Missing NFL broadcast on ch 88

[ExCavTanker]

With all the great minds on this forum I know someone knows the answer.

This year just like last, D* is NOT showing the 1pm NFC game on ch 88, but will show it on 89 (which of course I don't get). Contrast that with the AFC which showed the game on both 80 and 81.

Now the 4pm game IS showing on both 88 and 89, why can't they get their act together and show the 1pm NFC game on both 88 and 89?

[RAD]

Never could figure out all their blackout rules, but curious how you're getting both 88 and 89 since D* was shutting down one or the other, folks weren't supposed to have both anymore.

[ExCavTanker]

Never could figure out all their blackout rules, but curious how you're getting both 88 and 89 since D* was shutting down one or the other, folks weren't supposed to have both anymore.

That's my point, I only get the East coast feeds and have not been able to watch the 1pm NFC games in HD. I'm sure someone will say, get NFL ST, not at the current prices though.

[Chandu]

I don't have any such channel numbered 88, and I'm not missing anything.

[Nick]

Channel 88 doesn't exist on my listings either. :shrug:

[RAD]

88 is the FOX HD DNS feed from LA.

[paulman182]

88 is the FOX HD DNS feed from LA.

88 is Fox from NY, not LA.:)

Is it D* that blacked it out or did the local NY Fox station just not show it?

[purtman]

Guys, this is a D*-specific issue. Throw it out there.

[RAD]

88 is Fox from NY, not LA.:)

Is it D* that blacked it out or did the local NY Fox station just not show it?

Yep, sorry, 89 is LA FOX.

[ExCavTanker]

Same darn thing again today, I do wonder though if it's a simple matter of lack of bandwidth. The fact that they have to shut down various SD channels for the NFL ST would explain it. The truth will be revealed once D10 goes live.

[RAD]

OK, are you saying that channel 88 was turned off, there was no programming, or just that a game wasn't shown? If the channel was on with other programming but no game then it's due to NFL rules about what gets shown where, not a bandwidth issue.

[Lord Vader]

Guys, this is a D*-specific issue. Throw it out there.

This is not a D* issue. Channel 88 is the HD feed of whatever the NY FOX station is broadcasting. Channel 89 is the HD feed of whatever the L.A. FOX station is broadcasting. Both channels rarely show the same game at the same time. If they do, that decision is made out of FOX's national HQ in NY. The NY feed would show whatever's relevant to its market area. The L.A. feed would show whatever is relevant to its market area. Considering the two markets are some 3000+ miles apart, rarely shall the two coincide.

[ExCavTanker]

This is not a D* issue. Channel 88 is the HD feed of whatever the NY FOX station is broadcasting. Channel 89 is the HD feed of whatever the L.A. FOX station is broadcasting. Both channels rarely show the same game at the same time. If they do, that decision is made out of FOX's national HQ in NY. The NY feed would show whatever's relevant to its market area. The L.A. feed would show whatever is relevant to its market area. Considering the two markets are some 3000+ miles apart, rarely shall the two coincide.


I am fully aware that they are 3000 miles apart and show what is relevant to their respective markets. Well, guess what, BOTH 88 AND 89 are showing the Giants/Redskins game! Also, while there are plenty of 4pm AFC games (eastern time) including the Raiders on right now, NEITHER 80 or 81 are showing ANY games.

Again, my point is in the past there used to be HD games at 1pm AND 4pm on both FOX and whatever network carried the AFC, whether they were different or the same games was not my point, but starting last year that practice ended.

Is it bandwidth, is it the NFL or is it D* limiting the number of HD games one can watch during the day to force the purchase of NFL ST and Superfan?

[Lord Vader]

They're BOTH showing the Giants/Resdkins game because that's FOX's national game of the week, just as the Bears was earlier in the season against San Diego.

It's not D*, bandwidth, or anything else except an individual network's exclusivity. Each week it's either CBS or FOX who has a national broadcast "doubleheader" day where that network gets to showcase a game nationwide (if they want) during the later time slot (4:15 EDT/3:15 EDT). For reasons left solely to the network's discretion, they can alter the second game or choose to not go ahead with it if they so desired.

