellites (101°, 110°, and 119°) and look very good for 103°. Your problem is almost guaranteed to be something other than dish alignment.

So his analysis of water entering the parts of the system where water shouldn't oughta enter is most likely spot on. Sometimes an LNB cover can be cracked, letting water inside. Loose connectors, loose connections, or cable splits all can ruin a great signal, alas.

Since your install is less than 90 days ago, call DIRECTV. If the first CSR doesn't help, ask for installation support(?). This is not correct.

And welcome to the forums and DIRECTV! :welcome_s

Cheers,
Tom

[davring]

RobertE knows of what he writes. You signals are actually quite awesome and balanced across all the Ku satellites (101°, 110°, and 119°) and look very good for 103°. Your problem is almost guaranteed to be something other than dish alignment.

So his analysis of water entering the parts of the system where water shouldn't oughta enter is most likely spot on. Sometimes an LNB cover can be cracked, letting water inside. Loose connectors, loose connections, or cable splits all can ruin a great signal, alas.

Since your install is less than 90 days ago, call DIRECTV. If the first CSR doesn't help, ask for installation support(?). This is not correct.

And welcome to the forums and DIRECTV! :welcome_s

Cheers,
Tom

Said with time honored eloquence, as always :)

[75sides]

I had a tech come out on Tuesday to take a look at my lines and dish to see if water could be getting into the lines somewhere.

My window was from 1 to 5 on Tuesday. At 5:15 I hadn't heard anything so I called D*. I was told he would be at my house at 5:30. At 6:15 it started to rain and I still hadn't heard from him so I went to the gym (my in-laws were at the house). He showed up sometime after 7 and told them the lines were fine and that I should just expect my signal to drop in the rain. He left his number in case I had any questions.

It rained Tuesday and Wednesday and both days, the signal behaved like I would expect it to. The transponder signals dropped into the 70s, I had the occasional stutter, and on Wednesday I lost signal for about 30 seconds in the worst part of the storm.

Tonight it rained again with about the same intensity as Wednesday. This time, the transponder signals dropped to 0 for every transponder (in multiple rooms) and stayed that way for close to an hour. I called the tech and left him a message but haven't heard back yet.

The behavior I saw tonight definitely does not seem normal based on all the great feedback I have received here (and also on the phone when talking to the D* CSR). If I get in touch with the tech and he tells me it is normal, what should my next course of action be? In my brief history with D* it seems like they don't want to take any responsibilty for the work their installers do (I had a problem with the install and they kept pawning me off on the installation company, even when the installation company wasn't resolving the matter in a way I felt was satisfactory). Is D* going to stick with whatever the tech says? Should I find an independant installer to come doublecheck the lines and dish? Will D* reimburse me if I do this?

Thanks again for all the great info.

[cawgijoe]

I live in the Northern, VA area near Washington DC and we can get some doozy thunderstorms in the summer. I've been with Directv now going on thirteen years and have had very little rain fade problems. It will go out for short periods of time in a heavy rain or once, in a very heavy snow storm. Comes back pretty quickly though.

I would insist Directv come back out again when you are around and check everything out again. Follow the tech around if you can. He should check for cracks in the lnb shields and also whether the connectors are on tight or not.

Make sure you stay on Directv.

Maybe ask if a different tech can come out......

[ziggy29]

Getting in late, but...it depends on what your signal strength is on nice days.

In the last house we owned in Houston, we used to see the reception pixelate badly in light rain oln some channels, and lost in almost any stronger rains. When I checked the signal strength, most of the transponders were in the 50s and 60s and even the spot beam for the locals (usually the strongest) was less than 80.

One day I went up on the roof to see if I could improve it with an adjustment, and after about five minutes of messing with it I was getting 98 or 99 on the spot beam by merely increasing the elevation a tad or two. Checking the other channels which were usually horribly pixelated and with strength in the 50s were in the high 80s or low 90s. After that it took a ridiculously hard rain to completely wipe out the signal.

So in conclusion, check the signal strength in good weather. If most transponders are checking in at the 80s or higher in good weather, maybe the rain is just that heavy. But if it's lower, chances are the dish needs realignment. A properly aligned dish should get 90+ on just about any transponder intended for your consumption in good weather.

