Specs on Dish PVR 921 and JVC TU-9000 HD PVR's!

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have just received the initial specs of the new Dish Network 921 PVR and the JVC TU-9000 PVR.

The Specs are subject to change and no release date is set.

Specs for the Dish PVR 921
- High definition, two-tuner, PVR satellite receiver
- 250GB or larger hard drive for storage of HDTV & SDTV programming
- 8PSK Compatable
- PIP for standard definition content
- 8VSB Tuner included, for reception of off-air analog/digital
broadcasts
- DVI / HDTV digital interface for connection to an HDTV display
- 1394 iLINK digital interface for connection to a D-VHS
- HD Component Video output for analog connection to an HDTV display
- Future Internet support
- Supports DishPro Technology

Here are the Specs for the JVC TU-9000 PVR
JVC TU-PVR9000
- High definition, two-tuner, PVR satellite receiver
- 8PSK Compatable
- 120GB hard drive for storage of HDTV & SDTV programming
- PIP for standard definition content
- DVI / HDTV digital interface for connection to an HDTV display
- 1394 iLINK digital interface for connection to a D-VHS
- HD Component Video output for analog connection to an HDTV display
- Future Internet support
- Supports DishPro Technology

Remember you heard it here at DBSTalk.COM first. :)

Look down a few messages (or click here) to see a Dish Network HD Receiver Compariosn Chart :D (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=69992#post70052)

[Martyva]

Estimated price about 1K

[James_F]

Scott,

They aren't the same unit right? Different hardware?

[Martyva]

They are both manufactured by JVC, but have different feature paks. ETA (my Guess) 1st quarter TU9000, 921 second quarter

[James_F]

So they could run the same OS then...

[Martyva]

i still like the girl with the bouncing eyeballs best

[jwhite]

I sure hope one or the other allows additional Hard Drives to be added from the start maybe via Firewire. The 250GB drive would be OK for a while, but the 120 is inadequate.

From the specs, the JVC doesn't have the 8VSB capabilty (which I don't need out here in the boonies) but it would need a much bigger or add-on hard drives to get me to buy it.

From my point of view, price is much less important than features or space (within reason, of course).

Jay

[Scott Greczkowski]

Here is a Chart which shows you all the Dish HD Receivers side by side for comparison.

All's that I can say is... I want one! :D

[P Smith]

Sorry Scott, but originally info about 921 and 9000 IRDs was post at TechRetailer site April 18, 2002. ;) click and see (http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Index.html)

[Scott Greczkowski]

We have known about the 921 for awhile this is true, but these are the first actual specs on the unit.

The pictures that Claude took of the 921 were a mock up version which was thrown together for the team summit.

BTW From what I am told BOTH units look exactly like a Dish 721 unit.

[James_F]

At least they are saying future on internet capability. :rolleyes:

[jeffcarp]

I know that 8PSK is a modulation scheme, but what type of channels/services use 8PSK?

[SParker]

I bet the price is going to be SCARY!!!!!!!!!

[James_F]

Originally posted by Martyva
i still like the girl with the bouncing eyeballs best

Can't you guys get over here. You want me to ruin this thread with her picture?

Anyway I think I lost her. :blush:

[belsokar]

any word on whether 8vsb will NEVER be offered on the 9000? or is it just not being delivered, or offered yet? (basically is it like the 6000 used to be, possible to upgrade in the future?)

also, is that $1k guesstimated for the 9000 or 921?

my personal thoughts...if these are only a few months apart, and a couple hundred dollars apart, than its worth waiting for the 921...especially if networks won't be coming anytime soon dish. If I can save a couple hundred dollars and get ABC,CBS,NBC and FOX through dish...i can see myself not waiting for the 921 since I wouldn't really have to worry about OTA...we'll see i suppose...

[Scott Greczkowski]

No word on 8VSB for the TU-9000, perhaps I will receive word on if it will it does soon.