[ExCavTanker]

They're BOTH showing the Giants/Resdkins game because that's FOX's national game of the week, just as the Bears was earlier in the season against San Diego.

It's not D*, bandwidth, or anything else except an individual network's exclusivity. Each week it's either CBS or FOX who has a national broadcast "doubleheader" day where that network gets to showcase a game nationwide (if they want) during the later time slot (4:15 EDT/3:15 EDT). For reasons left solely to the network's discretion, they can alter the second game or choose to not go ahead with it if they so desired.

OK, so the NFL is the one that that is preventing both networks from showing both a 1pm AND 4pm game?

[Lord Vader]

Most likely. NFL rules stipulate what the networks can and cannot show.

[RAD]

OK, so the NFL is the one that that is preventing both networks from showing both a 1pm AND 4pm game?

Check http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-03-FOX1.html which shows what areas in the country get to see what early Fox game today. You'll notice that the area around NYC has no game being shown, same for around Boston and Houston.

[ExCavTanker]

Check http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-03-FOX1.html which shows what areas in the country get to see what early Fox game today. You'll notice that the area around NYC has no game being shown, same for around Boston and Houston.


That map IS the answer, it's the NFL that's pulling this nice little trick. The crazy thing is, they divided my State (Michigan) into two and only the people on the East side of the State get the Cin/Sea game on CBS while those of us on the West side get mountain biking, woohoo! Last I checked we enjoyed football just as much on this side of the State:). Just based on the distribution map, it appears that the selections are made with as much sense as if the Federal Gov't did it! Also, based on that map, it wouldn't matter if my local networks were in HD (they are not currently) I still wouldn't have an HD game in the afternoon. Now that it's been established that it's the NFL, the question is still WHY when we used to have HD at 1pm and 4pm.

[Stewart Vernon]

This is not a D* issue.

Since it would appear you are talking about Sunday Ticket... it most definately is a DirecTV issue and not a general one since folks on Dish or cable can't get the channels you are talking about.

You might get quicker and more reliable help from the folks who read/post in the DirecTV forum regularly.

[RAD]

Since it would appear you are talking about Sunday Ticket... it most definately is a DirecTV issue and not a general one since folks on Dish or cable can't get the channels you are talking about.

You might get quicker and more reliable help from the folks who read/post in the DirecTV forum regularly.

The OP said he doesn't have NFL-ST, costs too much.

[Lord Vader]

Since it would appear you are talking about Sunday Ticket... it most definately is a DirecTV issue and not a general one since folks on Dish or cable can't get the channels you are talking about.

No it's not. DirecTV does not choose which games will be broadcast on channels 88/89. That's a FOX/NFL issue. Sunday Ticket is irrelevant here.

[DarkAudit]

Since it would appear you are talking about Sunday Ticket... it most definately is a DirecTV issue and not a general one since folks on Dish or cable can't get the channels you are talking about.

You might get quicker and more reliable help from the folks who read/post in the DirecTV forum regularly.

This is not a Sunday Ticket issue, this is a NY and LA NFL market issue. Channels 88 and 89 are FOX stations in New York and Los Angeles. If the Jets or Giants are at home for a game, the station not carrying the game will not have a game on opposite. Same goes here for the Steelers. If they're at home and the game is on KDKA, WPGH will not have a game on at the same time.

It has absolutely nothing to do with D* in this case.

[ExCavTanker]

The OP said he doesn't have NFL-ST, costs too much.

Correct!

[ExCavTanker]

This is not a Sunday Ticket issue, this is a NY and LA NFL market issue. Channels 88 and 89 are FOX stations in New York and Los Angeles. If the Jets or Giants are at home for a game, the station not carrying the game will not have a game on opposite. Same goes here for the Steelers. If they're at home and the game is on KDKA, WPGH will not have a game on at the same time.

It has absolutely nothing to do with D* in this case.

OK, we've established it's not a NFL ST issue, that still doesn't explain why HD games are not carried at both 1pm and 4pm by the respective Fox networks AND CBS networks when there are actually NFC and AFC games being played at those times and broadcast in HD from the stadiums!