[PeaceOfMind]

I have been with Directv since 1994....with the old dish(90-95% signal), when it rained, the signal was lost(tried dish alignments, dish covers...the works). With the new dish(90-95% signal), when it rains, Directv signal is lost(tried dish alignments, calling Directv...the works). Now, when it rains and the Directv signal is lost, I call no one....I either watch the DVR recordings or do some house chores until the rain stops and the Directv signal returns. I learned to take the good with the bad....aka, lets say you really only want to purchase the 30 channels that you really watch...no can do....you must purchase a high price package of 1 or 2 hundren channels that you will never watch, just to get the 30 channels that you wanted in the first place....thus, learn to take the good with the bad....rain fade and the purchase of channels that you will never watch. I still like Directv over their competition. When Directv has tried all that it knows to do and you are still getting rain fade....watch a DVD, DVR, or VCR movie, until the rain stops.

[MIMOTech]

With the 5 LNB dish it takes lots of very heavy rain to loose sigs from the 101 110 and 119 sats. This dish has as much area as my old 3 dish system in one dish. For the KA band there is even more gain, but I find that frequency band has far more loss and will be the first to go in such a heavy rain storm. Alignment is critical, you can have very good signal levels on 101, 110 and 119 and still loose signal if it is not aimed correctly. I have my own meter (Accutrac 3) and my signals on 99b which is what I get my locals on are mostly 100 with one 97 at the lowest. If the aiming for the 99 and 103 sats is perfect you will see the results on 101, 110, 119 as greatly improved fade resistance.

[Cable Lover]

I am a new DirecTV customer (about a month) and every single time it has rained this month (4 or 5 times) I lost my signal to the satellite.


. :)

Now that be jacked up!:eek2:

Switch to cable, no rain fade.

[Steve Robertson]

I notice rain fade a lot more with the slimline dish than whaen I had 3 seperate one's. My signals are just like the OP so i am baffeled as well I guess I need to check connections to make sure they are all ok. I find this to very annoying when it is just a normanl rainstorm I understand big thundershowers but not moderate rain.

[lobo65]

I live in Mississippi, have had DirecTV for years, and the same thing happens to me every time it rains. It's just something I've learned to live with.

[JeffBowser]

That's odd - you have great signal strength. Perhaps you can define your outtages better for us - how often, and for how long ? I know the big boomers that build up on the west coast of Florida are much more intense and frequent than what we get on the east side. Perhaps you are simply getting a string of really dense thunderstorms, and that's the sum total of the issue....

[HIPAR]

I often loose my signals when it rains but I know why. There's a tree limb that gets heavy from the water and sags close to the beam. Usually, it's windy when it's raining exasperating the problem as the limb blows around.

It's not my tree so there's not much I can do about it. The problem won't be as bad in about a month when the leaves drop off.

--- CHAS

[75sides]

It has happened about 4 times in 2 months. When it goes out, the signals from all transponders drop to 0 (for all the receivers in the house) and it goes out for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour). It doesn't happen every time it rains or even everytime there is a heavy rain. I haven't figured out the variable that is causing it to happen. My guess is that it happens when the wind blows the water a certain direction.

Friends of mine in the area don't lose signal for as long and when they do, they are at least getting transponder readings in the low 60s.

That's odd - you have great signal strength. Perhaps you can define your outtages better for us - how often, and for how long ? I know the big boomers that build up on the west coast of Florida are much more intense and frequent than what we get on the east side. Perhaps you are simply getting a string of really dense thunderstorms, and that's the sum total of the issue....

[JeffBowser]

It's not what direction the wind is blowing, it's where the water filled cloud lies. If it is between your dish and the signal, you could lose the signal. At my house, I know when there is a really big boomer over the 'glades. It may be sunny and dry at my house, but a towering thunderstorm SW of me is betweem me and the dish signal. However, if you have friends close by that continue to get a signal when you don't, then definately something else is going on.

[richlife]

It has happened about 4 times in 2 months. When it goes out, the signals from all transponders drop to 0 (for all the receivers in the house) and it goes out for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour). It doesn't happen every time it rains or even everytime there is a heavy rain. I haven't figured out the variable that is causing it to happen. My guess is that it happens when the wind blows the water a certain direction.

Friends of mine in the area don't lose signal for as long and when they do, they are at least getting transponder readings in the low 60s.

Two things: As Tom said, trust RobertE. Those external connections (at the dish and wherever), are they sealed? If not, wait for several really dry days and seal them with 50 year silicon sealer.

