Digital Broadcast Cutover, may result in blackouts

[islesfan]

According to this article (and I know Swann is hated here, but assume his premise for this question)
http://www.tvpredictions.com/echo090407.htm

Will I be losing my CW and PBS feeds on the morning of Feb. 18, 2009? I had never thought about it since DIrecTV is digital, but they only carry the SD feed of the CW in Reno, and the PBS in Reno doesn't broadcast in HD, and likely won't by the time the deadline rolls around.

[Earl Bonovich]

That whole article is not based on how YOU get your signal from DirecTV...
but on how DirecTV get's it signal from the affiliates.

In a lot of markets DirecTV still gets the local stations via ANALOG transmisions (old analog antennas)..... and that can be for a variety of reasons.

Also, there are other markets where DirecTV doesn't have a contract with the affiliates to re-broadcast that affiliates DIGITAL transmission.... so that is another case.

Basically... "your" affiliate and DirecTV need to get together and work out the details on how they are going to carry all of your locals, after the current method doesn't work anymore.

Aka- Go to a FIBER based system, and get the content directly from the affiliate. Or get a contract in place, and allow DirecTV to re-broadcast the digital broadcast.

In both cases, there are hardware setup and testing, that needs to be done.

So what does that mean for you...


If you affiliates and DirecTV don't work out something (or are already on an alternative method), those channels will go dark on 2/18/2009

However, I don't know of a list anywhere that tells us in each DMA, how DirecTV is getting the signal from the affiliates (for both ANALOG versions and Digital versions) of the channels.

So there is little way to predict what is going to happen to your specific affiliates.

[bonscott87]

So long as those channels broadcast a digital signal then nothing will change for you with DirecTV. In my market all the locals are picked up OTA both analog and digital. All the locals have a digital signal so DirecTV will just switch over to that for their SD feeds and/or downconvert the HD signal to 480i for SD customers.

[Tom Robertson]

The really tough local channels will be the flash cuts. A few will cut ahead of time, but there will be a very large number that will change overnite on February 18, 2009. That is a nightmare for everyone involved, not just the stations.

Be ready to watch some VOD that week. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[ajwillys]

...and the PBS in Reno doesn't broadcast in HD, and likely won't by the time the deadline rolls around.

They don't have to be in HD but they will HAVE to transmit digitally using the ATSC standard as opposed to NTSC. Either that or NO ONE will be allowed to see them and it won't be long before the channel goes under. Most likely they will choose to go to ATSC trasmissions (not necessarily HD) rather than go under....

As far as D*, they would only be affected IF they currently receive the stream via OTA NTSC. Anything other method will not affect them. If they do use OTA NTSC, I'm sure they'll 'update' the agreement for ATSC.

[Alan Gordon]

However, I don't know of a list anywhere that tells us in each DMA, how DirecTV is getting the signal from the affiliates (for both ANALOG versions and Digital versions) of the channels.

Earl did a great post in explaining... but I did want to add one thing.

Some affiliates broadcast a SD simulcast on their digital channel... and some cable systems and satellite companies already use this SD simulcast which would mean nothing should change for them.

There are some markets where DirecTV carries a network that is a sub-channel, in which case, nothing should change for them. A neighboring DMA's CW affiliate is digital only, yet DirecTV carries them.

However, the percentage of channels that DirecTV receive this way would be VERY SMALL compared to the channels received the ways Earl described in his post.

~Alan

[scuba_tim]

Just saw this story:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33691/98/

Looks like the sat companies are having trouble getting ready for the switch to digital. Wonder how this will play out, though I thought the new sat would be plenty for them.

[Tom Servo]

It's not a matter of satellite capacity in this case, but the equipment on the ground in each city to convert/send the digital OTA signal to D*.

Even if they don't carry a market's HD lineup, they will still have to change out some equipment in every single market they serve once the analog signals are shut off in 2009.

[PoitNarf]

Just so people that don't bother to RTFA don't get off track, it talks about locals that D* broadcasts which they pick up off of analog airwaves. I guess there's still a number of stations that D* still doesn't capture a digital signal from or perhaps these stations aren't even broadcasting in digital yet.

[Earl Bonovich]

Yesterday's discussion on the topic:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97248

[Doug Brott]

Here's to me hoping that the FCC just gets on with the switch over .. Yes, it will be problematic for some folks, but it's time to do it now.