This also REALLY became an issue when the ruling came down that we could no longer receive the East and West HD feeds (80/81 and 88/89) as that used to give me a GREAT selection of HD football to watch on Sunday.


OT, While I bleed Maize and Blue, I have to admit, your Mountaineers are playing outstanding ball!

[Stewart Vernon]

Sunday Ticket or not... the very first post is about DirecTV since he mentions specific channel numbers and D* by name. I wasn't complaining, merely suggesting that posting this in the DirecTV forum might get quicker and better answers than a general forum since us folks with Dish or cable don't have the channel numbers in specific that he was mentioning.

[Doug Brott]

I know here in San Francisco, each week, there are basically three games on during the day. Two for either FOX or CBS (depending on the week) and one for the other station that week.

The games that are shown depend on a lot of different factors. With two teams out here, many times one of the three is San Francisco and the another is Oakland. That changes, of course, when either or both of those teams are on Sunday or Monday nights.

Since both the NY & LA "locals" have to abide by the same decision criteria as the stations here in San Francisco, it is very likely that they just do things differently than you expect. Since LA has no local football team, they can just pick whichever games they think will be the most popular. It's LA and that may or may not fit into the plans of your area.

The only sure-fire way to get what you are looking for is to get NFL Sunday Ticket. And even then, if the game is on your local station, then it won't be available on Sunday Ticket. I rarely have that issue as I don't watch either San Francisco or Oakland even though I live here. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of the station heads of LA & NY (and possibly your local provider if you have that as well).

[HoosierBoy]

This is not a Sunday Ticket issue, this is a NY and LA NFL market issue. Channels 88 and 89 are FOX stations in New York and Los Angeles. If the Jets or Giants are at home for a game, the station not carrying the game will not have a game on opposite. Same goes here for the Steelers. If they're at home and the game is on KDKA, WPGH will not have a game on at the same time.

It has absolutely nothing to do with D* in this case.


This is 100% correct.

[NYSmoker]

OK, we've established it's not a NFL ST issue, that still doesn't explain why HD games are not carried at both 1pm and 4pm by the respective Fox networks AND CBS networks when there are actually NFC and AFC games being played at those times and broadcast in HD from the stadiums!

This also REALLY became an issue when the ruling came down that we could no longer receive the East and West HD feeds (80/81 and 88/89) as that used to give me a GREAT selection of HD football to watch on Sunday.


OT, While I bleed Maize and Blue, I have to admit, your Mountaineers are playing outstanding ball!

The Jets were on channel 2 CBS at 1pm, therefore, thanks to blackout rules NY can not have a game on Fox. The channel you are attempting to watch is a broadcast from NY.

[GeorgeLV]

OK, we've established it's not a NFL ST issue, that still doesn't explain why HD games are not carried at both 1pm and 4pm by the respective Fox networks AND CBS networks when there are actually NFC and AFC games being played at those times and broadcast in HD from the stadiums!


Because their contract with the NFL stipulates that CBS and Fox alternate double header weeks. It's the normal state of affairs that one of the stations will have only one game.

[DarkAudit]

Because their contract with the NFL stipulates that CBS and Fox alternate double header weeks. It's the normal state of affairs that one of the stations will have only one game.

And in cases like NY, a Jets or Giants home game will sometimes preclude having a doubleheader even when scheduled.

[spiderman865]

Well said. Been this way for ever.

[STEVED21]

This why, if you want to see football in NY, you need ST. Most weeks it only the Giants and Jets.

BTW, the channels in the 80's are not "national feeds". They are the New York and LA network affiiates.

[sdk009]

The same NFL television rules for the Sunday afternoon games have been in place for so many years, it still amazes me that people still do not understand them, including some contributing to this thread.

