E* has "70" HD Channels

[vikerex]

This was copied from TVPredictions.com: http://www.tvpredictions.com/echotwo091307.htm


EchoStar: We Have 70 HDTV Channels!
The satcaster makes a case for being the HD leader.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (September 13, 2007) -- EchoStar says its Dish Network service is now offering 70 High-Definition channels.

While DIRECTV is generating headlines with its planned high-def expansion, the satcaster's rival says it's delivering HD in volume now.
...

National Channels
1. A&E HD
2. Animal Planet
3. Animania HD
4. Discovery HD
5. Discovery HD Theater
6. Equator HD
7. ESPN HD
8. ESPN2 HD
9. Family Room HD
10. Film Fest HD

11. Food Network HD
12. GamePlay HD
13. Gallery HD
14. Golf/Versus HD
15. HBO HD
16. Cinemax HD
17. HDNet
18. HDNet Movies
19. HDNews
20. HGTV HD

21. History Channel HD
22. Kung Fu HD
23. MHD
24. Monsters HD
25. National Geographic HD
26. NFL Network HD
27. Rave HD
28. Rush HD
29. Showtime HD
30. Starz HD

31. The Science Channel HD
32. TLC HD
33. TNT HD
34. Treasure HD
35. Ultra HD
36. Universal HD
37. WorldCinema HD
38. WorldSport HD
39. Big Ten Network HD

Regional Sports Channels
1. Prime Ticket
2. FSN Rocky Mountain
3. FSN Arizona
4. FSN Southwest
5. FSN West
6. FSN Midwest
7. FSN South
8. Sun Sports
9. FSN Florida
10. FSN Northwest

11. FSN Cincinnati
12. FSN Pittsburgh
13. CSN Chicago
14. FSN Detroit
15. Sports Time Ohio
16. FSN North
17. Sport South
18. SportsNet New York

EchoStar also has nine HD PPV channels and four local channels in high-def in many markets, bringing its total to 70 HD channels.

Edit [Tom Robertson]: Please, copyrighted material cannot be copied in total without permission of the copyright holder. I've reduced the content to excerpts plus the list (which typically can't be copyrighted.) I've also included a link to the original source.

[Smthkd]

So, do ever E* sub have access to those RSN's? If not then this number of "70" HD channels is misrepresented! D*'s RSN will be National not SpotBeam!

[DCSholtis]

Take away VOOM and the fact their RSNs are not on a CONUS beam but rather on a spot beam. I'll stick with D*.

[syphix]

Is D* counting RSN's, baseball & football channels in their 100-150 channel projections??

[Mixer]

The list of 39 nationlas is certainly impressive but I have to laugh that they would even dare include channels that some do not have the ability to receive.

That is just......balls, and if D* does it then they are wrong too.

[Earl Bonovich]

And sure... while DirecTV is waiting for more carriers, guess they could fire up 50 or so HD PPV's...

IMHO: HD PPV should not be counted as a channel. On either network.

RSN's... there is an argument there to be made for both cases.

[Sirshagg]

Take away VOOM and the fact their RSNs are not on a CONUS beam but rather on a spot beam. I'll stick with D*.

No, no, no. Let them keep Voom, RSN's, and PPV. Then D* can count all the HD LIL they are providing and we'll see who has more channels.

[Stuart Sweet]

It's an impressive list but ours will be more impressive, and soon.

[gct]

Just in case you haven't noticed, low-blow Charlie Ergen and associates have been running scared for several months now. You can expect the BS level to keep increasing.

E* is losing its best revenue customers to D* in droves, so get prepared for a cloud of BS as they attempt to slow the stampede.

[rkjg24]

I have one thing to say to E*...

*yawn*

[bbaleno]

all I have to say is "Good for them"

Numbers can be interpreted how ever you want. Its up to each Subscriber to decide if who has the most channels for them. if Provider A has 1000 HD Crap Channels, and Proveider B has 1 HD Channel the Sub realy wants. then in reality B has more for that sub

[Jhon69]

E* also plans to change BTN to a RSN in 2008.So it looks like Charlie's back to his
smoke&mirrors tactics.:rolleyes:

[Mikey]

Take away VOOM and the fact their RSNs are not on a CONUS beam but rather on a spot beam. I'll stick with D*.E* counting HD RSNs and HD PPV is bogus, but they are on CONUS transponders.

