Grounding Help

[rjknyy]

I moved into a new home two weeks ago and had DirecTV come and install a Slimline dish. The install was interesting as they had to go through my bonus room to get to the smart box to install the 6x8 switch. My question is....the dish is roof mounted and has the four lines w/ the grounding wire going through my attic and into the bonus room where they are connected to the grounding block. From the there the four lines without the copper ground go into my smart box in the garage. Is my system properly grounded with the ground block in the bonus room and the copper ground ending there?

[jimmyv2000]

is there a ground wire going from the ground block TO your HOUSE GROUND Or A Cold water pipe? If not then call D* to have this fixed.

[K4SMX]

I moved into a new home two weeks ago and had DirecTV come and install a Slimline dish. The install was interesting as they had to go through my bonus room to get to the smart box to install the 6x8 switch. My question is....the dish is roof mounted and has the four lines w/ the grounding wire going through my attic and into the bonus room where they are connected to the grounding block. From the there the four lines without the copper ground go into my smart box in the garage. Is my system properly grounded with the ground block in the bonus room and the copper ground ending there?
No. You should have a #4 solid copper wire running by the most direct means possible from the dish on the roof to an 8' ground rod. Lightning should not be directed through your attic on the way to ground. Copper strap is better, if you can find it.

Your original installation should have routed your coaxial cables directly to your earth ground before entering your home. Even accomplishing the above will not guarantee you won't have damage in your situation, since you still have an alternate path to ground existing, but it's certainly a step up. There are virtually no precautions which can completely protect you from lightning damage with a roof-mounted antenna.

[tpbrady]

A solid copper #17 messenger strand when attached to a piece of single or dual RG6 is considered an acceptable ground for an antenna. It is attached to a ground block which is then bonded to the power service grounding electrode system using a #10 copper or #8 aluminum ground wire and a suitable U/L device. The ground block should be located a close as practical to the entrance to the home.

The only way you could use a ground rod is if it is back bonded to the power service grounding electrode system as specified in the NEC.

What it means in English is we took all the ground rods away from the installers, gave them messenger RG-6, some split bolts and corner clamps, and a roll of #10 copper with specific intructions to put the ground block near the electric meter.

[JeffBowser]

In my opinion, there is code and the perfect world, and there is reality. Reality of it is, the ground is simply there to bleed off any charge, and protect you against a possible short. It's not going to do squat for lightning. If you have a line to house ground, you're OK. I use a messenger line with my antenna, and an outside groundblock on the dish and RG6 tied into my pool ground with #6 copper, which is in turn tied to the house. In my case, it was not possible to run a ground to my meter, or to a cold water pipe, simply too far away with too many obstacles.

[jgreeson]

Not to threadjack or anything (actually I am), I have a three story townhouse and the dish is mounted on the A/C platform on the roof of the unit. There is no easy exterior access to ground the dish. The only source of ground in the entire unit is the black iron natural gas line. The closest point of contact to this iron pipe is in the attic, attached to the furnace.

Of course, DTV installers didn't attach any type of grounding situation on the initial install and I didn't bother going on my roof until a couple of months ago and noticed that the Dish isn't grounded.

My plan was to run #4-8 solid bare copper from the dish to the pipe in the attic, but it seems like everyone is advising against the routing of a ground wire into the attic. What should I do in this instance? I have about 10-12 feet of distance from dish to pipe and would need to cross a few wooden roof beams to reach it. Am I better off forgetting about attempting this or should I be ok with going this route?

[JeffBowser]

Personally, I'd go ahead and run your ground to this pipe - it's better than nothing.

Not to threadjack or anything (actually I am), I have a three story townhouse and the dish is mounted on the A/C platform on the roof of the unit. There is no easy exterior access to ground the dish. The only source of ground in the entire unit is the black iron natural gas line. The closest point of contact to this iron pipe is in the attic, attached to the furnace.

Of course, DTV installers didn't attach any type of grounding situation on the initial install and I didn't bother going on my roof until a couple of months ago and noticed that the Dish isn't grounded.

My plan was to run #4-8 solid bare copper from the dish to the pipe in the attic, but it seems like everyone is advising against the routing of a ground wire into the attic. What should I do in this instance? I have about 10-12 feet of distance from dish to pipe and would need to cross a few wooden roof beams to reach it. Am I better off forgetting about attempting this or should I be ok with going this route?

[K4SMX]

Not to threadjack or anything (actually I am), I have a three story townhouse and the dish is mounted on the A/C platform on the roof of the unit. There is no easy exterior access to ground the dish. The only source of ground in the entire unit is the black iron natural gas line. The closest point of contact to this iron pipe is in the attic, attached to the furnace.

Of course, DTV installers didn't attach any type of grounding situation on the initial install and I didn't bother going on my roof until a couple of months ago and noticed that the Dish isn't grounded.