[Stuart Sweet]

Doug, so far the Congress (who supervise the FCC) are in agreement with you. It's been put off too long.

[pdxBeav]

This is just a lame attempt by the satellite companies to delay having to spend money to make the switch. They knew this was coming and there's no excuse for not getting it done by the deadline.

EDIT: I misunderstood the problem. After reading all the articles and messages it does seem like this could be a big problem if a lot of stations wait until the deadline to make the switch.

[Ken S]

Delaying deadlines like this never works. Look at E911 services, phone number portability, etc. Rather...keep the deadline and D and E (and the locals) fearing upset customers will hopefully make the necessary investments to get it done. If there is some sort of real emergency then file for a delay in January 2009

[lwilli201]

D* and E have no control over those stations that will flash start digital. They are telling the FCC that their is a problem now for CYA. It is also sending a message to the digital holdouts that they will lose many households if they do not come to terms with sat providers.

[Newshawk]

So WHAT is the PROBLEM? What is it you don't understand about the fact that you have known since 1996 you had 10 and now 12 years to get ready to do switch local stations from analog to digital?"

It's exactly what Tom talked about just a few posts ago:

The really tough local channels will be the flash cuts. A few will cut ahead of time, but there will be a very large number that will change overnite on February 18, 2009. That is a nightmare for everyone involved, not just the stations.

It's a little bit IMPOSSIBLE to set up a digital receiver for a non-existent signal!

[donshan]

That Feb. 2009 analog cutoff date was established by Congress after a very hot debate, but FCC does not have the authority to change that date unless Congress takes it up again and changes it. That is doubtful because Congress is really interested in getting the money from the auction of the existing analog TV spectrum estimated as bringing in up to $50 billion. The problem is the future Budgets assume these revenues will start to come in after 2009 and the deficit grows if they don't.

I don't see that 2009 date changing so D* and E* need to get moving to solve the problem. Actually by 2009 D* is supposed to have its 1500 HD LIL channels working and it would be a minor problem to down convert that local station into a SD channel. It will be those stations that are not on the D* HD list, and those who flash switch to digital that could create a problem.

Even then, if I were FCC I would tell D* & E* the same thing they are telling the broadcasters, " This analog cutoff was supposed to have occurred in Jan, 2007 after giving you 10 years from the 1996 Digital TV Congressional Communications Bill that mandated this analog cutoff , and now you got a two year extension until. 2009.


So WHAT is the PROBLEM? What is it you don't understand about the fact that you have known since 1996 you had 10 and now 12 years to get ready to switch local stations from analog to digital?"

PS. Read the binary numbers starting with the 1 at the center of my Avatar)

__________________
Viewpoint from a HD content starved small DMA TV market below DMA 100.
My Equipment:
HR20-700, 5 LNB dish, Sony KDS 60A2020, Yamaha RX-V2700 with HDMI switching
DirecTV since 1999

[MikeR]

Directv Optimistic (http://www.tvpredictions.com/directv090507.htm)

[Earl Bonovich]

DirecTV and DishNetwork, can not do ANYTHING until the affiliate has either:

-) Stated their Digital Transition to plan to them; So they can setup what ever they need to on their side of the equation

-) Have Started to broadcast in Digital; So that systems can be deployed and tested, and thus eliminate the need for the Analog



There is another scenerio for those affiliate that are refusing to give DirecTV (and Dish Network) carraige rights to the Digital broadcasts.... That is a different "issue", but could result in black outs come Feb 2009.


But the jist of the articles cover the first point: Some of these affiliates are still not broadcasting in Digital format, and have not provided DirecTV/EchoStar the details on how they plan to do it.


DirecTV and EchoStar can't do anything unless the affiliates choose which path they are going to go.

[Earl Bonovich]

I have merged the two threads

[Tom Robertson]

My 2 cents: Dish and DIRECTV are not only CYA, but also very pro actively helping their customers. (Maybe all the digital customers in one sense.)

They could have waited until the middle of next year, to merely CYA. But not only did they raise a red flag early, they proceeded to suggest how to help setup a process and timeline so that customers don't go dark.

To me, this sounds like they've done some very good things.

Cheers,
Tom

[HoosierBoy]

I am confused about something. Other than CA and LP channels, shouldn't all full power stations be broadcasting a digital signal already? Also, I thought most of the "non" full power channels just recieved their channel assignments from the FCC. So they have 18 months from now to broadcast digitally, giving time for the SAT companies to set up their signal.

