Tweaking Slimline

[Hansen]

I want to tweak my slimline 5 lnb to improve the 103 (b) signals. Right now they are low to mid 80's and I think I can do better so I can avoid rain fade later. My 101 and 119 signals are pretty good -- in the 90 to 100 ranges. My 99(b) is okay (82 and 85) but not great. My 103(a) is very good 99, 96 and 98. Here's my question: can the 103(a) be that good with the 103(b) being so much lower? Are they both ka signals with the narrow peak? Most importantly, am I correct that given the high 103(a) signals, it should be just a very minor tweak to get the 103(b) signals up (along with keeping the other signals the same or higher)? Given these numbers, any suggestions on whether to start with the adjustment for tilt, elevation or azimuth (it doesn't seem like it should be an azimuth setting adjustment but I have no clue)?

Thanks

[litzdog911]

I would wait until things stablize and they actually starting broadcasting using the 103(b) transponders. If you're getting 99's on 103(a), I think you're already optimized for 103(b).

[marcmec]

Perhaps Litzdog can confirm this, but i believe that 99b and 103a are spotbeams, so signal strength will vary depending on your location. In Oregon I,ve got miscellaneous signal strengths on 99b with tp2 and tp4 @ 100 and others @ 40 or below. 103a has 93 on tp3 and thats it. 103b has good strength on all tp's ranging from 97 to 87.

[SteveEJ]

I want to tweak my slimline 5 lnb to improve the 103 (b) signals. Right now they are low to mid 80's and I think I can do better so I can avoid rain fade later. My 101 and 119 signals are pretty good -- in the 90 to 100 ranges. My 99(b) is okay (82 and 85) but not great. My 103(a) is very good 99, 96 and 98. Here's my question: can the 103(a) be that good with the 103(b) being so much lower? Are they both ka signals with the narrow peak? Most importantly, am I correct that given the high 103(a) signals, it should be just a very minor tweak to get the 103(b) signals up (along with keeping the other signals the same or higher)? Given these numbers, any suggestions on whether to start with the adjustment for tilt, elevation or azimuth (it doesn't seem like it should be an azimuth setting adjustment but I have no clue)?

Thanks

I did this for mine but my 103(b) signal strength was in the 40-50 range. I took the simple approach. Here's what I did:

1 - Verified the pole was level with both a bullet level and the bubble level in the top of the pole. It was OK.

2 - I marked the position of the dish mount on the pole.

3 - I verified the elevation and tilt settings from the receiver and checked the dish to make sure it was set correctly. It was.

4 - I started with the azmiuth. I have a pair of hand held radios and had my wife transmit the levels to me. I had the DVR set to show the levels on both receivers. I turned the azimuth fine tune nut a half turn clockwise the levels went up. I continued a half turn at a time, pausing about 30 seconds per turn to allow the system to settle down. After 6-7 half turns the signal started down so I reversed the turn slowly until I reached the highest level. I came inside and checked all of the satellites and I got lucky as all of the levels went up.

I never touched the elevation as I felt I didn't need to.

I did not adjust the tilt as this should not be necessary if set correctly in the first place.

If you do adjust the alignment yourself be sure to mark where you started from and go slow, one axis at a time.

I hope this helps.. If any doubt call a qualified technician. I have done this and installed 10+ systems so I was fairly familiar with what to do.

[K4SMX]

I want to tweak my slimline 5 lnb to improve the 103 (b) signals. Right now they are low to mid 80's and I think I can do better so I can avoid rain fade later. My 101 and 119 signals are pretty good -- in the 90 to 100 ranges. My 99(b) is okay (82 and 85) but not great. My 103(a) is very good 99, 96 and 98. Here's my question: can the 103(a) be that good with the 103(b) being so much lower? Are they both ka signals with the narrow peak? Most importantly, am I correct that given the high 103(a) signals, it should be just a very minor tweak to get the 103(b) signals up (along with keeping the other signals the same or higher)? Given these numbers, any suggestions on whether to start with the adjustment for tilt, elevation or azimuth (it doesn't seem like it should be an azimuth setting adjustment but I have no clue)?

Thanks
There appears to me to be nothing at all wrong with your alignment. The 103(a) and 103(b) satellites are, by my reckoning, about 2 miles apart way out there in space. (I could be wrong; please feel free to comment!) You can only go down on the 103(b) from here.

You do appear to possibly have other problems with the 103(b). What type of dish do you have, an AT9 (sidecar) or an AU9-S (Slimline)? If you have a Slimline, and it is accessible, can you report the brand of LNB you have mounted at the end of the arm? (WNC or Calamp)

[tpayne105]

I want to tweak my slimline 5 lnb to improve the 103 (b) signals. Right now they are low to mid 80's and I think I can do better so I can avoid rain fade later. My 101 and 119 signals are pretty good -- in the 90 to 100 ranges. My 99(b) is okay (82 and 85) but not great. My 103(a) is very good 99, 96 and 98. Here's my question: can the 103(a) be that good with the 103(b) being so much lower? Are they both ka signals with the narrow peak? Most importantly, am I correct that given the high 103(a) signals, it should be just a very minor tweak to get the 103(b) signals up (along with keeping the other signals the same or higher)? Given these numbers, any suggestions on whether to start with the adjustment for tilt, elevation or azimuth (it doesn't seem like it should be an azimuth setting adjustment but I have no clue)?

Thanks

Hanson...I live in DFW and get this:

103b 84 81 83 81 80 79 82 82
80 80 84 81 81 80 na na
86 na na na na 85 na na
na na na na na na na na

103a 98 0 88 0 95 na na
na na na na na na na na
0 na (the rest of the TPS)

I am going to leave mine as is.....

[Hansen]

There appears to me to be nothing at all wrong with your alignment. The 103(a) and 103(b) satellites are, by my reckoning, about 2 miles apart way out there in space. (I could be wrong; please feel free to comment!) You can only go down on the 103(b) from here.

You do appear to possibly have other problems with the 103(b). What type of dish do you have, an AT9 (sidecar) or an AU9-S (Slimline)? If you have a Slimline, and it is accessible, can you report the brand of LNB you have mounted at the end of the arm? (WNC or Calamp)

I have the Slimline. It says "Eagle Aspen" on the plate on the LNBs array.

[Chuck W]

Hanson...I live in DFW and get this:

103b 84 81 83 81 80 79 82 82
80 80 84 81 81 80 na na
86 na na na na 85 na na
na na na na na na na na

103a 98 0 88 0 95 na na
na na na na na na na na
0 na (the rest of the TPS)

I am going to leave mine as is.....


Those are just about what I get for my 103(b), as well(although a few TP's are only mid 70's). For now, I'll probably leave it alone and see how they hold up, however, I'm not all that optimistic, because I have had problems, in the past with my locals(on 103(a)), with a signal of 80) dropping, for a good 10 minutes, while the rest of the sats/channels stayed up. Knowing the 99 and 103 sats tend to drop quicker, in bad weather, I'm not optimistic about just leaving it alone. I know I can get better numbers, as other, in my state, have shown that, with their readings

I'm sure, one of these days, when the rain drops the signal out, I'll be out there, the next day, tweaking it, ;)

[texasbrit]

Hanson...I live in DFW and get this:

103b 84 81 83 81 80 79 82 82
80 80 84 81 81 80 na na
86 na na na na 85 na na
na na na na na na na na

103a 98 0 88 0 95 na na
na na na na na na na na
0 na (the rest of the TPS)

I am going to leave mine as is.....

Those are very similar to the readings I was getting, also in DFW. I have aligned 3-lnb dishes before but never the 5-lnb (I have an AT-9). So yesterday I connected my 9in TV to my H20 using a modulator and long coax, and went on the roof armed with an adjustable wrench and a half-inch nut driver. First I redid the fine tuning in both azimuth and elevation using a transponder on 103(b) instead of 101. Got a few points in signal strength that way, even my 101 signals improved marginally. Then I decided to redo the elevation setting completely, starting with coarse elevation, but using 103(b). Within seconds I had a major improvement in 103(b). Did the fine tuning in elevation as per the installation manual, then did the fine tuning in azimuth, both with 103(b) instead of 101. Result - amazing!
My 103(b) signals now range from 92 to 98. And all my other signals have improved. Lowest 101 signal other than the spotbeams is 96, I have nine transponders at 100. On 110 94 is my lowest, on 119 95 is my lowest and I have six at 100. On 103(a) my DFW locals transponder (transponder 1) is now at 100 also. Even on 99(b), where the signals are for other cities, I have two transponders in the 90s.
So realignment can really help.

[K4SMX]

Those are just about what I get for my 103(b), as well(although a few TP's are only mid 70's). For now, I'll probably leave it alone and see how they hold up, however, I'm not all that optimistic, because I have had problems, in the past with my locals(on 103(a)), with a signal of 80) dropping, for a good 10 minutes, while the rest of the sats/channels stayed up. Knowing the 99 and 103 sats tend to drop quicker, in bad weather, I'm not optimistic about just leaving it alone. I know I can get better numbers, as other, in my state, have shown that, with their readings

I'm sure, one of these days, when the rain drops the signal out, I'll be out there, the next day, tweaking it, ;)
Please see post #33 and my subsequent post #34 reply in this thread (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1134484&posted=1#post1134484). I think you're right to be concerned, because that is also my experience with rain fade and the Ka satellites...

Edit: Oh, I see I forgot to refresh, and texasbrit is on the case! You might want to still read #34.

[Hansen]

TexBrit is right!!! After reading the manual for the slimline, I decided to mess around with the adjustments for the slimline a bit this morning. I ran out of time to complete what I set out to do (sure do lose a lot of time doing it solo and having to go up and down ladder and in and out of house.) In any event, after tweaking the elevation just a bit with no monumental gains, I decided to try the azimuth adjustment. I decided to do one full turn clockwise of the fine tune screw, checked my 103(b) signals and WOW. Big improvements on the even transponders, which were in the low 80s, and now the even ones are in low 90s. Oddly, I didn't see any change on the odd transponders (still at 87 to 88 to 89) for 103(b). Also noticed a 2 to 3 point jump on my 101 and 119 signals (most are now 96 to 100). Even got a boost on 99(b) which are spot beams that do not apply to my area. Those are in mid 90's and were about 86 and 84 before adjustement. My 103(a) is now 100, 96 and 98. which is close to where it was before adjustment.

I didn't have time to back off a little or go a little further with the azimuth setting to see if it got any better as I fine-tune it down a bit but I'm likely to leave it for now given the excellent readings across the board. It is interesting that the 103(b) odd transponders went up about 6 to 10 points each while the evens did not change (they are still good numbers but I'm curious). Any ideas?

Thanks

[texasbrit]

TexBrit is right!!! After reading the manual for the slimline, I decided to mess around with the adjustments for the slimline a bit this morning. I ran out of time to complete what I set out to do (sure do lose a lot of time doing it solo and having to go up and down ladder and in and out of house.) In any event, after tweaking the elevation just a bit with no monumental gains, I decided to try the azimuth adjustment. I decided to do one full turn clockwise of the fine tune screw, checked my 103(b) signals and WOW. Big improvements on the even transponders, which were in the low 80s, and now the even ones are in low 90s. Oddly, I didn't see any change on the odd transponders (still at 87 to 88 to 89) for 103(b). Also noticed a 2 to 3 point jump on my 101 and 119 signals (most are now 96 to 100). Even got a boost on 99(b) which are spot beams that do not apply to my area. Those are in mid 90's and were about 86 and 84 before adjustement. My 103(a) is now 100, 96 and 98. which is close to where it was before adjustment.

I didn't have time to back off a little or go a little further with the azimuth setting to see if it got any better as I fine-tune it down a bit but I'm likely to leave it for now given the excellent readings across the board. It is interesting that the 103(b) odd transponders went up about 6 to 10 points each while the evens did not change (they are still good numbers but I'm curious). Any ideas?

Thanks


I have another post talking about the odd and even issue. When you have the dish aligned correctly there is no consistent difference between odd and even transponders on 103(b). But when the dish is mislaligned slightly, this affects one set of transponders more than the other one. Which set is stronger seems to depend on in which direction is the misalignment. I can only conclude that the dish/LNB behaves differently for right-hand and left-hand polarization, when you are not exactly at the peak of the beam.

[Hansen]

I have another post talking about the odd and even issue. When you have the dish aligned correctly there is no consistent difference between odd and even transponders on 103(b). But when the dish is mislaligned slightly, this affects one set of transponders more than the other one. Which set is stronger seems to depend on in which direction is the misalignment. I can only conclude that the dish/LNB behaves differently for right-hand and left-hand polarization, when you are not exactly at the peak of the beam.


Thanks. I was just reading some of your posts in another thread describing what you experienced. Great information in there. My guess is that my elevation may need a slight tweak downward to balance out the odd transponders with the even transponders on 103(b). I'm going to give that a try when I get home tonight to see if I can improve the odd transponders.

BTW, with 103(a) in the DFW area, do you get 3 readings...all on odd transponders an 0's on even transponders?

Thanks

[texasbrit]

Thanks. I was just reading some of your posts in another thread describing what you experienced. Great information in there. My guess is that my elevation may need a slight tweak downward to balance out the odd transponders with the even transponders on 103(b). I'm going to give that a try when I get home tonight to see if I can improve the odd transponders.

BTW, with 103(a) in the DFW area, do you get 3 readings...all on odd transponders an 0's on even transponders?

Thanks

Yes - on 103(a) I see 100,0,95,0,96,0 and then 0 on TP#17. I think TP1 is the one carrying the DFW locals.
And on 99, which is all spotbeams for other cities, I see 0,0,0,94,0,96

[K4SMX]

Thanks. I was just reading some of your posts in another thread describing what you experienced. Great information in there. My guess is that my elevation may need a slight tweak downward to balance out the odd transponders with the even transponders on 103(b). I'm going to give that a try when I get home tonight to see if I can improve the odd transponders.

BTW, with 103(a) in the DFW area, do you get 3 readings...all on odd transponders an 0's on even transponders?

Thanks
And I think that "other thread" to which you are referring is here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=99181), with this particular discussion beginning on p.2., for late arrivals.

[rdiedrich]

I did this for mine but my 103(b) signal strength was in the 40-50 range. I took the simple approach. Here's what I did:

1 - Verified the pole was level with both a bullet level and the bubble level in the top of the pole. It was OK.

2 - I marked the position of the dish mount on the pole.

3 - I verified the elevation and tilt settings from the receiver and checked the dish to make sure it was set correctly. It was.

4 - I started with the azmiuth. I have a pair of hand held radios and had my wife transmit the levels to me. I had the DVR set to show the levels on both receivers. I turned the azimuth fine tune nut a half turn clockwise the levels went up. I continued a half turn at a time, pausing about 30 seconds per turn to allow the system to settle down. After 6-7 half turns the signal started down so I reversed the turn slowly until I reached the highest level. I came inside and checked all of the satellites and I got lucky as all of the levels went up.

I never touched the elevation as I felt I didn't need to.

I did not adjust the tilt as this should not be necessary if set correctly in the first place.

If you do adjust the alignment yourself be sure to mark where you started from and go slow, one axis at a time.

I hope this helps.. If any doubt call a qualified technician. I have done this and installed 10+ systems so I was fairly familiar with what to do.

That is a very reasonable approach for a do it yourselfer. Basically this is what us techs do at the dish with our meters to obtain best level signal. If you have ever seen the KA/KU install video at "Solid Signal" this is what they call dithering the dish. Also you are correct that you should not need to adjust elevation if the signals on the 101 and 119 sats are already in the 90's.

Randy