Also, "rain fade" has two parts -- one is the rain itself. A really heavy rain can knock you out -- a light rain shouldn't. The other part is cloud cover. Thunderstorms can have cloud depths of 25 miles! That can block your signal even without rain. A normal cloud cover (such as we have in NC today) shouldn't affect you. A combination of cloud and rain falls in between somewhere.

Living in the South and getting summer rain (if we ever get any with this drought!), we definitely have some "rain fade" problems. 4 times in two months for the durations you said doesn't seen all that extreme to me. It's just the time of year and the way of Nature. If you are covered per RobertE and and your external connections are sealed, you've done all you can. Now it's life in the satellite world -- sorry, but like us, grin and bear it. (The worst part is when you get an anticipated recording screwed up.)

[JeffBowser]

S. Florida is weird with the rain. Yesterday we had an intense sunshower. It was raining on the north side of my lawn, but the south side was dry, and it was rather sharply delineated. It's not often the edge of a scattered thunderstorm lies right across your own property.

[richlife]

S. Florida is weird with the rain. Yesterday we had an intense sunshower. It was raining on the north side of my lawn, but the south side was dry, and it was rather sharply delineated. It's not often the edge of a scattered thunderstorm lies right across your own property.

Yeah, seen that a few times, Jeff :rolleyes: Many years ago, we had a back yard that was a level lower than the front. We had a July cloudburst -- in the back. The front was sunny and dry and the backyard was flooded to 6" by the rain.

[JeffBowser]

It's pretty cool to watch. I see it here a lot, but only a couple of time across my own property. Once we were sitting outside at a packed restaurant when one rolled in. We prepared to abandon our meal, until we realized the rain was going to stop at the edge of the property. I toasted that fact with another round of cocktails :lol:

Yeah, seen that a few times, Jeff :rolleyes: Many years ago, we had a back yard that was a level lower than the front. We had a July cloudburst -- in the back. The front was sunny and dry and the backyard was flooded to 6" by the rain.

[ziggy29]

It's not what direction the wind is blowing, it's where the water filled cloud lies. If it is between your dish and the signal, you could lose the signal. At my house, I know when there is a really big boomer over the 'glades. It may be sunny and dry at my house, but a towering thunderstorm SW of me is betweem me and the dish signal. However, if you have friends close by that continue to get a signal when you don't, then definately something else is going on.
I believe this is correct. I've completely lost a signal even when it was sunny overhead. In those cases there were big angry boomers to the south of us. Similarly, I've had torrential downpours where I haven't lost the signal completely, and the weather to the south looked less ominous.

[K4SMX]

You never told us exactly what 5 LNB dish you have. Is it an AT-9 or an AU9-S "Slimline?" Somewhere I saw posted the actual measured gain of the Slimline to be signicantly better than the "Sidecar."

[JeffBowser]

That's an urban myth :p

You never told us exactly what 5 LNB dish you have. Is it an AT-9 or an AU9-S "Slimline?" Somewhere I saw posted the actual measured gain of the Slimline to be signicantly better than the "Sidecar."

[75sides]

Slimline. So is it normal for all the transponders to hit 0 for the duration I am seeing? (up to an hour in at least one case).

You never told us exactly what 5 LNB dish you have. Is it an AT-9 or an AU9-S "Slimline?" Somewhere I saw posted the actual measured gain of the Slimline to be signicantly better than the "Sidecar."

[K4SMX]

That is kind of a long time for your everyday storm, even in FL. I was only out two hours when the eyewall went right over my location during Hurricane Jeanne. (See the avatar!) I have a Slimline up here in the mountains as well as in FL. Look at the weather radar right now for the NC, SC, GA juncture. We're getting ready to get Umberto's wake bigtime - lots of yellow and red. I'll let you know how long I was "Searching for Satellite Signal" in just a couple of hours.....

[guyricardo]

That is kind of a long time for your everyday storm, even in FL. I was only out two hours when the eyewall went right over my location during Hurricane Jeanne. (See the avatar!) I have a Slimline up here in the mountains as well as in FL. Look at the weather radar right now for the NC, SC, GA juncture. We're getting ready to get Umberto's wake bigtime - lots of yellow and red. I'll let you know how long I was "Searching for Satellite Signal" in just a couple of hours.....