To me, the only real issues will be the flash cut channels which can't be too many.

[Earl Bonovich]

Sadly...

For articles like this to appear, and actuall FCC requests being made...
It must be "larger" then just a few....

[RAD]

I found a paper on the FCC site (had a link in another thread, don't have it now), it says there's a total of 1,702 television stations in all markets. 1,603 stations are now on the air broadcasting a digital signal, a difference of 99 stations. Looks like a few to me.

[Earl Bonovich]

I found a paper on the FCC site (had a link in another thread, don't have it now), it says there's a total of 1,702 television stations in all markets. 1,603 stations are now on the air broadcasting a digital signal, a difference of 99 stations. Looks like a few to me.

If that is the case....

Then what's with the hub-bub....
Unless that 99 are being really secretive with their plans...

Or maybe it goes back to the contract issue, where some of these carriers are not granting DirecTV (and Dish) the authorization to carry their digital signals.

[generalpatton78]

I don't know what to say but some people will simply wait until their forced to do something. This has to happened now and if it means somebody looses a channel for a few months then tough s***. This was already delayed once (basically) and it doesn't need to and won't happened again. If your local affiliate doesn't have a digital OTA signal start a campaign NOW!!

I have a local CW that is LP analog and had no Digital signal except for the fact they piggy back their channel on the local CBS as a sub channel. When Directv finally has a CW HD DNS I plan to challenge them not only for waivers but that they don't qualify as a local in my area because they don't have a signal anybody can pick up with a antenna. Why should anybody who doesn't even broadcast a signal think they should be allowed to stop anybody in my area from bringing in a National feed?

I can only advise others to challenge and campaign the remaining locals dragging their feet to hurry up. All local channels are to be broadcasting their own independent 480i digital signal by the cut off date. Look up you locals phone numbers and start calling and ask about their plans for the cut off. You have every legal right to do so and can even file complaints with the FCC.

[richlife]

In the end I think that all this will be moot points. The central point is the the cosumers (you and me) are clearly deciding that HD (notice that I'm saying HD, not digital) is the most desirable path. Many still don't know what the issues are, but I'm finding that ALL my neighbors, for the first time, are recently deciding that they want and HD television and they want to see what I have. I doubt that my neighbors are any different than yours and by mid-year 2008 we are going to see a major shift to HD such that all these locals cannot ignore it -- nor, thank god, can the Congress or the FCC.

[donshan]

I am confused about something. Other than CA and LP channels, shouldn't all full power stations be broadcasting a digital signal already? Also, I thought most of the "non" full power channels just recieved their channel assignments from the FCC. So they have 18 months from now to broadcast digitally, giving time for the SAT companies to set up their signal.

To me, the only real issues will be the flash cut channels which can't be too many.

It involves the local/regional microwave/fiber links to get the local station's feed to the D* uplink center. I think the issue is that D* is currently using the local station's analog channel signal in many (most?) DMA markets ( mine for sure) rather than that station's digital channel as the local feed to their uplink center to provide LIL SD channels.

They must shut down that uplink and convert the up link to the digital station's feed. This involves shifting to a different broadcast RF frequency and also equipment for a digital instead of analog modulation to collect the new digital channels. It could involve a lot of equipment and manpower to switch station's uplink over from their old analog channel to the new digital channels.

However they should have seen this coming and already have done it, but have they?

[HoosierBoy]

Donshan,

Great points and I think you summarized it well. With 18 months to go, it would seem like D* can get through the process.

It seems to me the media is always looking to stir people up without really presenting facts.

[Tom Robertson]

I found a paper on the FCC site (had a link in another thread, don't have it now), it says there's a total of 1,702 television stations in all markets. 1,603 stations are now on the air broadcasting a digital signal, a difference of 99 stations. Looks like a few to me.

In this link: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/files/dtvsum.html, as of June 12, 2007 1,702 TV STATIONS (98.8%) HAVE BEEN GRANTED A DTV CONSTRUCTION PERMIT OR LICENSE. THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 1,610 STATIONS ON THE AIR WITH DTV OPERATION – 1,241 STATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED TO BE ON THE AIR WITH LICENSED FACILITIES OR PROGRAM TEST AUTHORITY AND 369 OTHERS ARE AUTHORIZED TO BE ON THE AIR WITH SPECIAL OR EXPERIMENTAL DTV AUTHORITY. (Yelling [all caps] in the original.)