[Koz]

I don't think counting HD RSN's is crap as long as everyone can get them. Yes, I understand most of the sports programming is blacked out, but I enjoy all the highlight and recap shows from my favorite teams from back home. And also the college hockey which is never blocked out. Will any of this be in HD? I have no idea, but I'm sure it will be eventually. And with D*, I'll have the opportunity to watch it when it is.
I have no idea if E* broadcasts all the RSN's nationwide. But if they don't, then I agree that counting them is crap.

[say-what]

And your point is?????

Nice for E*. But I'll be staying with DirecTV.

BTW, that list, including the 9 PPV, only totals 66. :)

[GeorgeLV]

E* counting HD RSNs and HD PPV is bogus, but they are on CONUS transponders.

You forget the part about half of them being on the 61.5 orbital position and half on the 129 orbital position. You can not receive all of the E* RSNs with any standard HD dish configuration.

[Earl Bonovich]

All the companies are going to "cook" their HD numbers...
DirecTV included... There are going to be "twists" to the way they get their counts.

The key is... that you as a consumer know that the "count" isn't what really matters to you... but what you can access as a consumer, what you get the most value for your $$... and what you as a consumer can actually count...

Should DirecTV each and ever Sunday Ticket HD game as a channel? Even though it is only available for a few hours on Sunday?

How about the Big Ten HD Sub-Channels for the games?
How about the MLB HD Games... Extra Feeds for US Open ?

Should VOOM channels count? given that they are highly Repetative... and pre-close to a pre-paid for PPV type networks? (from what I have seen of the show selection of VOOM)...

To me... it is what I get 24/7 for my base package price.... no extra for PPV... no extra for extended sports packages.... and frankly, if I get the channels I want...

Eventually (hopefully) everyone will be HD... and the counts won't matter...as it will revert back to who carries what channel..

[John W]

I'm a Dish customer and what I really enjoy is a receiver that will allow me access to and place in my guide any digital ota signal (where you see the true & perfect network HD) I can pick up. And its been that way for years.

[Earl Bonovich]

I'm a Dish customer and what I really enjoy is a receiver that will allow me access to and place in my guide any digital ota signal (where you see the true & perfect network HD) I can pick up. And its been that way for years.

Let me know how First Run Stargate Atlantis looks in HD on that OTA, so I can compare.

There is only "so much" content on OTA.

[Thaedron]

Eventually (hopefully) everyone will be HD... and the counts won't matter...as it will revert back to who carries what channel..

It's going to be a long and twisted road before we get to the promised land...

[markrubi]

Just in case you haven't noticed, low-blow Charlie Ergen and associates have been running scared for several months now. You can expect the BS level to keep increasing.

E* is losing its best revenue customers to D* in droves, so get prepared for a cloud of BS as they attempt to slow the stampede.

Do you have any hard numbers?? Both providers have churn. Has either D or E come out stating one is losing or gaining subs in huge numbers right now?

[pinchweasel]

Good! Competition is good... more content offered by competitors of directv puts pressure on directv to add more value to their service.

[Tom Robertson]

To me a channel is any channel that:
Broadcasts Video 24/365.2425
Is broadcast nationally
Is available in a base package or available for purchase as a full-time channel (not PPV)


I do believe the following qualify as countable channels:

Base Cable channels: news, sports, shopping, toon, retro, religious
Premium movie channels
Premium sports networks that are available nationally to all who choose to subscribe
BabyFirstTv, a single channel package
Voom, even as repetitive as they are


What I don't think should count:

PPV channels as they can't be subscribed to (generally speaking)
Most adult channels on DIRECTV as they are really PPV
Seasonal Sports channels: NFL ST, MLBEI, CI, etc. Not 24 nor 365
Music only channels. (But I don't mind packages listing them separately, that is fair.)


Cheers,
Tom

[506PIR]

Numbers dont really matter to me. Quality does. I'd personally be happy with fewer channels to get the best possible PQ . But thats just my opinion.

[Tugboat]

Agree. This entire HD channel number battle is bogus. Show of hands...how many people will watch/record more than 12-14 HD channels regularly?

It's ridiculous, really. And Directv is as bad as cable is as bad as Dish. Why don't they just drop trou and have Brian Roberts, Chase Carey and Charlie Ergen get our the ruler. It's just as valid, though a disgusting analogy, no?