I am going to also update a few things on the chart later on today.

No retail price has been mentioned yet. I personally would not be suprised to see the 921 priced at about $1999.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
I personally would not be suprised to see the 921 priced at about $1999.

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

[EvanS]

any idea if the dual-tuner/dual-recording capability will include use of the OAR module? I doubt it will include dual 8VSB tuners BUT recording one OAR channel while recording/viewing a sat channel would be nice...

[Scott Greczkowski]

You won't be able to record Analog off air channels. But you can record 8VSB off air signals on the 921.

[HarryD]

That JVC model is a little light in the loafers with respect to HD space. 120 gig? I don't know who made that call...

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by HarryD
That JVC model is a little light in the loafers with respect to HD space. 120 gig? I don't know who made that call... Probably to keep the price down. I would go for it if the price was right.

[zimm0who0net]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
You won't be able to record Analog off air channels. But you can record 8VSB off air signals on the 921.

Interesting that they're not going to include the analog off air channels but they will include 8VSB off air channels.  You already have 90% of the components necessary for analog tuning in a 8VSB tuner.  The only thing you're really saving money on is the MPEG encoder chip.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I think besides the code of the Mpeg Encoding chip, they really want you to buy your locals off satellite then record them off the air. :)

[mnassour]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
Probably to keep the price down. I would go for it if the price was right.

Hmm...let's see....if a true 1080i signal takes up six times the bandwidth of NTSC, then your 120 gig drive is the equivalent of a 20 gig drive in the old DishPlayer.

Ugh.:(

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have heard that it might be possible in the future to add hard drives using a USB Hard Drive. If this is true then there is not much of a problem. :)

[James_F]

Scott,

Ask yourself if you think that would ever happen, i.e. hows that internet access on your 721?

[rowdymon]

Anyone know if OTA channel descriptions will be included within the guide for the 921? Right now the 6000 doesn't give me the names (or the descriptions) of any shows that I watch thru the OTA module. It's really annoying. I have to flip on the 501, go to the locals and see the description.

[VASatelliteGuy]

The question my enquiring mind wants to know is does it output HD and SD at the same time.

[Scott Greczkowski]

From what I know it DOES not output in HD and SD at the same time (it's like the 6000 in that regard)

[belsokar]

$2k for the 921??? wow!! that could really change some attitudes around here considering the 9000 was once rumored under $1K...what could possiblly make the 921 that much more? 8vsb tuner ($100), 250GB vs 120GB? I'm guessing that 250GB is just 2 hard drives...can't imagine that being the cost difference...I guess it all comes down to the rumor of the 9000 being under $1K and if that is a reliable rumor or not...

[dlsnyder]

Does anyone know if FireWire is bi-directional? If so then the 9000 not having an 8VSB tuner might not be a problem, assuming you have an integrated digital tuner in your TV. Perhaps that is the market JVC is pursuing?

[James_F]

Firewire is bi-directional, but unless there is hardware/software on the unit to handle a feed, it wouldn't matter... I'd assume adding it would cost almost as much as the 8VSB tuner...

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by rowdymon
Anyone know if OTA channel descriptions will be included within the guide for the 921? Right now the 6000 doesn't give me the names (or the descriptions) of any shows that I watch thru the OTA module. It's really annoying. I have to flip on the 501, go to the locals and see the description.
There is a work around for that. It's not perfect but better than having to turn on your 501.

When you manually tune ANALOG channels into the 6000, it will have a radio button to associate it with a network. You have 4 choices, ABS, CBS, NBC or Other. Associate the big 3 with the appropriate channel. Then you will see programming info ONLY FROM 7-10 PM in your guide NEXT TO THE ANALOG CHANNELS.

Then, auto tune your digital channels which should show up right next to or near your manually tuned analog channels in the guide. Then, from 7-10 PM, you will have programming info in the guide right next to your digital stations.

