Install plus OTA question

[MEJHarrison]

I'm having my dish upgraded on Monday and now that I'll be able to record OTA HD, I'm looking into my OTA options. I currently have an antenna (Silver Sensor) indoors that for whatever reason, doesn't seem to work very well. Perhaps it's because I have several houses between my antenna location an the towers 6 miles away? Anyway, that's not really important. I discovered last night that if I simply move the antenna outside (about 5' south :lol: ), that I pick up everything and get super reception on every channel. Probably because I can stand in the back yard and see the towers on the hill.

So I want to put my antenna outside by my dish. Originally I thought I'd ask the installer to run a third line for the antenna, but someone else told me to get diplexers instead. Assuming that this is the right way to go, is this something that the installer should be able to supply? Or should I buy my own diplexers? And if I buy my own, are all diplexers created equal or should I spend the extra money for a particular brand?

[Canis Lupus]

Hi MEJ,
In order for you to properly receive the new MPEG4 channels, you cannot diplex a cable into an OTA cable. You need to run a separate cable solely for OTA, so you want to make sure you have a total of 3 lines running from the Dish and Antenna into your receiver.

[Stuart Sweet]

In the future you will be able to get a Single Wire Multiswitch which supports diplexing.

[Philby]

Also I find it hard to believe that you can't get the channels with the antenna in your house. I'm 15-20 miles from the local towers, and I pick up everything great with rabbit ears I got from Target for $12...

My installer even told me where he lives (about 5 miles from towers) people only need the little antenna that comes with the HR20-100 (for RF remote usage which apparently is not good on the -100s), so if i were you I'd play around with it a little more inside (unless you really want it outside. I have mine behind my TV so its not visible)

[ChicagoTC]

There is also the BBC right after the multiswitch technique that people are experimenting with. Right now it works, but no one knows for sure if it will continue to work once they light up D10

I'd post the URL but I need 3 more posts.

Basically multiswitch-BBC-diplex-diplex-H20/HR20

[MEJHarrison]

Also I find it hard to believe that you can't get the channels with the antenna in your house. I'm 15-20 miles from the local towers, and I pick up everything great with rabbit ears I got from Target for $12...

My installer even told me where he lives (about 5 miles from towers) people only need the little antenna that comes with the HR20-100 (for RF remote usage which apparently is not good on the -100s), so if i were you I'd play around with it a little more inside (unless you really want it outside. I have mine behind my TV so its not visible)

I've been through 3 different antennas. I tried a $10 antenna with bad results. Tried the $40 powered antenna with slightly better results. Then I tried one of those Silver Sensor antennas because I heard good things with slightly better results.

It's a very clear line of sight to the towers from outside the house. But I can't seem to make it work well inside my house. I get a few channels very well. And a few I can only get after a LOT of fooling around to get the antenna positioned just perfectly. And even then the signal cuts out a lot. And the rest are somewhere in between.

The antenna is on the first floor in the SE corner of my house behind the TV. And the towers are almost exactly due east. Maybe a hair NE.

I do know I put the antenna on the ground outside last night on our patio and every single channel came in with about 8-9 bars (out of 10).

I'm totally open to ideas at this point. I can't explain why I have so many problems inside, yet I move it 5' south (outside) and everything works perfectly. I would love to just leave it inside and not have to mess with a more complicated setup, but I don't know what else to do at this point. :confused:

[BK EH]

There is also the BBC right after the multiswitch technique that people are experimenting with. Right now it works, but no one knows for sure if it will continue to work once they light up D10

I'd post the URL but I need 3 more posts.

Basically multiswitch-BBC-diplex-diplex-H20/HR20
What are you suggesting here? That multiswitch-BBC-diplex-diplex-H20/HR20 will enable an OTA signal to be diplexed in an MPEG-4 run, like it can w/ MPEG-2?

[jwd45244]

What are you suggesting here? That multiswitch-BBC-diplex-diplex-H20/HR20 will enable an OTA signal to be diplexed in an MPEG-4 run, like it can w/ MPEG-2?

Do a search and you see whole threads discussing exactly that. There are some of that that have tried it and so far it is fine and I got a 99 on TP 11 when it lit up two days ago. So, yes some of us are suggesting that. (YMMV)

[ChicagoTC]

What are you suggesting here? That multiswitch-BBC-diplex-diplex-H20/HR20 will enable an OTA signal to be diplexed in an MPEG-4 run, like it can w/ MPEG-2?

Correct, I don't have my 5LNB dish yet so I can't try, but others had success to this point. The real answer will come whenever D10 comes online.

I already have 4 lines into a 5x8 multiswitch with an OTA input. When the installer swaps the multiswitch i'll just put the BBC on an output and diplex in OTA. Very quick to test it out.

Keep in mind the BBCs aren't weatherproof. My existing multiswitch and OTA diplex is outside but in a nema box.

[bakers12]

MEJ, is there aluminum siding on the walls? Just wondering, because that can really hurt reception. You can try aiming the antenna through a window (no metal screens!) to see if there is something inside the wall stopping you.

[MEJHarrison]

We have vinyl siding. It's just a regular house from the early 90's. Nothing unusual that I'm aware of. There is a window on the south side (towers are to the east). Nothing on the east side. I can put the antenna in the window and will try that tonight. But there's no space to "aim" it really. In fact, the only way it will fit would be to turn it on it's side... and hide it behind the aluminum blinds. That surely couldn't be it could it? The aluminum blinds in the window that it's sitting 6" from?

