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28-year-old grad student owes $675,000 for downloading songs

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Lord Vader, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    If he had just stolen the CDs the fines wouldn't have been so high. It was also sharing them, for nearly 10 years, and as many as 800 of them, that really gets him.

    It's roughly the same thing as duplicating them and selling them as pirated copies.

    (And he's a pretty stupid physics major if he didn't stop when they first warned him. He's a REALLY stupid one for continuing after the filed the lawsuit. His absence is not depriving anyone.)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  2. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    My guess would be the $5,000 with the $670,000 going to the extortion ring known as the RIAA.
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Problem is, shoplifting is criminal. You go to jail. The time varies by state.

    This case is civil (OK, Un-civil) with only fines at risk.


    If I were the US Attorney General, I'd be going after RIAA under RICO for extortion and blackmail.
     
  4. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Did not see that in the article. That drastically changes the scales of justice. Thought this was just another RIAA gorilla squad story.

    Still think this country would be better if they banned lawyers, and required the laws to be written (and AVAILABLE) in basic english.
    Even with the internet, its is difficult to impossible to actually find a lot of the laws you are expected to live by.
     
  5. kikkenit2

    kikkenit2 Icon

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    Your info is probably correct, but a quick google of his name and wikipedia had 31 and even listed every song. He probably was sharing thousands just like thousands of other people are. He was just way too stupid trying to fight the music industry. They have an ironclad though rediculous law. It was meant for bootleg cd media in stores and parking lots etc.
     
  6. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    There is much more at risk than just "fines." Here's what will most likely occur...

    The judgment of $675,000 is issued against him. This soon shows up on his credit reports, which totally kills him for 7 years minimum. Filing bankruptcy won't help, either, because (A) Such a judgment debt won't be discharged by the bankruptcy court because the debt will have been incurred as a result of illegal activities, and one can't use bankruptcy to escape a debt incurred via illegal acts, and (B) Said bankruptcy will remain on his credit report for 7 or 10 years (depending on what type of bankruptcy he files).

    During the 7 years that this judgment remains on his credit report, the collection agency law firm representing the plaintiff can obtain a wage garnishment order against his employer and against his bank. In the former, a certain percentage of his wages can be garnisheed (percentage dependent on his state law). A garnishment against his bank accounts would put a hold on all his funds in the account as of the date the order is presented to the bank, with the held funds being turned over to the plaintiff's attorney.

    At the end of this 7 years, before the statute of limitations runs out, the debt can be renewed twice more, each time for another 7 years. The net result is that this debt can remain on his credit report for up to 21 years, with garnishments occurring until it is satisfied.

    He's basically screwed.
     
  7. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    No doubt, but he won't be facing jail time like he would with a shoplifting charge.

    Screwed he is unless the Appeals Court reduces the fine to sensible levels. I believe that's happened in the past in these extortion cases.
     
  8. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    I found this at ars technica: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/o-tenenbaum-riaa-wins-675000-or-22500-per-song.ars

    Even they list it as $22,500 per song, but farther in the article they get to what I think is the real meat and the incredibly stupid things Tennebaum did.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  9. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    This was the appeals court that reinstated the full amount of the fines.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  10. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    +1
     
  11. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    Shoplifting usually only results in jail time if the dollar amount is above a certain level. It's dependent on individual state law, of course, but usually shoplifting is a misdemeanor that results in fines and probation. Of course, this shows up on his criminal record, which will easily be found if a potential employer ever does a background check.

    Either way, he's facing some serious trouble.
     
  12. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    Craigslist put a lot of pimps out of business.
    Some fought viciously for their survival.

    There are a number of parallels.
     
  13. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    The original complaint was for seven songs in mp3 format.

    http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/cyberone/files/2008/11/j-01-2.pdf

    The RIAA sent his parents a letter requesting $5,250.
    They were sent a check for $500, along with a letter explaining that he was a student of limited means.

    The check was returned to them.

    From there, the whole trainwreck of a so-called "legal" matter has been careening out of control.

    The young man refused to roll over. He instead pushed back.
    Now, the RIAA wants to make a poster child out of him.

    They are clueless as to how many kids these days have no idea what the DMA is, nor do they care.
    The RIAA seeks these huge sums in order to get as much money as they can to fund their next ridiculous attack. :nono2:

    Here's the whole timeline of this case. It reads like some kind of bizarre script for an episode of "The Twilight Zone".

    http://joelfightsback.com/#/about-the-case/timeline/
     
  14. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    Looks like a crusade...David vs Goliath.
     
  15. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    More like Goliath ate America.
     
  16. Marlin Guy

    Marlin Guy Hall Of Fame

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    Reading through the timeline, I LOL'd at when the kid didn't play nice and the Plaintiffs had to ask for an extension so they could cancel their victory party. :lol:
     
  17. Matt9876

    Matt9876 Hall Of Fame

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    Some of us older folks have paid for our favorite songs three or four times already: vinyl records,cassette tape,CD and last but not least my IPOD.

    I can't condone stealing copyrighted material but the way the RIAA enforces this is just wrong.
     
  18. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Which brings up a question...I have about 250 vinyl albums. Obviously, they require digging out the turntable, dusting off the needle, and cleaning the album. Is it illegal to download that album sitting in front of you on the turntable from the internet to listen to it without going through the hassle of setting up the turntable and cleaning the disc?

    How about downloading the album off the internet for cassettes in your possession? Legally, you paid for the music...
     

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