One thing to remember, the program info is NOT listed along with the local digital channel. It is associated to the analog channel so when you go to put in your analog channels, do it manually. DO NOT USE THE AUTO SCAN FEATURE. DO use the autoscan feature for your local digital channels.

This will only work if you subscribe to your local channels through Dish and they are working on your 6000.

Another thing you can try is subscribe to your local stations through Dish then create a Favorites list with the Dish locals and your digital locals in them. Then, when you hit the guide button, you can see what's on.

[Scott Greczkowski]

My guess of $2000 for the 921 is just my guess. I have heard grumblings about the price being around that price, but nothing is official yet.

Of course if you remember the 721 was supposed to be $499. Look what happened to that. :rolleyes:

[Martyva]

That estimated price was from me, while it has some foundation, you could consider it a WAG.

[dmodemd]

Start With
Model 721 = $550

Now Add (in retail $):
HD Decoding Chipsets ($300x2): $600
8PSK: $100
8VSB: $150
250GB: $250
IEEE 1394: $75
Software: $300 (incl. Open TV port from 721, 8VSB, IEEE1394 out, HD functions, DVI out)
DVI $100

Total: $2125

Now show me how they can do it under $1999?

(One way they may try and save $ is to have only one tuner/8VSB HD capable)

[Martyva]

Where are 250GB hardrives available? I think that the software, DVI, 1394 and HD chipset prices are a bit high, but am not arguiing the 2K retail on the 921.

[James_F]

I doubt they'll use 1 drive. It would be much cheaper to use two drives to get to the 250GB...

[dlsnyder]

Originally posted by dmodemd
Start With
Model 721 = $550

Now Add (in retail $):
HD Decoding Chipsets ($300x2): $600
8PSK: $100
8VSB: $150
250GB: $250
IEEE 1394: $75
Software: $300 (incl. Open TV port from 721, 8VSB, IEEE1394 out, HD functions, DVI out)
DVI $100



The ability to record HD with a one box solution - priceless! :D

[marc_desforges]

Maxtor just released a 250GB hard drive this week. So 1 drive is possible as per price for this drive is suppossed to be $399 MSRP.
Check out their press release.

http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=95365&reltype=Product&maxtor_section=press

[DoyleS]

A little disappointing to see no RGB output. At a price point greater than $1K I'll stick with my current OTA setup until there is significant programming available.

..Doyle

[P Smith]

Originally posted by marc_desforges
Maxtor just released a 250GB hard drive this week. So 1 drive is possible as per price for this drive is suppossed to be $399 MSRP.
Check out their press release.

http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=95365&reltype=Product&maxtor_section=press
I saw info about the HDD month ago - it's hidden , check this link (http://www.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/desktop/diamondmax_16/specifications.htm) and click on "Model Numbers"
also 320 GB disks here (http://www.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/enterprise_applications/maxline_ii/specifications.htm)

[MattJ]

The way the description is worded it sounds like the 921 will not support a display (like Mits or Hit) on the IEEE1394 port. Is this true or just the way it appears from the limited information?

Thanks

[sampatterson]

If the rumor is true, $2000 is a lot for a TV tuner/PVR. Unfortunately if you want "power tools" before they are "commodity", then you have to pay. Time to start saving for the next toy!

[James_F]

It can't be $2000. Dish isn't in business for highline equipment. Its got to be half that IMO. Dish doesn't make money selling 1000 of these things they make it by selling 100,000 of them.

[jeffwtux]

If the 921 is any more than $600 more than the 9000, then it isn't worth it. For less than $400, you can get an additional 120GB USB HD AND a DVD-Read/Write drive. Plus, the $200 left could pay for an additional 508.

[rowdymon]

Originally posted by Chris Blount

There is a work around for that. It's not perfect but better than having to turn on your 501.

When you manually tune ANALOG channels into the 6000, it will have a radio button to associate it with a network. You have 4 choices, ABS, CBS, NBC or Other. Associate the big 3 with the appropriate channel. Then you will see programming info ONLY FROM 7-10 PM in your guide NEXT TO THE ANALOG CHANNELS.