[DrZaiusATL]

Remember that most of the VOOM nets were upconverts with very little native HD.....Now granted some of D* will be as well but what is encouraging is that the nets will get more and more native unlike the VOOM channels which re-air a lot of old material that does not have native source to begin with.

[DCSholtis]

E* counting HD RSNs and HD PPV is bogus, but they are on CONUS transponders.

OK then I take back what I said. Thanks.

[Sirshagg]

Agree. This entire HD channel number battle is bogus. Show of hands...how many people will watch/record more than 12-14 HD channels regularly?

It's ridiculous, really. And Directv is as bad as cable is as bad as Dish. Why don't they just drop trou and have Brian Roberts, Chase Carey and Charlie Ergen get our the ruler. It's just as valid, though a disgusting analogy, no?

Now there's a made for PPV event. :eek2: :lol: :nono2:

[ballen2221]

Does E* have NFLST?

'Nuff said....I'll stick with DTV!

[Earl Bonovich]

Ahow many people will watch/record more than 12-14 HD channels regularly?



Series Linked Shows:

-) TLC - American Chopper
-) NGC; Human Weapon
-) F/X; Nip/Tuck
-) SciFi: Stargate Atlants; BSG; Flash Gordon
-) USA: Monk
-) Hist: Modern Marvels
-) Discovery: Dirty Jobs; Build it Bigger
-) Food: Good Eats; Ace of Cakes; Unwrapped; Feasting on Asphalt
-) Nick: Avatar, Skyland (depending if they are going to be in HD)

Regular Live Viewing:
-) Big Ten Network
-) ESPN-HD
-) ESPN2-HD
-) NFL Network

Then mix in the Network Channels:
-) ABC
-) CBS
-) NBC
-) FOX
-) CW (which I do have)



Yes, I do think a lot of people will be recording and watching on a lot of HD channels...
Hence the importance on who is going to carry what channels.... no on who is going to carry the "most" channels

[RxMan1]

Human Weapon in HD? Yeah! Muwahaha. I can't wait.

[Doug Brott]

I'll record as much as possible in HD .. The more in MPEG-4 the better to save on that disk space.

[Tugboat]

Series Linked Shows:

-) TLC - American Chopper
-) NGC; Human Weapon
-) F/X; Nip/Tuck
-) SciFi: Stargate Atlants; BSG; Flash Gordon
-) USA: Monk
-) Hist: Modern Marvels
-) Discovery: Dirty Jobs; Build it Bigger
-) Food: Good Eats; Ace of Cakes; Unwrapped; Feasting on Asphalt
-) Nick: Avatar, Skyland (depending if they are going to be in HD)

Regular Live Viewing:
-) Big Ten Network
-) ESPN-HD
-) ESPN2-HD
-) NFL Network

Then mix in the Network Channels:
-) ABC
-) CBS
-) NBC
-) FOX
-) CW (which I do have)



Yes, I do think a lot of people will be recording and watching on a lot of HD channels...
Hence the importance on who is going to carry what channels.... no on who is going to carry the "most" channels

What, no Shield, Rescue Me, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Californication and Weeds?

[heisman]

Hence the importance on who is going to carry what channels.... no on who is going to carry the "most" channels

Adding to this, how about the importance of quality? All I hear on these boards is about quantity. Hasn't anyone noticed how poor the HD picture quality is on D*'s current lineup? Hopefully the new sat will address this problem first and foremost.

[Earl Bonovich]

Adding to this, how about the importance of quality? All I hear on these boards is about quantity. Hasn't anyone noticed how poor the HD picture quality is on D*'s current lineup? Hopefully the new sat will address this problem first and foremost.

We have many discussions about quality vs quantity...
There has to be a balance between the two...

[Jeremy W]

Hasn't anyone noticed how poor the HD picture quality is on D*'s current lineup?
No, I don't think it's ever been brought up before.

[ncxcstud]

My mom and step-dad have Dish HD..... channels that play 2 or 3 movies continuously for 4 days doesn't resonate as 'stellar HD programs' for me...thus, they don't count as 'true' HD channels in my book...

I'm guessing KungFu HD and Monsters HD (which i'm criticizing) are "Voom" channels?

[Jeremy W]

I'm guessing KungFu HD and Monsters HD (which i'm criticizing) are "Voom" channels?
Correct.

[DrZaiusATL]

Adding to this, how about the importance of quality? All I hear on these boards is about quantity. Hasn't anyone noticed how poor the HD picture quality is on D*'s current lineup? Hopefully the new sat will address this problem first and foremost.