But this might not tell the whole tale. Some of the 369 are likely not fully operational and purely in late nite testing (especially those that are going to flash cut); some will switch to use their analog channel assignment on the transition date; etc.

Curiouser and curiouser,
Tom

[Alan Gordon]

some will switch to use their analog channel assignment on the transition date;

In my market, my local NBC affiliate is broadcasting digitally on channel 17, but after the transition date, they are planning on moving over to their analog channel of 10.

In one of my neighboring DMAs, the local ABC affiliate is broadcasting digitally on channel 47, but after the transition date, they are planning on broadcasting digitally on their analog channel of 9.

In one of my other neighboring DMAs, the local ABC affiliate is broadcasting digitally on channel 22, but after the transition date, they are planning on broadcasting on their analog channel of 27. The NBC and FOX plan on doing the same by switching from their current digital channels of 2 and 50 (respectively) to their current analog channels of 40 and 49 (respectively).

Even more complicated is that my DMA (sorta) has two PBS stations (though they're just repeaters of Georgia's statewide PBS). Neither one are broadcasting digitally at the moment, and one of them isn't broadcasting in analog after a storm knocked their tower down, but when they do, they will be broadcasting digitally on channel 5 and channel 8. What's complicated is that the channel currently broadcasting on channel 5 will be moving to channel 6 after the transition date... which is currently occupied by one of the neighboring DMAs' CBS affiliate's analog signal, and their tower is only a county or two away from this PBS tower.

Luckily enough however is that since this station is the same statewide, all they have to do is use another DMAs station. Dish Network currently does this with the channel already anyway... and DirecTV doesn't offer LIL (SD or HD), but I expect they would do the same.

The whole thing is something of a mess...

~Alan

[Ext 721]

SD can be digital.
HD could be (but I believe hasn't been) analog.

The same way you can have electric or acoustic music on both CD and vinyl.

Therefore, jsut becuase these channels are going "digital" does not mean D* will drop them...in fact, it will reduce the complexity of getting the signal to directv.

[donshan]

SD can be digital.
HD could be (but I believe hasn't been) analog.

The same way you can have electric or acoustic music on both CD and vinyl.

Therefore, jsut becuase these channels are going "digital" does not mean D* will drop them...in fact, it will reduce the complexity of getting the signal to directv.

In the USA, to be HD it MUST be digital in either 720p or 1080(i) for broadcast or 1080p for HD/BlueRay DVD. The Japanese developed an analog HD system decades ago, but it never took off. However the ASTC 8vsb digital system is the legal standard for OTA broadcast HDTV in the US.

However, D* uses a different digital format than the OTA broadcast digital format. I it not possible for D* just to pick up a local digital OTA channel and add it to the D* system without converting it. You cannot connect the D* signal cable to the input of a HDTV's OTA ASTC digital tuner and tune local channels- they are different and BTW cable digital is different from OTA digital too.

History of the US OTA broadcast digital standard:

* 1987 - Advisory Committee on Advanced Television Service is formed
* 1990 - Simulcast principle advocated by the FCC
* 1990 - Four competing digital HDTV systems announced
* 1992 - Systems tested at Advanced Television Test Center (ATTC)
* 1992 - All competitors announce planned improvements
* 1993 - ACATS Special Panel recommends retesting
* 1993 - Grand Alliance forms, "collaborative" phase begins
* 1994 - Grand Alliance system undergoes ATTC verification testing
* 1995 - ATSC Standard A/53 is published, incorporating Grand Alliance System
* 1996 - FCC Adopts ATSC A/53 as standard for the transmission of digital television, but excludes requirements with respect to scanning formats, aspect ratios, and lines of resolution

[jimmyv2000]

I e-mailed all the stations that are not broadcasting in the digital format on D* yesterday.:D

WGBH 2&44 (PBS)
WSBK 38
WLVI 56(CW)
WMUR 9 (ABC)Manchester NH(Already get WCVB 5 )
WENH 11 (PBS)Durham NH
WZMY 50 (MY TV) Derry NH
And a couple of others.
ONLY WLVI has responded back stating the are working with Directv on an agreement and have not come to terms.