Then, auto tune your digital channels which should show up right next to or near your manually tuned analog channels in the guide. Then, from 7-10 PM, you will have programming info in the guide right next to your digital stations.

One thing to remember, the program info is NOT listed along with the local digital channel. It is associated to the analog channel so when you go to put in your analog channels, do it manually. DO NOT USE THE AUTO SCAN FEATURE. DO use the autoscan feature for your local digital channels.

This will only work if you subscribe to your local channels through Dish and they are working on your 6000.

Another thing you can try is subscribe to your local stations through Dish then create a Favorites list with the Dish locals and your digital locals in them. Then, when you hit the guide button, you can see what's on.

Hmm.. I guess that could work, but I doubt it'll work for me. I'm using a Silversensor UHF-only antenna. I don't think I can pick up any analog VHF channels at all. So no channel = no guide. But I'm still going to try it. It'll still be annoying as hell though trying to change channels though; i like just moving from one channel to the other and if I do what ur saying, I'll have to first skip over a 'bad' channel.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The Trick will work even if you dont have Analog stations available, just program radom analog stations next to your Digital Stations, then set them to ABC CBS or NBC in the Analog settings, and boom you now have network listings next to your Digital Channels. :)

I really do wish that the Dish 6000 would support the PSIP Guide information sent by stations.

[rowdymon]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
The Trick will work even if you dont have Analog stations available, just program radom analog stations next to your Digital Stations, then set them to ABC CBS or NBC in the Analog settings, and boom you now have network listings next to your Digital Channels. :)

I really do wish that the Dish 6000 would support the PSIP Guide information sent by stations.

What do you mean it would work even if I didn't have analog stations availabe? Don't I have to get the guide info from the analog signal 'from the air'?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Nope by setting up an alog channel then assigning it a Network in the Settings it will pull the network program listings from satellite. :)

You local shows won't show up but all the prime time shows will. :)

[rowdymon]

OK, I set them up, but I can't check until later on tonight. Hopefully it works, thanks!

[Mike123abc]

I find that if I have the proper call letters for the local stations on the 6000 that I get guide info for the the entire day. It only gives the browse function at certain times (probably only during prime time) but if you press the info button it properly shows the information. I am in DMA about 143 and Dish does not carry the local channels, but do carry the guide info.

[thescrub]

Originally posted by MattJ
The way the description is worded it sounds like the 921 will not support a display (like Mits or Hit) on the IEEE1394 port. Is this true or just the way it appears from the limited information?

Thanks

I'm hoping that new like the following means that it will be fully Havi.

http://www.havi.org/news/inthenews/Vividlogic_Echostar_Press_Release.pdf

[MattJ]

thescrub, thanks for the link.
I saw that back when it 1st came out but could not remeber the company name. It sounds like from the press release that Echostar has been working with Vividlogic for some time, so hopefully its in the 921 box.

Also, AVHDD is mentioned. I saw a press release around the Cedia time frame that a company was releasing some AVHDD's with Firewire interface. Might be a good add on for the JVC, or even the 211.

[MattJ]

The AVHDD I referenced above is from Indigita - www.indigita.com

[Kagato]

Originally posted by dmodemd
Start With
Model 721 = $550

Now Add (in retail $):
HD Decoding Chipsets ($300x2): $600
8PSK: $100
8VSB: $150
250GB: $250
IEEE 1394: $75
Software: $300 (incl. Open TV port from 721, 8VSB, IEEE1394 out, HD functions, DVI out)
DVI $100

Total: $2125

Now show me how they can do it under $1999?

(One way they may try and save $ is to have only one tuner/8VSB HD capable)


Hold on there.