My plan was to run #4-8 solid bare copper from the dish to the pipe in the attic, but it seems like everyone is advising against the routing of a ground wire into the attic. What should I do in this instance? I have about 10-12 feet of distance from dish to pipe and would need to cross a few wooden roof beams to reach it. Am I better off forgetting about attempting this or should I be ok with going this route?
I wouldn't be grounding to a GAS line! It's probably not your a/c equipment, but if it were, you could put a ground clamp on the copper refrigerant line at each end. Totally unorthodox, but effective way to get down three stories.... Definitely not code, but better than nothing.

[joe diamond]

Do not ground to a gas pipe.

Joe

[JeffBowser]

Actually. gas lines themselves are grounded, and is an NEC sanctioned ground: Section 250.104 of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70­2005)

[Coffey77]

#4 wire is WAY too much of an overkill. More than likely, your whole house isn't protected by a #4 wire. Depending on where you have to fish the wire through would dictate what type - stranded for more flexibility or solid if it's a pretty easy one. You really won't benefit much from anything greater than #14 THHN2. The ground should head back to the panel if possible but like others have said, if you have a solid copper waterline (which many people don't, it's copper until it gets outside I woudn't bank too much on where that copper goes) you can clamp it down onto there. You should have a grounding rod just outside where your panel is and that's your best place.

One of the above posters is correct. This is not a perfect world. ;)

[K4SMX]

Actually. gas lines themselves are grounded, and is an NEC sanctioned ground: Section 250.104 of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70*2005)
That may well be, but I have seen what happened to a gas line that conducted lightning. While it didn't rupture, it was heavily annealed and physically moved more than 4 inches in a short span, almost like somewhat reached down and pulled it. That was over 100 feet from the actual point it was struck by just one branch of the main bolt. The lightning had struck a palm tree on a golf tee. You could see the cracks in the grass radiating in several directions, one of which eventually got to a buried gas line. It ran down the line, around the buried tank, and then up another line to the house, where the above damage was noted. I wouldn't want to be 12' from that. Something to think about....

[ilfn143]

if you can't run a ground wire, ground your receiver will also ground/bleed off any static charges on your disc.

[JeffBowser]

Aye, there is no real protection against a close strike, but as I mentioned above, the point of grounding your DirecTV system has little to nothing to do with lightning. Lightning does not require, nor does it follow, a prescribed wire path. The #4 or #6 wire mentioned here will be fried open before it conducts anything substantial to the pipe. Remember - that lightning followed a charged path through nothing but air to get down, it doesn't care about our little wires :D


That may well be, but I have seen what happened to a gas line that conducted lightning. While it didn't rupture, it was heavily annealed and physically moved more than 4 inches in a short span, almost like somewhat reached down and pulled it. That was over 100 feet from the actual point it was struck by just one branch of the main bolt. The lightning had struck a palm tree on a golf tee. You could see the cracks in the grass radiating in several directions, one of which eventually got to a buried gas line. It ran down the line, around the buried tank, and then up another line to the house, where the above damage was noted. I wouldn't want to be 12' from that. Something to think about....

[K4SMX]

Aye, there is no real protection against a close strike, but as I mentioned above, the point of grounding your DirecTV system has little to nothing to do with lightning. Lightning does not require, nor does it follow, a prescribed wire path. The #4 or #6 wire mentioned here will be fried open before it conducts anything substantial to the pipe. Remember - that lightning followed a charged path through nothing but air to get down, it doesn't care about our little wires :DWell since the receiver itself is grounded at the wall outlet, I'm not sure what you think the purpose is of the coaxial cable grounding blocks, if not for lightning. I suppose the shield of the coax could perhaps turn "hot" by being accidentally shorted to 120v somewhere, such as after a windstorm. There is the issue of transient voltage differentials along the coax during a lightning strike, but that's still a lightning issue.

Actually, I have seen numerous cases over the years of lightning being successfully directed to a good earth ground through standard #4 solid copper or copper strap. We get a lot of chances to run Ben Franklin-type experiments down in Florida. You'd think a piece of copper would act like nothing more than a big fuse, but for whatever reason, it works. (You have to wonder what the hell Franklin was thinking about. Surely he'd seen many examples of the power of lightning before he pulled that stunt. Maybe that story is apocryphal....)

[K4SMX]

But to get back to the OP by rjknyy, I'm not sure from what he said that his grounding block is actually grounded to anything....

[ilfn143]

i have an hr20 and the power cord only have 2 prong (no earth ground)

Well since the receiver itself is grounded at the wall outlet, I'm not sure what you think the purpose is of the coaxial cable grounding blocks, if not for lightning. I suppose the shield of the coax could perhaps turn "hot" by being accidentally shorted to 120v somewhere, such as after a windstorm. There is the issue of transient voltage differentials along the coax during a lightning strike, but that's still a lightning issue.

