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$39.99 External HD Activation Fee - Just say 'no'.

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by brettbolt, Aug 22, 2007.

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  1. Sep 5, 2007 #121 of 158
    jrb531

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    Ok let me ask you this then...

    Renting a 622 costs me $18 a month ($6 rental + $6 DVR + $6 HD fee)

    Say I buy my 622 100% then answer this this then:

    1. Do I still have to pay a $6 DVR fee?
    2. Do I still have to pay a $6 HD fee?
    3. Do I still have to pay a $6 rental fee?

    The answers are, of course, yes-yes-no so even if I buy the 622 I still have to pay a $12 a month rental fee - I just save the $6 fee.

    Now answer this then... I am under the assumption that if you buy your own 622 that instead of paying a $6 a month rental fee you now pay a $6 a month reciever fee. Is this still correct? If so then you pay the exact same $$$ whether you buy or rent so buying is the way to go????

    If I buy a 622 then Dish charges me $144 a year for no extra service
    If I rent a 622 then Dish charges me $216 a year but I do not have to pay for the 622 up front.

    Now my my math this extra $72 a year makes sense and I do not fault Dish for charging me $6 a month so they can recover their cost (more than made up in the first 18 months considering I had to come up with $199 up front!)

    It's the "extra" $144 a year they charge that is 100% pure profit.

    Now having said this your logic in saying that since I pay $216 a year to rent my 622 is so great that another $40 means very little. This I cannot figure out at all. Are you trying to say that as long as Dish screws me on so many bogus fees that adding another $40 means nothing?

    What do you mean?

    -JB

    P.S. The "real" outrage should be from people who paid $500+ to own their 622 and have no issue with Dish still charging them all these fees
     
  2. Sep 5, 2007 #122 of 158
    lionsrule

    lionsrule Godfather

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    On the 2 622's I OWN, I do NOT pay an "HD" fee. (you only pay an HD enabling fee if you do not subscribe to an hd package). Of course you pay a dvr fee, no way around that. I pay ONE "extra receiver fee". The first receiver on your account (if you OWn it) does not cost you anything extra (monthly fee).

    My points are made in my previous posts, no point in rehashing. Again, bottom line, if you are spending time in these forums, then obviously this stuff is a BIG hobby for you.

    You've gotta spend money to have fun. A multi-m(b)illion dollar company like dish does NOT CARE if you want to be upset of $40. Me, I wanna have geek/tech fun.

    Good luck on your moral higher ground....
     
  3. Sep 5, 2007 #123 of 158
    jrb531

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    You can call that extra $6 an enabling fee or any other name you want. If you buy your 622 then why does Dish have a right to charge you anything just because you do not feel like subscribing to HD???

    I call it a fee because whether I pay the fee as a built in part of the $20 HD package or not you are still paying Dish $6.

    So you can claim that you are not paying because you subscribe to the $20 HD package but I claim that the $6 fee is just a part of the $20 fee.

    Let me ask you this.

    You have one 622 on your account and you bought it.
    I have one 622 on my account and I rent it.

    You pay a $6 "account" fee + $6 DVR "because we can" fee + $6 HD fee
    I pay a $6 "rental" fee + $6 DVR "because we can" fee + $6 HD fee

    I paid $199 up front
    You paid $500+ up front

    S0 $300 has to be made up and yes after a few years you will save money but I fail to see how renting is so evil.

    -JB
     
  4. Sep 5, 2007 #124 of 158
    JohnL

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    Jrb531,

    1) You pay the DVR Fee unless you have the Everything package
    2) You pay the HD enabling fee ONLY if you do NOT subscribe to the Dish HD package (again why would you NOT pay for the HD channels? Why pay 1-2 Thousand bucks for the display and not get the HD channels?)
    3) Lease fee is accessed only to subscribers that do not purchase the receiver.

    So whether you order the Dish HD package or not you only pay an additional $6.00 per month over purchasing the 622/722. With the 622/722 receivers' between 499-550 bucks it will take about 83 months (almost 7 years) to break even.

    I don't see any reason or advantage to owning a 622 as within that 7 years, I'll probably want a new receiver, and any residual value of the 622 will be about ten percent of its purchase value by then.

    I really can't rap my head around this I won't or can't pay the extra $20 bucks for the Dish HD channels. If you don't want HD then WHY DID YOU DROP 1-2 grand on the Display. Please don't say watching DVD's, any incremental PQ improvement from a regular DVD on a HD display isn't WORTH IT.

    John
     
  5. Sep 5, 2007 #125 of 158
    jrb531

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    Who said I dropped $2000 on a display? I picked up a Toshiba CRT HD for $500 and it looks pretty nice on both SD and HD. Someday I will get a nice big screen.