Not having signal for long periods after the clouds/rain has passed point to a water seepage issue. If it was just alignment, you would get the signal back almost immediately. I would have the installer come back out and check everything with you there. If you know some tech savvy person, I'd have them check as well.

As an example of how sensitve the connections can be, I had an issue with poor signal after having my place 'professionally' cabled. After backtracing all the connections, I found a few where the center wire hadn't been stripped cleanly, and the little bit of plastic that remained was preventing clean contact. After removing these little burrs signals are almost all in the 90's.

[K4SMX]

That's an urban myth :p
Well that may be true, but these were actual numbers posted with a reference from somewhere. I'm normally pretty suspicious of general claims, but these were highly specific. We should track this down, once and for all. There is also the obvious issue of mechanical construction....

[RD in Fla]

I live in Southwest Florida and lose my signal as frequently as the OP with a Slimline. Just about every late afternoon this week we have had fairly severe thunderstorms and I have lost signal. My signal strengths are strong on all birds. I'm not too concerned at this point, but it does seem like I lose signal more often then I did with the triple lnb dish. Then again, my installation of the Slimline coincided with the worst part of the "rainy season" here in SW Fla.

[JeffBowser]

I have an original side-car, one of the first that came out. I get signals in the 96-100 on all relevant sats, and I have rarely lost anything to rain-fade more than a few minutes.

Man, you left your dish up in Jeanne ? I take my reflector down so the aim doesn't get tweaked. All my neighbors lost aim, I just fired up my genny, and put my reflector backup, and we were in business.

[HDTVFreak07]

I have an original side-car, one of the first that came out. I get signals in the 96-100 on all relevant sats, and I have rarely lost anything to rain-fade more than a few minutes.

Man, you left your dish up in Jeanne ? I take my reflector down so the aim doesn't get tweaked. All my neighbors lost aim, I just fired up my genny, and put my reflector backup, and we were in business.

Makes me wonder if your receiver will still work if you take the side-car off. Side-car is for 110 and 119 sats.

[JeffBowser]

Since I have no plans to take the "side-car" off, I guess we'll never find out.

Makes me wonder if your receiver will still work if you take the side-car off. Side-car is for 110 and 119 sats.

[HDTVFreak07]

Since I have no plans to take the "side-car" off, I guess we'll never find out.

Well, I bought the dish with side-car few months ago but installer refused to install them and gave me the Slimline instead. I guess I could try mine and see when the new bird goes live.

[K4SMX]

I have an original side-car, one of the first that came out. I get signals in the 96-100 on all relevant sats, and I have rarely lost anything to rain-fade more than a few minutes.

Man, you left your dish up in Jeanne ? I take my reflector down so the aim doesn't get tweaked. All my neighbors lost aim, I just fired up my genny, and put my reflector backup, and we were in business.
Yeah, I did. At the time it was a pole mounted-3 LNB and I had a spare in the garage. The reason I left it up was because it was tucked up against the south end of the west side of a 2 story house. It never budged, good signals except for about 2 hours, max. It was very reassuring to get constant info on D*, because the electric had been shut off 8 hrs earlier, and I was all alone with 60 gallons of gas for 5 days before I could leave and not be stopped by the cops trying to get back across the bridge. The big CM UHF OTA sure was taken down, though! That thing would've totally disappeared...

[russelle777]

I have had directv since 95, I have lost due to rain many times. Especially moreso since moving to Florida. It doesnt happen often, but if its a big storm I lose it for a few minutes. I can always tell when we are going to get a heavy rain, it loses signals on some of the sats but not all. I have very good signals so dish alignment is not a problem. Also not every sat gets knocked out, I can usually look around and find some of the channels working.

[kylebj]

I've been with D* for about 2 1/2 years and I have the AT-9 dish. It's gone out about 5 times in that window and it doesn't matter how hard it rains. My thinking (and I'm not nearly as smart as Earl or Tom or half the other people on here) is that it has to do with cloud cover.

[JeffBowser]

Guess I am not understanding you - the "side-car" and slimline are both 5lnb dishes capable of receiving the new sats. One just has a different physical layout.

Well, I bought the dish with side-car few months ago but installer refused to install them and gave me the Slimline instead. I guess I could try mine and see when the new bird goes live.

[JeffBowser]

What a story ! My dish is out on a pole, not much protection. Oddly enough, my Winegard GS2200 wing antenna on the roof peak came through just fine, and we watched a battery operated portable TV through it all.