Let's adjust a little bit. First off, you can strike the $600 for the HD decoder chipset. The Broadlogic chipset in the 721 that handles all the encoding, encrypting, decoding, decrptying, and PVR functions is HD capible. It's only limitation is it can't do HD PIP. Which is the exact same limitation I see listed for the 921. 1394 retail price is a bit high. $39 seem more in line with the retail channel these days. I don't know why a DVI port would cost $100 as is seems to be standard on a lot of sub $100 video cards these days.

I agree with the hard drive upgrade at least in the begining. And actually on the software costs as well. Mostly because I think first year sales will be fairly low.

Base $550 +
8PSK: $100
8VSB: $150
250GB: $250
IEEE 1394: $39
Software: $300
DVI $20

Retail: $1409

Of course there are huge cost saving for integrating the 8PSK and 8VSB into the design. You're looking more like $40 for the two chips. Assuming there isn't a single chip solution out there already. I'd say the actual hardware upcharge to Dish is $315, which will drop each month as HDs get cheaper. Add to that engineering costs of $300 assuming sales of 5000 units in a year.

I think in better times Dish would eat a big chunk, but considering the way the merger went I don't think Charlie is going to cut his small (but profitable) market much slack.

[Eyedox]

I agree ... I just can't see EchoStar pricing the new box out of the market like that. Think of the millions they will lose if only a few hundred people can afford to buy it. They can make it up in bulk if they do $1499. I really believe that the PVR921 will MSRP for $1499, and will release around 2Q03.
JVC is making a HUGE mistake by not integrating a larger hard drive, and lacking a 8VSB OTA tuner, if you ask me.
I wonder if the JVC one will have their AV SYSTEMLINK connectivity to other JVC products.

[Lee L]

Another pricing question. By assuming a base price of $550, the cost of the 721 and then adding $300 for software, aren't you counting the software twice? Or are you assuming that there will be another $300 in SW costs above what is already on the 721.

[Eyedox]

Interesting thought ... though both the JVC TU-PVR9000 and the DISH PVR921 have dual satellite tuners, I'd bet money that there are 2 Standard Def sat tuners and only 1 High Def tuner in the boxes. Hence, you can record 2 SD shows at once, or PIP with two SD shows, but no PIP with HD, nor record 2 HD shows at once. Also, if they did theoretically HAVE 2 HD tuners in the box, would the hard drive be able to handle that much bandwidth to record 2 HD shows at once?

[Scott Greczkowski]

From what I understand (and I am sure my contacts will correct me) it WILL have two HD tuners.

However the unit will not be able to do PIP in HD Mode.

That's my understanding anyway. :D

[DarrellP]

Originally posted by rowdymon
Anyone know if OTA channel descriptions will be included within the guide for the 921? Right now the 6000 doesn't give me the names (or the descriptions) of any shows that I watch thru the OTA module. It's really annoying. I have to flip on the 501, go to the locals and see the description.
rowdymon, you're doing it the hard way. Since you already subscribe to locals, just create a Locals favorite and stick your Dish locals in there with your OTA Digital channels and you won't have to switch receivers to see what's on.

[dmodemd]

Originally posted by Lee L
Another pricing question. By assuming a base price of $550, the cost of the 721 and then adding $300 for software, aren't you counting the software twice? Or are you assuming that there will be another $300 in SW costs above what is already on the 721.

There is going to be incremental software development over the 721 thats for sure. I think I detailed some of the incremental functionality in my original post (in parens).

I agree that they arent going to try and sell a $2000 product. I bet you they are going to keep working on this product but delay it to a point where the price of the components come down. They will develop an interim product - probably single tuner HD-PVR with built in 8PSK of course and optional 8VSB. This will get the price down to the $999 range.

HD is coming down into the mainstream slowwly but they better have a product available soon - especially as HD cable is now rolling out faster now that FCC is pushing it.

[Eyedox]

So since it DOES have 2 HD tuners ... will it be able to record 2 HD events at once?? Can it handle the bandwidth for similtaneous HD recording x 2?