You have to know that DirecTV is addressing this issue as well. They have spent a large amount of money on fiber from these new sources so that full bandwidth HDV reaches DirecTV BEFORE compression. Which makes huge differences in quality. Yes the new satellite will obviously help but how they obtain sources is actually a bigger concern/improvement that they can make to any of their services HD or SD.

[heisman]

No, I don't think it's ever been brought up before.

Good thing I brought it up then. :p

[420greg]

I want Kung-Fu HD.

I hope we get that some day.

[richiephx]

My mom and step-dad have Dish HD..... channels that play 2 or 3 movies continuously for 4 days doesn't resonate as 'stellar HD programs' for me...thus, they don't count as 'true' HD channels in my book...

I'm guessing KungFu HD and Monsters HD (which i'm criticizing) are "Voom" channels?

I watch VOOM on a regular basis. Since they were transferred to MPEG4, the picture quality has improved too. VOOM is starting to add new programming on a regular basis. Channels like Monsters, Filmfest, WorldSport, WorldCinema and Family are great channels. VOOM's content is all HD too. I agree, there are repeats but, there are repeats on most every HD channel like HBO, SHO, MAX, and STARZ for example. I think it's great that D* is adding a bunch of channels, but, you will soon find that there is limited HD content on many of the channels you will be getting (most of which is on E* now). Most of the content is upconverted SD and there are many repeats. My guess is, the people who are most critical of VOOM probably never had or actually watched any of the VOOM channels. Most of the negative comments are just echoes of what other people say. I would hope that people would form their own opinion based upon their own experience and not just repeat what others say. Use your intelligence and not your ignorance before you speak. While it's exciting to have a bunch of HD channels to watch and scan through (we all do it) I hope that people won't be disappointed to find that all the HD channels aren't really as good as what they were hyped up to be. The provider who has the most HD channels that I want to watch, with the best picture quality at the best price will get my business, period.

[Jhon69]

Adding to this, how about the importance of quality? All I hear on these boards is about quantity. Hasn't anyone noticed how poor the HD picture quality is on D*'s current lineup? Hopefully the new sat will address this problem first and foremost.


There has been reports that the MPEG4 HD locals look as good as OTA.;)

[morgantown]

There has been reports that the MPEG4 HD locals look as good as OTA.;)

Here in the Pittsburgh DMA it is extremely difficult to tell the difference. Rarely you can tell minor difference -- most of the time you can't distinguish between the two. I've been more than satisfied with the local MEPG4 HD.

If this is any indication of the CONUS HD we should all be pretty happy. The quality should actually be better for the national channels given the feeds should be a direct link versus all of the variables capturing locals from around the country...

[paulman182]

I watch VOOM on a regular basis. Since they were transferred to MPEG4, the picture quality has improved too. VOOM is starting to add new programming on a regular basis. Channels like Monsters, Filmfest, WorldSport, WorldCinema and Family are great channels. VOOM's content is all HD too. I agree, there are repeats but, there are repeats on most every HD channel like HBO, SHO, MAX, and STARZ for example.

I am one of the few D* customers on this forum who openly states he would like Voom on D*. There are many movies on Voom that do not appear in HD on any other channel.

I am considering someday subscribing to both D* and E* just for this reason, if it could be done economically.

In most ways I prefer D* (including Sunday Ticket) but D* doesn't seem to want to even consider adding Voom, which seems strange if they really want to be the "HD Leader."

[Newshawk]

So, do ever E* sub have access to those RSN's? If not then this number of "70" HD channels is misrepresented! D*'s RSN will be National not SpotBeam!

Actually, E*'s HD RSNs are on national beams, but they are not 24/7 (unless things have changed in the last few weeks.) They only carry games produced in HD. Didn't we get excoriated for counting the "part-time" NFL ST channels? Pot, kettle, black, I say.

[CoachGibbs]

Human Weapon in HD? Yeah! Muwahaha. I can't wait.

I checked this out the other day before HistoryHD went down in the fire and it was not shown in HD, but rather windowboxed(not sure that's the right term). This is typical of A&EHD and HistoryHD, just to warn those who haven't seen the channels yet.

Also other shows like Mythbusters on DiscoveryHD are either not in HD or so soft it's nearly impossible to tell.

[The_Geyser]

I want Kung-Fu HD.