Yeah, I did. At the time it was a pole mounted-3 LNB and I had a spare in the garage. The reason I left it up was because it was tucked up against the south end of the west side of a 2 story house. It never budged, good signals except for about 2 hours, max. It was very reassuring to get constant info on D*, because the electric had been shut off 8 hrs earlier, and I was all alone with 60 gallons of gas for 5 days before I could leave and not be stopped by the cops trying to get back across the bridge. The big CM UHF OTA sure was taken down, though! That thing would've totally disappeared...

[Reggie3]

I had a tech come out on Tuesday to take a look at my lines and dish to see if water could be getting into the lines somewhere.

My window was from 1 to 5 on Tuesday. At 5:15 I hadn't heard anything so I called D*. I was told he would be at my house at 5:30. At 6:15 it started to rain and I still hadn't heard from him so I went to the gym (my in-laws were at the house). He showed up sometime after 7 and told them the lines were fine and that I should just expect my signal to drop in the rain. He left his number in case I had any questions.

It rained Tuesday and Wednesday and both days, the signal behaved like I would expect it to. The transponder signals dropped into the 70s, I had the occasional stutter, and on Wednesday I lost signal for about 30 seconds in the worst part of the storm.

Tonight it rained again with about the same intensity as Wednesday. This time, the transponder signals dropped to 0 for every transponder (in multiple rooms) and stayed that way for close to an hour. I called the tech and left him a message but haven't heard back yet.

The behavior I saw tonight definitely does not seem normal based on all the great feedback I have received here (and also on the phone when talking to the D* CSR). If I get in touch with the tech and he tells me it is normal, what should my next course of action be? In my brief history with D* it seems like they don't want to take any responsibilty for the work their installers do (I had a problem with the install and they kept pawning me off on the installation company, even when the installation company wasn't resolving the matter in a way I felt was satisfactory). Is D* going to stick with whatever the tech says? Should I find an independant installer to come doublecheck the lines and dish? Will D* reimburse me if I do this?

Thanks again for all the great info.

Just some thoughts - how accessible are your connections? could you take a hose and wet the connections down while someone looks at the readings? Might be able to pin point the weak link. No expert here but it's what I would try.

[75sides]

Heh, I just got back in from trying that when I read this. I took the hose and soaked down the grounding block and the dish for a while while my wife was watching the TV and it didn't drop the signal.

Just some thoughts - how accessible are your connections? could you take a hose and wet the connections down while someone looks at the readings? Might be able to pin point the weak link. No expert here but it's what I would try.

[JeffBowser]

did you direct water at the LNB assembly itself ?

[75sides]

Yeah, I soaked it down pretty good, spraying it from behind the saucer, right into the plastic caps on the LNBs.

did you direct water at the LNB assembly itself ?

[Rich]

The 0's and the 77 are for spot beams not aimed at you. From those levels and from the ones I snipped, your getting great signals.

At this end, I'd rule out an alignment issue. I'd look for a connection/cable issue somewhere where moisture may be getting in the lines an causing an issue when it rains. Moisture could also be getting in the LNB as well, causing an issue.

Good troubleshooting! Just what I would have said.

[JeffBowser]

Man, you have a head-scratcher, and I'm sorry I don't have anything better to add....

[K4SMX]

Yes, a head-scratcher for sure. Reading your posts, I think I see two different scenarios. One, you go down below the 50's and two, you go to zero and stay there for a long time. In that second scenario, have you noticed whether it goes straight to zero and then pops back to normal, or is there a "fade" to it?

[HD AV]

With the old Oval 2lnb dish and a Sony receiver I might loose signal for a minute. Even watched D* through 2 hurricanes. Since I've upgraded to the "Sidecar" and an HR20 I, too, loose signal (to all 0s) almost every time it rains. It doesn't have to be severe thunderstorms, just a good, steady rain. All my signals are in the upper 80s to 100s. I called D* about this as I will be out for 10 min to several hours. I'd never experienced this before and was quite surprised as I have direct line of sight, nothing to interfere at all. I also tried the hose trick on the dish and connections. Still have not a clue as to why this happens. I also just live with it.

[75sides]

In the case it hits all 0s I don't notice it fading. I get the searching for satelite message and when I do the test, they are all at 0 already. It's driving me a little batty. :eek2:

Yes, a head-scratcher for sure. Reading your posts, I think I see two different scenarios. One, you go down below the 50's and two, you go to zero and stay there for a long time. In that second scenario, have you noticed whether it goes straight to zero and then pops back to normal, or is there a "fade" to it?