The two networks, CBS & Fox carry the Sunday afternoon games. CBS carries those games in which an AFC team is the road team, and Fox carries the games in which a NFC team is the road team. Usually the networks alternate double-header weeks, but there are occasions in which the same network will carry a double-header game two weeks in a row. In NY & SF, where there are two teams in each market, the local teams never play at the same time. However, contrary to what was previously posted, there have been occasions when there are games on the other network when the home market team(s) is playing on the road.
Other than the home team, it's also up to the network to decide which games will be shown in a particular market, even though a station manager can request a change.
There are also blackout rules that can determine which game can or cannot be shown in a particular market.
Most markets get three games a Sunday, with those having home games only allowed to show two, one from each network.
If you have more questions, visit nfl.com and search for the television rules.

[Lord Vader]

This why, if you want to see football in NY, you need ST. Most weeks it only the Giants and Jets.

BTW, the channels in the 80's are not "national feeds". They are the New York and LA network affiiates.

They are, indeed, national feeds because they are beamed nationally for those eligible to receive them. They just tend to originate from the primary source of a particular network.

[ExCavTanker]

Thanks for all of the info everyone has contributed. I realize my postings here will not bring me back more HD football without forking out the cash for NFL ST, however it's great therapy and you guys are WAY cheaper than a shrink:).

I have had network HD since it was turned on (NY and LA feeds), then the powers that be deemed that those of us East of the Mississippi could no longer receive the HD feed from the LA market and vice versa. NOTE, I am still able to receive the crappy SD feeds from LA so yes I can watch those games in glorious 480P on my 55" HD RPTV! I know I'm not alone in my frustration as I spoken to numerous friends that are in the same boat as I am.

After reading sdk009's post I felt like I was watching a shell game, no wonder people are still confused about the NFL's TV rules. Since I currently receive my network HD from NY, I'm at the mercy of the NFL's rules and the station manager's likes and dislikes and if you combine that with D*'s decision to cut us off from the LA HD feed, all roads lead to NFL ST. Good thing I'm not into conspiracy theories or I'd say everything thing was designed to milk that HUGE cash cow known as the NFL.

[Doug Brott]

They are, indeed, national feeds because they are beamed nationally for those eligible to receive them. They just tend to originate from the primary source of a particular network.

More to the point, they are the local feeds for either NY or LA and just happen to be the signals that DIRECTV chooses to deliver nationally (to those eligible).

[Lord Vader]

Then they are national feeds.

[STEVED21]

Then they are national feeds.

To repeat, they are New York and LA LOCAL stations that can be be received by some outside the designated markets. What ever you see wherever you are is exactly what I see with my OTA antenna. There is nothing national about them other than they show the network programs. Why is this so hard to understand.

Actually I have watched the NY locals in Aruba and the Bahamas. Does this make them international channels?

[Lord Vader]

Stations that beam signals nationally are consequently national feeds, their local origination notwithstanding.

[STEVED21]

Stations that beam signals nationally are consequently national feeds, their local origination notwithstanding.

I'll try one more time then I will quit. They, meaning the stations do NOT "beem" them nationally. D*, which has many CONUS feeds, allows some customers in accordance with the law to view those local channels.

Going back to your OP, these stations must follow the NFL programming rules as it applies to their city. Local teams must be shown and the doubleheader game can not go up against a local home game. It is not programmed as national.

[Lord Vader]

I'll try one more time then I will quit. .

Good. (http://www.derby.org/sounds/movies/vader/beaten.wav)

[DarkAudit]

Maybe this will be a bit clearer. In the old Primetime 24 days, the network channels were from Nashville, Seattle, San Francisco, and other places that I cannot recall at present. They were eventually replaced with NY stations for the East Coast, and LA for the West Coast.

They're still "local" stations, and D* has merely selected these stations as the ones they offer for customers who cannot receive their own market's locals and cannot sufficiently receive OTA broadcasts as well. (Not 100% sure about the last part... it involves waivers and whatnot)

A "national" feed would not interrupt network programming for a fire in Brooklyn or a chase on the 405. The NY and LA stations will.

[Lord Vader]

That's because they're national feeds that originate from and as the local NY and L.A. broadcasts. There's a reason why NY and L.A. are the two main ones.

[DarkAudit]

They're O&Os, just like many other stations around the country. CBS owns WCBS and KCBS. They own KDKA and WBZ as well.

PBS has a "national feed" on ch 384. The rest are just locals distributed to a wider area.