Anyway, I'll try the window positioning when I get home tonight. I've also had two different people tell me to try an attenuator. I assume that's something that could be picked up a Radio Shack or Fry's? I searched, but couldn't find anything.

[bakers12]

If I understand correctly, the only window available faces the wrong direction, so I wouldn't bother trying it. If there are metal blinds 6" from the antenna, it could throw off the reception. See what happens if you move the antenna a couple feet away.

I don't know a lot about construction. What I was thinking is that something - maybe pipes or foil-backed insulation if there is such a thing - was in the walls causing trouble.

You'd more likely need an attenuator outside because the signal inside is already cut down by the wall. Any wall will attenuate the signal.

[HD AV]

We have vinyl siding. It's just a regular house from the early 90's. Nothing unusual that I'm aware of. There is a window on the south side (towers are to the east). Nothing on the east side. I can put the antenna in the window and will try that tonight. But there's no space to "aim" it really. In fact, the only way it will fit would be to turn it on it's side... and hide it behind the aluminum blinds. That surely couldn't be it could it? The aluminum blinds in the window that it's sitting 6" from?

Anyway, I'll try the window positioning when I get home tonight. I've also had two different people tell me to try an attenuator. I assume that's something that could be picked up a Radio Shack or Fry's? I searched, but couldn't find anything.

It sounds as if you are experiencing multipath reflections inside the house that is causing the error rate to give you problems, not signal strength. I have experienced a similar problem on my set upstairs in the bedroom. The set I have shows error rate and I can tell that is the problem 'cause the signal strength is high enough. It does fluctuate quite a bit and when it does, the error rate goes sky high. I solved the problem by adding a length of coax and placing the antenna in the bedroom window. Error rate went to 0 and signal stopped jumping around. Location, location, location. Digital signals with their "packets" are extremely sensitive to multipath (reflections).

[MEJHarrison]

The set I have shows error rate and I can tell that is the problem 'cause the signal strength is high enough.

My set (Samsung HL-S5687 DLP) doesn't show the error rate, but it does show the signal strength from 0-10 bars. The two biggest offenders (ABC & CBS) routinely show 0-3 bars. Of course that may or may not be a true signal strength meter. I suppose it could be rating the signal it's getting which would be thrown off by errors.

I'll give the window position a shot tonight. It will have to stand on end and be behind the blind and curtains. Without those shut, the sub shines onto the screen. On the plus side, since it's the south window, the antenna will actually be pointing east. :lol:

Also, should I expect to see a difference once I hook the antenna up to the HR20 I'll be getting Monday?

[jeffman]

MEJ...
I've used a bunch of OTA antennas (I work in the custom home theater industry). If you can mount an OTA outdoors save yourself the hassel and get the Winegard SS-2000. It's a lil pricey at $100 but it's the best I've seen so far. Perfect if the majority of your OTA's come from the same source. It'll pick up signal up to 40+ miles w/amplification (amplifier included, SS-1000 if you dont need amplification <20mi). Run a seprate coax, as others have mentioned.
Also go to www.antennaweb.org to see where your OTA's are comming from so you can aim it properly. And you'll be set.
Finally, if you've got all the materials I have had many a customer give the installer $50 to mount it.

[MEJHarrison]

If you can mount an OTA outdoors save yourself the hassel and get the Winegard SS-2000. It's a lil pricey at $100 but it's the best I've seen so far.

Thanks for the advice, but the problem isn't that I need an outdoor antenna. The problem is that an indoor antenna should be way more than adequate from what I understand and I can't get it to work right.

Run a seprate coax, as others have mentioned.

When the installer is out on Monday, I'm going to see if he'll do that for me if I can't get it going before that. Or at the very least give me a cable long enough that I can setup myself. I just don't have the tools to make a cable the right size. Otherwise I could do it myself if need be.

Also go to www.antennaweb.org to see where your OTA's are comming from so you can aim it properly. And you'll be set.

I've done this already. It's Beaverton, OR 97006. That's how I know the towers are to the east (plus the fact I can see them from my yard :lol: )

[jeffman]

The problem is that an indoor antenna should be way more than adequate from what I understand and I can't get it to work right.



Not necessarily. It's been my practical experience that every install is different. Even if the equiptment you have should work. The OTA is very directional and can be scattered easily. Your experience with the silver sensor has proven that. Works on the patio great, but not so well indoors. Not to mention with the Silver Sensor, moving it a 1/2in can kill or boost your signal. I often turned this antenna on its back and got great reception. You can also look at the SS-3000, it picks up scattered OTA signals indoors and I have had limited success with it.

[MEJHarrison]

Not necessarily. It's been my practical experience that every install is different. Even if the equiptment you have should work. The OTA is very directional and can be scattered easily. Your experience with the silver sensor has proven that. Works on the patio great, but not so well indoors. Not to mention with the Silver Sensor, moving it a 1/2in can kill or boost your signal. I often turned this antenna on its back and got great reception. You can also look at the SS-3000, it picks up scattered OTA signals indoors and I have had limited success with it.

Well, I'll play with it tonight and should soon know the situation. Thanks for the help.

[BK EH]

Do a search and you see whole threads discussing exactly that. There are some of that that have tried it and so far it is fine and I got a 99 on TP 11 when it lit up two days ago. So, yes some of us are suggesting that. (YMMV)

Great news! We have an ss-2000 and I wanted to get the PBS and another HD tied in to our HR10-250 once we go 5LNB and HR20 soon. This is great news!