I hope we get that some day.

I saw Kung-Fu Box Sets at Sam's Club the other day. It's on my Santa List!

[joed32]

Good! Competition is good... more content offered by competitors of directv puts pressure on directv to add more value to their service.

The man with the right answer! If it wasn't for this "battle" between E* and D* we have very little HD. They are trying to match each other and more channels are switching to HD because they know they can get carriage. Every HD channel that either one of them adds is good for us all. In a short time they will both have every HD channel available. Then you can go back to the PQ arguments.

[Jeremy W]

D* doesn't seem to want to even consider adding Voom, which seems strange if they really want to be the "HD Leader."
They want to be the HD leader in real programming, not 3 hour loops of HD for the sake of HD.

[James Long]

The author of the article ("Swanni") is the one that is counting 70 channels.
E* is NOT making the claim that Swanni has attributed to E*.
Again ...
E* is NOT making the claim that Phillip Swann has attributed to E*.

E*'s claim is 39 HD channels, not 70. So please direct your annoyance about counting the other 31 channels (RSNs and PPVs) at Swanni - not at E*.

Thank you for your time.

[marksman]

Shouldn't he be called SwannE*?

[James Long]

I don't follow his writing too closely, but I generally see Swann being more biased toward D* than E*. In this case, his misquote harms E* ... so it seems to follow the pattern.

[Badger]

The author of the article ("Swanni") is the one that is counting 70 channels.
E* is NOT making the claim that Swanni has attributed to E*.
Again ...
E* is NOT making the claim that Phillip Swann has attributed to E*.

E*'s claim is 39 HD channels, not 70. So please direct your annoyance about counting the other 31 channels (RSNs and PPVs) at Swanni - not at E*.

Thank you for your time.

In that case I'm sure E* will publicly correct this. "YA SURE" when pigs can fly. LOL :D

[James Long]

E*'s last press release that gave a number came out on September 10th ...
http://dish.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=263006

"The leader in high-definition, DISH Network offers 39 national HD channels including NFL Network HD and ESPN HD, as well as HD local channels in more than 50 percent of U.S. households."

As long as E* keeps telling the truth they don't have to go after every media source that misquotes them.

[James Long]

OK ... E* put out a new press release today (offering discounts on Sharp brand TVs) and they included the following text:The leader in high definition, DISH Network offers 70 HD channels including 39 national HD channels -- the most in the industry -- as well as HD local channels available in more than 50 percent of U.S. households, 18 Regional Sports Networks in HD and nine HD Pay-Per-View channels.Source (http://dish.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=265024)

At least they are qualifying the 70 channels as 39 national. :(

[Stuart Sweet]

Shouldn't he be called SwannE*?

Why should we ask the Dish folks to take him? Maybe they don't want him? :lol:

[DCSholtis]

Why should we ask the Dish folks to take him? Maybe they don't want him? :lol:

:D :lol:

[coota]

Since this is a Directv board, I personally don't care how many channels Dish tv has.

[bwaldron]

Yes, counting the RSNs is pretty bogus, because most (all) of the ones carried by E* are "games only" (unlike NESN, YES, etc.)

But this "us vs. them" attitude I see on almost all A/V forums sorta mystifies me. I subscribe to DirecTV because they offer the programming I desire, and I've been (varying degrees of) happy with them for the past decade. I don't, however, feel like I am rooting for "my team" against the E* folks. Whomever supplies the programming I want, in good quality, at the best price, with solid hardware (DVRs), will get my business. Don't feel the need to justify my choice to others, nor to denigrate their choices.

It's good to have choices. I'm glad there's competition out there.

[Sirshagg]

Yes, counting the RSNs is pretty bogus, because most (all) of the ones carried by E* are "games only" (unlike NESN, YES, etc.)

But this "us vs. them" attitude I see on almost all A/V forums sorta mystifies me. I subscribe to DirecTV because they offer the programming I desire, and I've been (varying degrees of) happy with them for the past decade. I don't, however, feel like I am rooting for "my team" against the E* folks. Whomever supplies the programming I want, in good quality, at the best price, with solid hardware (DVRs), will get my business. Don't feel the need to justify my choice to others, nor to denigrate their choices.

It's good to have choices. I'm glad there's competition out there.

When you are forced into a 2 year contract and pay $300/ea to lease equipment you tend to get a little invested in the carrier you have selected.