Actually, I have seen numerous cases over the years of lightning being successfully directed to a good earth ground through standard #4 solid copper or copper strap. We get a lot of chances to run Ben Franklin-type experiments down in Florida. You'd think a piece of copper would act like nothing more than a big fuse, but for whatever reason, it works. (You have to wonder what the hell Franklin was thinking about. Surely he'd seen many examples of the power of lightning before he pulled that stunt. Maybe that story is apocryphal....)

[al2]

My dish was mounted on a pole. The installer did not ground anything. Does the pole provide the ground? :confused:

[ilfn143]

My dish was mounted on a pole. The installer did not ground anything. Does the pole provide the ground? :confused:

YES!

[K4SMX]

i have an hr20 and the power cord only have 2 prong (no earth ground)
Dang! Neither does mine. I've been messing with my H20's so much lately I didn't notice that. The case is, however, tied to the house ground nearby, because the coax is running through a 1,500 watt UPS, which does have a 3 prong plug. It is otherwise tied to the house ground anyway through the neutral line (the big prong on a polarized outlet), all the way back at the breaker box where the neutral is tied to the house ground.

[K4SMX]

My dish was mounted on a pole. The installer did not ground anything. Does the pole provide the ground? :confused:
Lightning will definitely pass through concrete. For installations where the long-term integrity of the concrete is an issue, however, a ground system is still attached, because concrete will crack. How likely, though, is your pole mount to be struck, unless there's nothing at all higher around it? I feel pretty safe with all the big trees around, except from possibly a secondary strike off of a nearby one.

[joe diamond]

Grounding to gas pipes is OK?

I gotta read it...............I'm still not gonna do it. I can see the headlines:
"Sat tech named Joe blows up house. Lightning directed to gas line by his actions!"

Gas line ground?

Go figure!

Joe

[rjknyy]

But to get back to the OP by rjknyy, I'm not sure from what he said that his grounding block is actually grounded to anything....


I do not believe that it is either. The copper wire ends at the grounding block which is in our bonus room. The 4 lines of rg6 then go to the multiswitch in the smart box. We do have a grounding rod, but it is not even close to where the dish is mounted(2nd story mount). At this point I can't even imagine a place for him to ground it unless he runs a new copper line down the back of my house and around the side to the rod which would be quite the eye sore.

[K4SMX]

I do not believe that it is either. The copper wire ends at the grounding block which is in our bonus room. The 4 lines of rg6 then go to the multiswitch in the smart box. We do have a grounding rod, but it is not even close to where the dish is mounted(2nd story mount). At this point I can't even imagine a place for him to ground it unless he runs a new copper line down the back of my house and around the side to the rod which would be quite the eye sore.
Great...a grounding block that's not grounded to anything. What would you guess is the total distance from the dish straight to the ground (with hopefully the nearby existing ground or a CW pipe), from there to the preferred POE to the house (and perhaps back to the current "non-grounding" block), and then on to your farthest receiver?

[JeffBowser]

Actually, the pole does not serve as a ground, unless it has 8 feet of contact below the surface, and is also bonded to the house ground. I know my pole has only 3 feet of contact, insufficient to be considered as a ground rod. By code, it would also have to be copper, not steel, although I am sure this varies with locality

YES!

[K4SMX]

Actually, the pole does not serve as a ground, unless it has 8 feet of contact below the surface, and is also bonded to the house ground. I know my pole has only 3 feet of contact, insufficient to be considered as a ground rod. By code, it would also have to be copper, not steel, although I am sure this varies with locality
Agree. It certainly would be a good idea to drive an 8' ground rod (from Lowe's/HD, etc.) right next to the pole and connect it to the dish with a piece of #4. If you can't get 8' into the ground, buy two 8' rods, cut them in half, drive all 4 into the ground in a box pattern about 18" apart, and bind them all together.

[vernonator]

So the installer is supposed to ground my dish? I have had 3 installs and NEVER had a ground installed. Are you saying that if I call D* they will come out and install a ground?

[JeffBowser]

:lol: There's a loaded question. I've always had to ground my own. DirecTV has always either ignored it, or faked it. Call them, though, tell them they are in code violation, they'll send someone quick (but in my case once, they just faked it :nono2: )

So the installer is supposed to ground my dish? I have had 3 installs and NEVER had a ground installed. Are you saying that if I call D* they will come out and install a ground?

[K4SMX]

So the installer is supposed to ground my dish? I have had 3 installs and NEVER had a ground installed. Are you saying that if I call D* they will come out and install a ground?
From the "DirecTV Antenna Installation Manual", front page, which is included in every dish shipping carton:

"Local and National electrical codes (NEC) require the antenna and the coaxial cables to be connected to a grounding electrode."

Additionally, almost every television owner's manual shows diagrams as to how outside antennas (applicable to dishes as well) are to be grounded