[dmodemd]

I am sure they are trying that now and scratching their heads :)

I would bet they will run into some technical issues that will force them to abandon dual HD tuning for now.

[Doc]

I have a Mitsubishi ws65907 and I was considering installing their "Promise Module" (available Dec 2002. It has an OTA decoder, cable decoder and IEEE port. I then saw information about the JVC 9000 and the Dish pvr 921. Would one be able to record OTA signals from the Mitsubishi to the JVC 9000 through the IEEE port? Or would the PVR 921 be a better bet. The price of the "Promise Module: ($995) and the JVC 9000 ~ $1000 would approximate the PVR 921 ~$2000. THe only apparent differences seem to be that one option gives me an IEEE port on the TV (which I presently don't have) , and the other gives me a larger hard drive (which I may be able to increase in the future). Although no units have been released, do you think that analog OTA signals from the Mitsubishi would appear on the IEEE port in digital form and could they therefore be recorded on the JVC 9000 ? Can any digital signal be recorded from the IEEE port on either the JVC 9000 or PVR 921? After spending that kind of money I certainly would like to see a lot of flexibility in the units.
Thanks for any additional info.

[Kagato]

The think the term HD Turner would be a bit misleading. I don't claim to be an DBS engineer, but it would seem that the "tuner" would simply pull the analog signal off the transponder and convert it to a base digital format.

From there is would be passed to into the correct Decoder. DVB, 8VSB, 8PSK, etc.

IF the PVR is simply writing the digital stream to the hard drive then you would only need a single HD decoding chip in the box. Which would cost less.

IF on the other hand you would have to pass the stream to the decoder and then write a neutral MPEG stream to the Hard Drive, then you would need two of everything.

I suspect the Q2 could be based on a number of factors.

1) Software Devel is behind. (Yeah, I said it would be done in 6 months, but that's 9 IT months :) ) As a software engineer myself I know how this can go.

2) Waiting for costs to go down. The price on the decoder chips and the hard drives can only go DOWN. Assuming the same number of people who would buy the 921 next month would 6 months from now, Dish can only gain money by waiting. It not like they are facing any big presure from DirecTV here. At least not yet.

[Jackienopay]

here are some pictures I found of the 921:

http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-014S.JPG
http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-015S.JPG
http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-016S.JPG
http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-018S.JPG

[James_F]

That things huge! Does it have tubes in it. :eek2:

[Scott Greczkowski]

That 921 will look like the 721, those photos showed the 921 in its early stages. :) Thank god it will not look like that. :D

[James_F]

Am I missing the component output? I see the s-video, but.... :confused:

[Scott Greczkowski]

Those were mock up units that were thrown together for the show. They didn't even work. :)

[drjake]

My rep at Dish predicted that the pricing for the 921 would be around $1000.

[Jacob S]

Can u imagine how big it would be if it DID have tubes in it?

[rsilvers]

Originally posted by mnassour


Hmm...let's see....if a true 1080i signal takes up six times the bandwidth of NTSC, then your 120 gig drive is the equivalent of a 20 gig drive in the old DishPlayer.

Ugh.:(

I calculated that a 200GB drive will give about 18 hours of HDTV. I can live with that.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Those were mock up units that were thrown together for the show. They didn't even work. :)

Wow and they won awards?

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Can u imagine how big it would be if it DID have tubes in it?

I once saw a CD player with tubes, but just for the buffer amp stage. It wasn't much bigger than a regular CD player.

[bobh]

with 1394 hookup will be able to download to DVHS tape on the JVC DVHS recorder.

[santellavision]

If you hookup a DVHS with firewire and play the tape back, will it output through DVI and component as well?

[Mark Lamutt]

Hey Ernie - nice to see a familiar Denver face around here! :)

Unfortunately I have no idea as to the answer to your question...