[DawgLink]

My reception is pretty flaky when it is raining as well but I deal with it.

I always have plenty on DVR and just flip that on.

Everything works great besides that

[K4SMX]

In the case it hits all 0s I don't notice it fading. I get the searching for satelite message and when I do the test, they are all at 0 already. It's driving me a little batty. :eek2:
Wait a minute! You've got an HR20 and 3 regular receivers. That means there's a multi-switch in there somewhere. If you're losing signals completely on all your receivers, you've probably got a bad multi-switch or a loose connector somewhere. Where is it located?

[tbpb3]

My reception is pretty flaky when it is raining as well but I deal with it.

I always have plenty on DVR and just flip that on.

Everything works great besides that

I would give anything for some rain.
its been too long.:(

[JeffBowser]

AH ! Good question. OP ?

Wait a minute! You've got an HR20 and 3 regular receivers. That means there's a multi-switch in there somewhere. If you're losing signals completely on all your receivers, you've probably got a bad multi-switch or a loose connector somewhere. Where is it located?

[75sides]

The multiswitch is in the attic above the garage. The installer has it sitting on top of an a/c duct. I have been meaning to mount it on a 2x4, but haven't had time yet. The duct is insulated.

Is it possible that a bad multiswtich would crap out if it was getting low signals? Seems unlikely, but I am grasping at straws at this point.

Wait a minute! You've got an HR20 and 3 regular receivers. That means there's a multi-switch in there somewhere. If you're losing signals completely on all your receivers, you've probably got a bad multi-switch or a loose connector somewhere. Where is it located?

[JeffBowser]

Hmm. I was kind of hoping you'd say the switch was outside. Not sure this is the right path now.

[K4SMX]

I can well imagine you're getting batty! This sounds more like an intermittent continuity problem. There's something which completely interrupts your coaxial cable line only when wet. (I'm assuming your hose work on the LNB was completely thorough, because there have been reported cases of water accumulating through cracks in the plastic cover. Examine that issue as well, please.) We need to isolate the culprit:

(The second para. in the following discussion means that you would temporarily have to drop back to one receiver. You may be unwilling to do that while you're waiting for the next rain storm, but it's your call. The point is we're first trying to isolate whether the problem is with your LNB or with your cabling/multi-switch. Frankly, I think you've got a connector problem somewhere.)

I recently spent unnecessary time changing out a friend's dual LNB which, based on my tests, was obviously faulty on one side only. His signals on half of his channels were going from ~95 to 0 every few seconds, sort of like yours. Top of a tall ladder, of course! Only problem was the replacement did the same thing. Turned out the problem was a loose connector on the grounding block on one of his cable lines. There was just enough corrosion build up to make the signal, or more likely the DC switching voltage, go intermittent, almost like someone throwing a switch on and off. So first, I would eliminate that as an issue. Each connector should be unscrewed, the center conductor scraped with a small knife, and then thoroughly re-tightened with a 7/16" wrench. (I assume from your equipment information that you have two grounding blocks.)

I don't know the distance from your dish to the nearest receiver, but the simplest way to completely eliminate cabling as an issue is to run down to Lowe's/HD/RS/etc. and get an el cheapo length of coax with factory connectors for temporary experimentation. (Even if you have to link a couple of these together.) Hook it up in place of one of your current lines through a window or whatever, removing all other connections to the LNB. Hopefully you can easily access the LNB on your dish to temporarily remove it from the arm to get access to the connectors. ( Don't worry about the LNB removal effecting your alignment. Just make sure you don't move the dish!)That 7/16" wrench may come in handy for unscrewing the existing line from the LNB. There may be an existing coupling in one of the lines from when the dish was installed. I wouldn't use that as a short cut, unless you physically can't access the LNB, if you want to run a good test. Be ready to throw the temporary line out the window during lightning storms until your testing is over!

I have also seen bad grounding blocks. I don't exactly what happens to them, but I don't think that's your problem, because it seems the dielectric material in the block sometimes goes bad, resulting in a reduced, but not interrupted signal level. But you could completely eliminate that question by simply replacing the grounding block temporarily with double female couplers also from Lowe's/HD/RS/etc. Again, don't run this experiment during lightning storms. Just be ready to go out in the rain the next time you lose your signal, if none of the above works for you.