[bwaldron]

When you are forced into a 2 year contract and pay $300/ea to lease equipment you tend to get a little invested in the carrier you have selected.

Fair enough. I don't like the commitment, but it's not something that leads me to get emotionally invested...and frankly, it's not that important to me. If a much better provider for my needs/wants were to come along, I'd either wait or take a bit of a financial hit to move.

[James Long]

I expect D* to inflate as well ... the main reason I posted the "new" number was because it was the first time I've seen E* claim 70 channels ... not someone else doing a count, but E* giving that (qualified) number.

Yeah, it disappoints me. I wish NEITHER service padded such things. But the padding is one reason why I do my own counts.

[tiggerbo]

voom Has Not Been Upgraded In A Long Time. If You Have Ever Seen Voom It Is Not That Great

[Reggie3]

IMHO: HD PPV should not be counted as a channel. On either network.



Agree

[James Long]

By my count 39 does not include E*'s PPV. It does include the four premium movie channels. To get to 70 not only does one have to count PPV and RSNs, but one also has to count the Big10 HD Alt channels. That is embarrassing!

D*'s 11 would include their PPV and two premium movie channels. Obviously that is going to change. I'm looking forward to being able to get counting!

[kintaro]

They want to be the HD leader in real programming, not 3 hour loops of HD for the sake of HD.

3 hour loops or not, I see a lot of movies I would love to watch in the MonstersHD schedule. I would to have this channel on D*.

[projectorguru]

what does it matter anyway how you count D* and E*? its up to the customer, right now D* can't count anyway, and when they can I'm sure D* will count differently than I would. This site has gone from good info to lets b*tch about everything, and blame everyone for HD, or lack thereof, in 5 years it won't be who has more HD, it will be whats the price difference, when D* gets these channels they claim(if they get them), E* will get them too, and then no one will care how many each has cuz they will have about the same. I saw another dude on this thread say don't count VOOM cuz they aren't offered anywhere elese, you mean like NFL package? don't count them either, geez I've never seen so many whiney babies in my life, C_YA

[JFHughes08088]

all I have to say is "Good for them"

Numbers can be interpreted how ever you want. Its up to each Subscriber to decide if who has the most channels for them. if Provider A has 1000 HD Crap Channels, and Proveider B has 1 HD Channel the Sub realy wants. then in reality B has more for that sub

Figures lie and liars figure...............

[JFHughes08088]

D*, E*, cable, FIOS...they are all just content providers. While different ones use different means to deliver the content to us, in the end, it's all about the programming.

Keep in mind HD is still in its infancy, compared to what it will be 5 years from now.

In the end, most, if not all content will be HD, then we are all back to the same place we were several years ago. That is, making decisions based on customer service, content, price, etc.

NFL ST is what keeps me loyal to D*. Yeah, yeah, I know. SF isn't free to everyone, prices go up blah, blah. I vote with my wallet every year by deciding to either keep my service or go somewhere else. When the day comes that everyone can offer me every NFL regular season game or when D* prices the package beyond what I believe is reasonable, then I will have a dilemma.

For now, they are spending more to increse their ability to provide HD, which they desreve credit for. (which we also all seem to care about today). A few years from now, it will be something else.

I just hope once the HD craze quiets down, they will begin improving the HR-20 to offer me network connectivity allowing me to off-load HD recordings to a networked hard drive for future viewing. (note - not a thread hijack attempt), let's not all start posting DVR improvement idea's. We have plenty of thrreads for that.

[dcrabtree]

...I was impressed with the HD channels that Dish currently offers, as well, they offer the Hagerstown local channel, which is more local to me than the Washington D.C. channels. It's definitely thought for switching, but I am not making any moves at this time.:D

[run2lax]

Take away VOOM and the fact their RSNs are not on a CONUS beam but rather on a spot beam. I'll stick with D*.

Doesn't Voom have a channel that shows european soccer in HD? I would not poo poo that. I'll stick with DTV because while they are behind right now, they have always caught up and zoomed past their competitors. I used to keep it for the ST, but it just got too pricey for me to justify writing that check. However, DTV has some Spanish channels I can't do without by choice that E* lacks, though E* does have a TV Azteca national feed I wish I got.

[James Long]

The question on Voom would be how much the price would be reduced if those 15 channels were "sold separately". I can't imagine a price drop of more than $5 ... likely less with all the other channels coming online.