[Atoyot]

They need to have pass thru component ports on the back of this unit so that I can hook my XBOX into it and then the 921 into the back of the TV. That would be way cool to be able to record my XBOX games onto it as well to show off to my buds when they come over. I was going to buy a 721, but since the announcement of the 921 I am waiting. Any clue on when it will finally get here? I need something to replace my old 4000 unit which is getting WAY slow on the guide listings and info.

Atoyot

[Jason]

Atoyot,

Don't hold your breath waiting for the 921! Echostar is notorious for postponing release dates on all of their new receivers. They are saying Spring 2003 which in reality means September 2003 at the very earliest.

[mattmcg]

So, I've got a question. I have a 721 that is directly hooked up to an HDTV compatible big screen TV and use the analog out on the 721 to connect to my upstairs television (in other words, both TVs are fed signal from 1 721).

In dealing with HD channels, if I switched the 921 to an HD channel (for sake of discussion, CBS HD here in San Fran), how would the two TVs handle it?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Matt, I dont know the answer to your question, but I am guessing that if it doe have RF outputs it will be like the Dish 6000 and it wont be able to putput SD and HD at the same time.

[John Corn]

Thanks Scott, I'm like matt. If I decide to get a HDTV and a 921 I would have the same setup.

[Martyva]

The current DVHS unit doesn't have DVI out only component, composit and s and 1394 in/out.

[Martyva]

I may have missed something, but I thought the 2 tuners were 1 HD and one SD on both pieces.

[davhol]

No, according to the "specs" which have posted thus far to this forum, the two satellite tuners BOTH are capable of decoding HD or SD satellite channels, the third tuner is for analog AND digital (and HD) off-air broadcasts.

[Eyedox]

You can RECORD 2 HD signals at once WHILE WATCHING a third off the PVR.

[Cyclone]

I guess that opens up a bunch of odd questions like if it was be able to do a small SD pic in a large HD pic?

I'd still like a cheap HD alternative. Like a 501 HD unit. 1 Hardrive, 8VSB/8PSK compatible. Under $500.

I'd sure like a Navigator, but there's a Bronco in my Driveway.

[Cyclone]

http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-018S.JPG

Oh and one more thing. I hope that they remember that the 921 is most likely going to be connected to a 16:9 HDTV screen and that they size the menu accordingly. None of that old 4:3 stuff. In this pic the top looks a little cut off.

Cyclone

[atoyot]

Yup, 16x9 is the only way to go. Boy I hope it is spring and not fall. I need one of these. The slow info times and guide showing unavailable in my view sucks!!!

[djlong]

I'll have a 921 long before I have a 16x9 TV.

I'm looking to replace my Dishplayer this year and a 921, especially if you can add storage to it, looks like it's good and "future-proof".

[sampatterson]

I hope that Dish does more "stretch/zoom/normal/gray bar" modes for the 921 than the 6000 has (for stretching 4x3 or letterboxed content). The current stretch stretches the whole 4x3 picture to 16x9. It would be nice if they had some of the other modes like Toshiba, Sony, etc have that leave the middle of the picture less stretched and stretchs the sides more. I have gotten used to it, but I like the "progressive stretching" better than the full stretch. My 2 HDTV's won't do any of its internal stretch modes when using the component HD inputs so I rely on the E* box to do it.

[Atoyot]

I've found that on my Mitsu 16x9 that the "progressive stretching" is OK for stationary shots, but when the camera is panning across a scene, or following a chase it looks way weird and can be very weird on the brain. What really cracks me up is watching the news and seeing how large the sholder near the edge of the screen gets. Funny stuff.

[sampatterson]

Yea, either normal stretch or progressive stretch takes some getting used to. The progressive seems better for my eyes (ok, really my wife's eyes). I have an older Mits and it doesn't have a progressive stretch mode (only stretch, partial zoom and zoom (kindly like the 6000) and when using the component inputs for HD none of those modes work anyway. That is the main reason why I hope the 921 can do more modes than the 6000, because my TVs can't when using the HD inputs (Mits55905/Toshiba 36").