    The point is that the only reason buying your reciever is no longer a real option is because Dish adds so many made up BS fees to try and keep us from doing so because they make more money on these fees.

    Without question the DVR fee was tacked on because the other guys were doing it and Dish figures they could get away with it. It's pure 100% profit with no service provided.

    Now we have this $6 no-HD fee that is also a pure 100% profit as punishment for those who do not want to pay $20 for HD. Even if you buy the darn receiver!

    The "rental fee" vs "service fee" had to be the scam of the century!

    If it really costs Dish $5 a month to "service" you account then this would be on top of the rental fee correct?

    The rental fee covers the cost of equipment so what does this have to do with the service fee? This so called service fee is, like the $6 no-HD fee, a punishment fee.

    If you do not do what we want you to do we will add extra fees until you change your mind!

    The only fee I find fair is a rental fee. If you do not buy your equipment it is fair to charge a reasonable monthly rental and I feel that $5 and $6 is very fair.

    Everything else is a scam IMHO. If dish needs the extra revenue then raise the package prices and stop adding all these silly little fees!

    -JB
     
  6. Sep 5, 2007 #126 of 158
    JohnL

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    JB,

    Please tell me where is the BS fee?

    1) DVR FEE; I understand the DVR fee as almost all integrated STB's (Cable/Satellite) with DVR functions have a fee. If you don't like it then don't bother with a DVR, personally the addition fee is WELL WORTH the COST.

    2) HD Enabling fee; The Enabling fee is only so Dish can make back their hardware/installation investment in you if you do NOT pay for the HD package, but again the Enabling fee is only accessed to a Leased HD subscriber. In general Dish invested in excess of $600 for each New HD subscriber or existing Dish'n upgrade subscriber. It's not unreasonable for them to expect to make some sort of profit from their investment. Really the HD Enabling fee is to encourage you to get the HD package as the difference is $14.00 bucks. This looks like a deal to me, 39 Hd channels for that additional $14 over the HD Enabling fee. Which probably the reason they have the FEE, more or less expecting a 90 percent plus HD uptake rate.

    3) Receiver Lease fee; The Lease fee is just that, again I don't see any reason for a provider, that hands out free or highly subsidized equipment with installation, to expect a separate revenue stream because it this.

    As I said before owning a 622/722 receiver only saves you 6 bucks per month over purchasing. I'd rather have that money to investment in something else or even in the bank.

    Dish, and for that matter DirecTV and Cable more or less have the same policies. THEY WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT WOULDN'T YOU? Call your Cable company and ask them if you can get a HD BOX without adding the HD channels or any addition fees, they will likely LAUGH out loud at you. The same goes for DirecTV.

    If you analyze the Lease/Purchase costs, Dish is making about 13 percent gross on their lease versus a Receiver Sale. This is not the outrageous gouging you imply. Subtract Churn, hardware recovery, and Equipment losses, its likely less than a 10 percent net return on their investment. WOW, what a ripoff, NOT.

    As is always the case if you want the latest and greatest you will pay EXTRA. Don't like it, then sell your HDTV display and forget it.

    John
     
  7. Sep 5, 2007 #127 of 158
    jrb531

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    What does Dish provide for the $6 DVR fee? Well worth it???? How do you figure? Well worth it to have a DVR yes... well worth WHAT for $6 a month. What service does Dish provide for that $6?

    If you buy your 622 for $500 or $600 then why does Dish charge you a $6 fee per month if you do not want HD?

    You seem to be looking at justifying these charges in the overall picture. Yes I love my DVR and cannot live without it. Does this mean that Dish can add any old charge on to a DVR and it's all fine and good because we all love DVRs?

    Dish wants us all to pay an extra $20 for HD. At this time I do not want HD so it's ok to add punishment fees?

    I fully understand that for 18 months I have to pay an extra $6 a month because I do not want HD so that Dish can recover the extra cost of the 622. After this 18 months or if I buy the 622 outright then this $6 fee is not only unjustified but WRONG!

    I keep asking questions about what these fees pay for and you keep responding that DVR's are great and HD is great yadda yadda.

    It matters not how great these things may very well be but Dish still has to justify in at least a small way why they charge what they do. I predict that someday all the providers will have to answer these questions and one of the main reasons they are not being held accountable are people such as yourself who come to their defense trying to say why Dish and the other distributors should be able to charge whatever they want whether they are providing an extra service or not.