[Rich]

I can well imagine you're getting batty! This sounds more like an intermittent continuity problem. There's something which completely interrupts your coaxial cable line only when wet. (I'm assuming your hose work on the LNB was completely thorough, because there have been reported cases of water accumulating through cracks in the plastic cover. Examine that issue as well, please.) We need to isolate the culprit:

(The second para. in the following discussion means that you would temporarily have to drop back to one receiver. You may be unwilling to do that while you're waiting for the next rain storm, but it's your call. The point is we're first trying to isolate whether the problem is with your LNB or with your cabling/multi-switch. Frankly, I think you've got a connector problem somewhere.)

I recently spent unnecessary time changing out a friend's dual LNB which, based on my tests, was obviously faulty on one side only. His signals on half of his channels were going from ~95 to 0 every few seconds, sort of like yours. Top of a tall ladder, of course! Only problem was the replacement did the same thing. Turned out the problem was a loose connector on the grounding block on one of his cable lines. There was just enough corrosion build up to make the signal, or more likely the DC switching voltage, go intermittent, almost like someone throwing a switch on and off. So first, I would eliminate that as an issue. Each connector should be unscrewed, the center conductor scraped with a small knife, and then thoroughly re-tightened with a 7/16" wrench. (I assume from your equipment information that you have two grounding blocks.)

I don't know the distance from your dish to the nearest receiver, but the simplest way to completely eliminate cabling as an issue is to run down to Lowe's/HD/RS/etc. and get an el cheapo length of coax with factory connectors for temporary experimentation. (Even if you have to link a couple of these together.) Hook it up in place of one of your current lines through a window or whatever, removing all other connections to the LNB. Hopefully you can easily access the LNB on your dish to temporarily remove it from the arm to get access to the connectors. ( Don't worry about the LNB removal effecting your alignment. Just make sure you don't move the dish!)That 7/16" wrench may come in handy for unscrewing the existing line from the LNB. There may be an existing coupling in one of the lines from when the dish was installed. I wouldn't use that as a short cut, unless you physically can't access the LNB, if you want to run a good test. Be ready to throw the temporary line out the window during lightning storms until your testing is over!

I have also seen bad grounding blocks. I don't exactly what happens to them, but I don't think that's your problem, because it seems the dielectric material in the block sometimes goes bad, resulting in a reduced, but not interrupted signal level. But you could completely eliminate that question by simply replacing the grounding block temporarily with double female couplers also from Lowe's/HD/RS/etc. Again, don't run this experiment during lightning storms. Just be ready to go out in the rain the next time you lose your signal, if none of the above works for you.

Not being critical, just curious. "Dielectric grounding blocks"? Dielectric devices are used to block voltage. A grounding block wants to maintain a path to ground , not block it. Grounding blocks are made from highly conductive materials, normally copper. As long as the grounding block is firmly attached to, for instance, a water pipe it should not fail. Any loose connections in an electrical circuit will increase the heat at the point of "looseness" tremendously.

[K4SMX]

Not being critical, just curious. "Dielectric grounding blocks"? Dielectric devices are used to block voltage. A grounding block wants to maintain a path to ground , not block it. Grounding blocks are made from highly conductive materials, normally copper. As long as the grounding block is firmly attached to, for instance, a water pipe it should not fail. Any loose connections in an electrical circuit will increase the heat at the point of "looseness" tremendously.
Please re-read: ...."dielectric material in the block"...

I'm not a great fan of these things in any case. They're OK for what they are: Simple pass-through devices which don't have any ability to ground the center conductor in the event of a lightning strike. But what do you get for $4.59? I have quick disconnect male F adapters at all my receiver inputs, and I pull 'em whenever there's a thunder storm. I wrap dayglow-orange round stickers from any office supply store around the coax at these connectors. Everyone here knows the procedure, in case I'm not around.

[Rich]

Please re-read: ...."dielectric material in the block"...

I'm not a great fan of these things in any case. They're OK for what they are: Simple pass-through devices which don't have any ability to ground the center conductor in the event of a lightning strike. But what do you get for $4.59? I have quick disconnect male F adapters at all my receiver inputs, and I pull 'em whenever there's a thunder storm. I wrap dayglow-orange round stickers from any office supply store around the coax at these connectors. Everyone here knows the procedure, in case I'm not around.

