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1080p 24fps HD VOD ever?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by jediphish, Jul 25, 2008.

  1. Jul 25, 2008 #41 of 101
    bruinfever

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    IMHO from the moment I saw this company as CES I didnt think they would get off the ground. Not a big enough market for this to work. If there was, than VOOM Satellite would still be around (not the channels).
     
  2. Jul 25, 2008 #42 of 101
    cartrivision

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    I don't know of a reference list but those kind of details about individual models are often discussed over at avsforum.

    I think you are right about the scarcity of TVs that can display 24p video. There are probably more TVs that can properly do reverse pulldown of 24fps source encoded in 1080i/60 video than can display 1080p/24 video. Most of the new 120Hz TVs can probably do both, but in either case (with 60Hz or 120Hz sets), the only advantage that 1080p/24 has over 1080i/60 is that it uses less total data to deliver the exact same picture information (since 1080i/60 has data for 30fps vs 24fps for 1080p/24), although after MPEG4 compression that difference in data size may go away.
     
  3. Jul 25, 2008 #43 of 101
    Artwood

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    A Pioneer Kuro elite plasma accepts and refreshes 1080p/24 at the perfect multiple of 72.

    If it received 1080p/24 via satellite it would look great.

    What part of not having to De-Interlace is a good thing do some people not understand?
     
  4. Jul 26, 2008 #44 of 101
    cygnusloop

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    Well, here's thread over at AVS that discusses HDTV's capable of reproducing 24Hz refresh at proper multiples. It's not about which HDTV's are capable of properly deinterlacing telecined material back to 24 Hz.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=997138

    Personally, I trust the accuracy of his list, having done a great deal of my own research. But all the usual internet disclaimers apply.
     
  5. Jul 26, 2008 #45 of 101
    DarinC

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    Yes, I'm aware of that list. That's part of my point... there are a LOT of TVs that didn't make the cut. It's surprising how many manufacturers go to the bother of introducing 120hz sets, then completely ignore one of the biggest reasons to go to 120hz... it's en even multiple of 30, 60 and 24hz. You would think doing a 5:5 frame repeat would be simpler than 3:2, yet so many still just do the same thing they always did when they only had 60hz, then multiply that (juddered) result by 2. It seems they are more interested in being able to claim 3D compatibility than proper display of film sources, when the latter should be so easy to implement.

    I don't follow your logic there. Why would they go to the trouble of licensing and implementing the much more complex technology of inverse pulldown when they don't even have the ability to properly display the result? I would expect it to be the other way around: there's a subset of TVs that can show proper cadence when fed a 24hz input, then out of those there'd be a subset that can also properly detect and extract 24fps from a 60hz input.
     
  6. Jul 26, 2008 #46 of 101
    gfrang

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    My sony 40 v 3000 has 60hz refresh rate it does 24p at 48hz the bit rate is lower at 24p than 60p from BD disks.
     
  7. Jul 26, 2008 #47 of 101
    jediphish

    jediphish Godfather

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    People aren't buying Blu-Ray very fast it seems...

    http://www.widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=16131

    This doesn't mean necessarily that people wouldn't enjoy 1080p 24fps content, but maybe that they feel what they have already might be "good enough." If my hypothesis is true, then why not throw small bones to those who would appreciate the advancement using the technology in place in their homes already (HD DVR).

    I can promise you that I would pay at least a dollar more to get 1080p 24fps via VOD, maybe even $2. Way cheaper than investing add'l $$$ in a separate player and a subscription to one of the home-delivery Blu-Ray services or renting from BB or purchasing.

    While I'm at it, I wonder if D* has considered a flat-rate VOD/PPV fee for all its offerings each month, to compete with Netflix and BBOnline for the consumer's add'l $$$.
     
  8. Jul 26, 2008 #48 of 101
    gfrang

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    It comes at a price its twice the bandwhit ,on BD disk it fits fine.Cable Satellite ota
    big problem.
     
  9. Jul 26, 2008 #49 of 101
    DarinC

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    1080p/24 talkes slightly less bandwidth than 1080i. I don't think anyone is suggesting they carry 1080p/60.
     
  10. Jul 26, 2008 #50 of 101
    cartrivision

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    It's no trouble at all. The chipset that is already in DirecTV's HD DVRs can do inverse pulldown and deliver true 1080p/24 video from a 1080i/60 satellite feed, so there is no reason to broadcast a pure 1080p/24 feed that only some TVs could display.... just use the capabilities of the chips in the DVR and let the user switch between 1080i/60 or 1080p/24 output.
     
  11. Jul 26, 2008 #51 of 101
    Artwood

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    I think in 2 or 3 years you'll see it offered on VOD--by then they can probably make a few bucks on it.
     
  12. Jul 26, 2008 #52 of 101
    gfrang

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    1080/24p is one of ASTC standards so you would think any digital tv that could pick it up and display it if they brodcast it ota.
    But Directv receivers as of now can't output that signal?
     
  13. Jul 26, 2008 #53 of 101
    Artwood

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    Wouldn't it be a great world if everything INTERLACED was banned forever?

    Wouldn't it be a great world if people didn't believe the fairy tale that inverse pulldown is always done perfectly--that de-interlacing is always done perfecty--Failing that wouldn't it be a great world if DirecTV sent nothing interlaced--then we wouldn't have to hear people here talk about how great interlacing is!

    Do I inhabit the same universe or is it just barely conceivable that there are advantages to progressive signals over interlaced ones?

    Remember before they decided on the HD standard that people waxed poetic about how much better progressive signals would be over interlaced ones?

    Were all those people blooming idiots?

    I guarantee you that the same people here who talk about how great 1080i/60 is will be the very same people who will proclaim how great 1080p/24 is the day that DirecTV offers it!

    People here who are brave enough to dream of 1080p/24 might just figure that since it takes LESS BANDWIDTH than 1080i/60--and since that is the one holy reason around here that justifies DirecTV doing anything picture quality wise--that maybe just maybe DirecTV would consider doing it and making money off of it!

    Please forgive people for having such dreams!

    I guess it's not enough to want an infintessimal increase in picture quality that might come from 1080p/24--and it's not even enough to hope that DirecTV could make money by doing so!--what's really important is that whatever DirecTV is doing now is holy, just and unquestionable!

    I think I've got it now--whatever is happening now is right and I promise to send DirecTV some money totally unconnected to my bill to show my appreciation!
     
  14. Jul 27, 2008 #54 of 101
    Tom Robertson

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    Do you know, are the added frames in 1080i60 marked for easy deletion to revert to 1080p24?

    Thanks for the info,
    Tom
     
  15. Jul 27, 2008 #55 of 101
    The Scotsman

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    I just checked the list on the link above and I was disappointed not to see my Sharp XV-Z20000 front projector listed. I updated the firmware almost a year ago to version 1.1.5. - I have a PS3 connected with 24 Hz enabled, and the 24 Hz does show on screen when I select Signal Info on the projector menu. I also have an HR20-700. Are there any XV-Z20000 owners who can confirm that this projector displays 24 Hz (or a multiple) without going via the 3:2 pulldown thing?

    I know this isn't the projector forum. Please forgive my straying off topic.

    Thanks
    Archie:)
     
  16. Jul 27, 2008 #56 of 101
    gfrang

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    http://www.nostradamus.org/All your ansewers can be found here
     
  17. Jul 27, 2008 #57 of 101
    cygnusloop

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    I don't believe that they are marked per se, Tom. A good inverse telecine processor, will recognize the cadence, and reorganize the 60Hz interlaced fields back into 24Hz frames.

    However, with a lot of broadcast/cable networks, this process is doomed. A soon as a network overlays a 30fps bug/logo or promo, even worse a crawl, the detection can get flummoxed. This can cause some really strange effects from even a very good processor.

    As such, I never use my Sony's "CineMotion" feature (it's pulldown processor) on broadcast television. It's performance on a well encoded 480/60i DVD is, however, another matter.
     
  18. Jul 27, 2008 #58 of 101
    gfrang

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    The thing whit 24p it was originally designed to work whit film source.I leave my CineMotion on auto it will only turn on if pulldown is detected.
     
  19. Jul 27, 2008 #59 of 101
    cartrivision

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    I Don't know. I don't even know if the flag can be easily added before the video is uplinked to the satellite if it isn't there, or if it has to be done during the telecine process. There is also a process to automatically detect the 3:2 cadence of telecined video and do the inverse pulldown even without the presence of the flag.

    Even though the HR20 doesn’t output 1080p/24 video if it the source is 24fps, it does seem to detect it and do freeze frame (pause) different when it detects 24fps source… but it only seems to do this if the video is MPEG2.

    If you freeze frame (24fps source) MPEG2 1080i/60 video on the HR20, you get a full resolution frame assembled from two interlaced fields, unlike the freeze frame that you get on the HR20 with any other interlaced video source, which is actually a freeze field (half the lines of vertical resolution in a frame).

    With telecined MPEG2 1080i/60 video, the frame advance advances through 24 unique frames for each second of source video, showing none of the duplicate frames that you see when you frame advance through the same source encoded in MPEG4, where you see a 1-2-3-4-4 repeating cadence during frame advance. With MPEG2 video, you don’t see every 4th frame repeated during frame advance so you see 24 frames per second of source and each frozen frame is a full frame, as opposed to MPEG4 video where frame advances show you every other field (at half vertical resolution), displaying 30 fields for each second of source.

    The above phenomenon can be demonstrated by recording the same movie on HBOHD (MPEG2) and HBOWHD (MPEG4), and doing a freeze frame and frame advance on both.
     
  20. Jul 28, 2008 #60 of 101
    jediphish

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