    -JB
     
  8. Sep 5, 2007 #128 of 158
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Didn't we already have this argument?
     
  9. Sep 5, 2007 #129 of 158
    dbconsultant

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    And on more threads than this one!:lol:
     
  10. Sep 5, 2007 #130 of 158
    JohnL

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    JB,

    Obviously you don't feel the fees are warranted.

    This is fine with me. I suggest you sell your HD Display, and or drop Dish for another provider if you feel you are paying to much.

    I love my HD Display, as well as being PROUD that I'm providing my Display with THE LARGEST currently available package of HD programing.

    If I was your display I would go on Strike until I could tune more than 3-4 OTA HD channels. ;>)

    John
     
  11. Sep 5, 2007 #131 of 158
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I am having deja vu all over again.

    The bottom line is still the same old bottom line... if anyone feels like he is paying too much for Dish, then stop paying too much for Dish. Some folks seem so bent out of shape, that I can only figure at this point they like being angry and arguing, otherwise they would have walked away long ago.

    There are lots of companies and services that I do not fee are worth the money... so I do not have those services! I do not get continually aggravated over them, instead I stop spending that money. Its a novel concept :)
     
  12. Sep 5, 2007 #132 of 158
    jrb531

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    Guys I know this has gone on and on. In my defense it does not start with me using copy and paste to start the very same tired questions.

    To date only a single person has ever even tried to answer and I think it was HDMe who was the only one to come right out and say "they do it because they can"

    I guess it just bugs me to no end for people to try and justify all these silly fees.

    Why does Dish charge us a DVR fee?
    Why does Dish charge us a HD enabling fee?
    Why does Dish charge an account fee when you do not rent?

    If people would just accept "because they can" then we can lay this to rest. This came up once again in regard to the new "because we can" added to the list:

    Why does Dish charge $40 to turn on the USB port?

    "BECAUSE THEY CAN"

    The fees suck and someday the government will investigate the Pay TV industry (for real LOL) and then they will have to answer. Until then please stop acting like you are on the Dish Payroll for the PR department.

    If they thought we would accept $12 or $18 or $50 a month in rental fees they would charge that. If they thought people would pay $100 to turn on a minor USB feature then they would. It does not cost them $6 a month to maintain your account on a computer system. It does not cost them $6 a month for a DVR to errrr ummmm ROTFL NM :) Once your 622 is paid for (either by outright buying it or at eh end of your 18 month commit) then the $6 a month no-HD fee is pure profit.

    Saying how great and nobel Dish is because they screw us a tiny bit less than DTV or Cable... well that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :)

    -JB
     
  13. Sep 5, 2007 #133 of 158
    tsmacro

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    What I don't get is why you insist that you're being screwed by dish? I agree they want your money and are apparantly getting it, but that doesn't makes them thieves who are sticking it to ya, it makes them a business. A business who's in business to make money, there's nothing wrong with that, it's thanks to such businesses most of us can put a roof over our heads, food on the table and yes programming on the tv. It also baffles me that you seem to think Dish or anyone for that matter owes you an explanation for the fees that Dish charges. This is just merely the way they have set up their business model and it seems to work for the most part, they're making money and we're getting tv at a price most of us seem to think is fair. Anyway I know my post isn't going to change your obsession with Dish's fees. If it makes you feel any better, yes, it's because they can. :D
     
  14. Sep 5, 2007 #134 of 158
    DoyleS

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    Ok JB I think your point is understood. I guess I am curious where this leaves you. Are you paying the fees? Seems that you either have to do something or this whole thing is going to get real frustrating.
    I for one am willing to accept some of the fees that I don't have control over. With others, I choose to not buy. No Microsoft Vista for me, XP works ok. I like the OSX revs that Apple puts out along with some of their new iLife and iWork so I am paying those fees to upgrade. Also buying a new iMac. I gave up long ago complaining about the price of gas here in California and I still drive a Suburban.

    ..Doyle
     
  15. Sep 5, 2007 #135 of 158
    jrb531

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    What I cannot understand is how you can sit here and say that Dish is operating like any other business.

    Let's take the DVR fee for example

    Maybe it's just me but when I am charged something the first question in my mind is "what am I getting for the fee"

    Now you could deabte the amount of said fee but would you not at the very least assume you were getting something... anything for said fee?

    Same goes for the no-HD fee for those who buy their 622. This does not trouble you in the least?

    How about the "Rental" vs "account" fee? If you don't rent from us then we're going to add on the very same fee but call it something else.

    So being screwed we are and just because the other guys do it does NOT make it right. Sure business is out to make a buck and as much as they can but in these examples they are charging us fees for NO service and people seem to want to defend this saying that it's somehow ok to charge us for nothing because the other guys are screwing us too.

    Amazing!

    -JB
     
  16. Sep 5, 2007 #136 of 158
    jrb531

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    I have a rented 622 with the basic package. I pay the $6 DVR fee and the $6 no-HD punishment fee. I have a 501 with no DVR fee that I will not upgrade because of the DVR fee.

    I have no choice. The lessor of multiple evils because DTV is worse and I do not think I have to say anything about Comcast :)

    FIOS has been held up in Chicago due to the city wanting their usual bribes and cable fees.

    Has this affected me? Yes... I cancelled HD and dropped to the lowest package. I'd love to have HD but I'm not willing to pay $20 a month on top of the core packages.

    As other can attest... I only want 5 channels + locals but Dish has made sure that the 5 channels I want are spread out on all four packages (3 basic and HD) so those 5 channels would end up costing me $20 per if I was to fall for the way Pay TV wants us to think.

    The day "anyone" offers another option I'm gone. On a more positive note I love the 622 and would get a second one to replace my 501 but not for another $12 on top of the $18 I already pay to rent the first box.

    $30 each month for 2 622's before I pay for even one channel of service? No friggin way and I looked into buying the 622's but then I pay the same fees.

    All to watch a handfull of shows spread out on 5 channels!

    -JB
     
  17. Sep 5, 2007 #137 of 158
    JohnL

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    JB,

    First off Dish is NOT the only company that has a say as to which core packages the channels land in.

    Again one more time there is NO HD Enabling fee if you OWN the receivers, Purchase the Everything Pack NO DVR fee, own both receivers you would only pay the Extra Receiver Fee of $6.00.

    Look Dish offers a service, with some fees. If you don't want the service or its too rich for your CHEAP wallet then drop it.

    If enough people felt the same way Dish wouldn't be in business, but we all know Dish is attracting hundreds of Thousands of Net subscriber additions every quarter. If they weren't maybe Dish wouldn't have these fees, again go with what you want or won't pay for.

    John
     
  18. Sep 5, 2007 #138 of 158
    tsmacro

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    Well it would be easy for Dish to make all those fees go away, all they'd have to do is abolish them all and then just charge more for the basic channel packages. But Dish has decided on a business model that gives you a little more breakdown in their bills and gives you some idea why they charge what they do. Lets see a DVR charge, why might that be? Well could it be that DVR's cost Dish more money to build and then continue to support? And pretty much you can do the same right down the line for other receiver fees, certain receivers cost them more money to maintain, so they've decided to make these receivers have additional fees rather than just spreading out the costs to all subscribers. A "penalty fee" for not subscribing to HD w/ a HD box? Well duh.....they want you to subscribe to the HD pack, that's what the receiver is for and there's still the costs to them in producing the box in the first place and continuing to support it, so why would you expect not to pay fee to have it? So how hard was that to figure out? I still don't see how Dish is doing anything different than any other business or how they're screwing anybody. But all the effort you've put into telling everyone about it makes me think it must be true. Don't worry i'm sure thanks to you the world will see the light before too long and Dish will rue the day they decided to screw you by charging you "fees"! :sure:
     
  19. Sep 5, 2007 #139 of 158
    DoyleS

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    At this point, everyone wants a piece of the entertainment delivery business. Comcast bought up lots of small cable companies across the country in an effort to get control of the business. Along came Dish and Direct and they took a good chunk out of their business. They offered distant networks and locals to people in rural areas not serviced by cable. Comcast responded by bundling high speed internet. Direct carved out the NFL ticket and Dish is pushing heavily with increased HD content. Blockbuster did the same by dominating the local Video rental business until Netflix showed up. VOD and DVRs changed the way people watch. Soon you will see increased competition as the phone companies try to gain back that high speed internet capability and delivery of entertainment material. I think a lot of us would like to see a reasonably priced ala carte offering and maybe with the changes in the marketplace, that will happen. There are an awful lot of channels in my Dish 250 that I never tune to but have to subscribe to in order to get the channels I really want. The $12/mo for the 622 seems reasonable and I like the ability to easily record OTA HD. Not that I couldn't before but the user interface and guide on the 622 is much better than the PC card that I was using previously. So, it is worth the $12/month to me for those features. So, today I have to say they charge the fees because they can but tomorrow..... maybe they won't be able to.

    ..Doyle
     
  20. Sep 5, 2007 #140 of 158
    jrb531

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    If you buy your 622 they still charge the $6 no-hd fee. They do not care if you own or rent. Call them up... I dare you and ask if you can add an owned 622 to your account with no HD :)

    -JB
     
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