OK, you are not talking about a grounding block in the normal sense. This is some device that bleeds off excess juice to ground from the "neutral" outer shield of the cable. But allows the center conductor to function? Can't be a dielectric material. Dielectric materials do not conduct. For instance when you pass a sub-station you see large "tanks" that are transformers that are filled with mineral water that is a dielectric material that inhibits the flow of juice. Remember, voltage does not flow, it is the pressure that regulates amperage flow. "Juice" is the combination of resistance, amperage and voltage according to the few laws of electricity such as Ohm's Law and Kirchhoff's Law. A dielectric device is a highly resistant insulator.

You are doing the correct thing when you disconnect physically your receivers during thunder storms. A lightning strike will not follow any known "laws" or the path of least resistance, but in most cases will go where it damn well pleases. Heavy gauge lightning rods connected to heavy gauge copper rods driven at least five feet into the ground will divert strikes in most instances, but not for sure.

I understand that your geographical location is subject to many severe electrical storms, but you cannot do anything about a direct lightning strike except unplug devices from the electrical system and the satellite, cable or antenna systems.

Even a close strike will generate an electromagnetic field that will blow out fuses, trip circuit breakers, and generally take out the weakest link in an electrical system. So while disconnecting the receivers from the satellite system is a good step, you should also disconnect the power supply. If you suffer a direct strike, there are no surge protectors or any device that you can afford that will protect you.

Remember, we know (at least for the most part) how electricity functions below 600 VAC, but over that it is a crap shoot. Schools still teach the THEORY of electricity, not the fact of electricity.

Please don't take this post as criticism. I'm just curious about your "grounding blocks".

[K4SMX]

OK, you are not talking about a grounding block in the normal sense.....
I'm just using the generic term for what D* installs and what people buy at Lowe's/HD/RS/etc.: the two double females on a single block with the (not-big-enough!) hole for a ground wire. I'm from back in the day when they thought polychlorinatedbiphenols were [i]excellent{/i] insulating heat sinks for transformers...

.....You are doing the correct thing when you disconnect physically your receivers during thunder storms....you should also disconnect the power supply. If you suffer a direct strike, there are no surge protectors or any device that you can afford that will protect you....
Yeah, we do that, too! Everything to be pulled has got that dayglow-orange label.

....Please don't take this post as criticism. I'm just curious about your "grounding blocks".
Glad to have your comments. Sorry if I wasn't clear what I was talking about! Back to the OP.

[Rich]

I'm just using the generic term for what D* installs and what people buy at Lowe's/HD/RS/etc.: the two double females on a single block with the (not-big-enough!) hole for a ground wire. I'm from back in the day when they thought polychlorinatedbiphenols were [i]excellent{/i] insulating heat sinks for transformers...


Yeah, we do that, too! Everything to be pulled has got that dayglow-orange label.


Glad to have your comments. Sorry if I wasn't clear what I was talking about! Back to the OP.

Gotcha on the block. PCBs were excellent when used in xformers. Who knew they were carcinogens? And I had my hands in them many times. No problems yet. We had to drain all our xformers and replace the PCBs with something like mineral oil. Didn't work as well, but a hell of a lot safer. By the way, anyone reading this who is using or has old fluorescent fixtures with old ballasts should know that the ballasts are loaded with PCBs and should be disposed of properly.
Wonder why they call those "grounding blocks"? That's the kind of thing that gets people killed and property destroyed.

[K4SMX]

Well they sure shouldn't be used as the primary or only path to ground for any outside antenna. Now back to 75sides and his weirdo, intermittent, rained-out signals. I can't wait to find out what fixes his problem, since it's so strange.

[Rich]

Well they sure shouldn't be used as the primary or only path to ground for any outside antenna. Now back to 75sides and his weirdo, intermittent, rained-out signals. I can't wait to find out what fixes his problem, since it's so strange.

If he has a multiswitch that's probably the problem. I just lost a 6X16 powered Zinwell. I know the adapter (changes 120 VAC to 21-35 VDC) is blown, no output. Have to assume water got into the Zinwell and shorted out the power supply, or could have been the result of a massive lightning strike close to my house. Even if it shows up as a bad adapter, I would not be able to trust the multiswitch again. The Zinwells are water resistant according to D* and the installers. Right. :nono2: