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3D TV .. What doesn't work (Hardware)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Doug Brott, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. jonesron

    jonesron AllStar

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    Jun 23, 2007
    We know that the 3D 720p side-by-side format being used by Directv to distribute ESPN 3D is not supported by some 3DTVs and is not a required format by the HDMI 1.4a standard. ESPN distributes their 3D programming in both 720p top/bottom and 720p side-by-side formats and Directv chose to use the one that is this not required to be supported by 3DTVs. Futher Directv has disabled for 3D programs the feature of their HD receivers and DVRs to upscale 720p to 1080i. However, recent tests have shown that through a fairly complex process that it is possible to fool the HD-DVRs (on at least certain of the HD-DVR models) to go into a mode where the ESPN 3D 720p side-by-side program is being upscaled by the Directv HD-DVR to a 1080i side-by-side format (which is a required 3D format in the HDMI 1.4a standard). This process and the results have be duplicated by other Directv users. 3DTVs that cannot handle the 720p side-by-side format have been shown to be correctly work with this upscaled 1080i side-by-side signal. My equipment is a JVC DLA-RS40 projector (3D-ready with HDMI 1.4a inputs, supports all required 3D formats but does not support the optional 3D 720p side-by-side format) and a Directv HR-22 HD-DVR.

    SO A REQUEST TO DIRECTV IF YOU INSIST ON USING THE 3D 720P SIDE-BY-SIDE FORMAT - - PLEASE PROVIDE A FIRMWARE UPDATE TO ENABLE 720P-TO-1080i UPSCALING FOR 3D PROGRAMS BEING DISTRIBUTED BY DIRECTV IN 720P FORMAT.
     
  2. itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 17, 2008
    jonesron, others have posted that your workaround no longer works. Maybe its a function of the receiver model. Mine is an HR24-100. Could I ask you to list the specific steps to take to try to fool the HD-DVRs. Maybe reference some airing 3D recordings as an example. I have several recorded (that work). But for example I VOD'd the BCS championship, which trigger the 720p support message and won't play.
     
  3. paul91

    paul91 Legend

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    Sep 27, 2006
    Does anybody have the Samsung PN50C490 3d TV and get it to work with the Directv 3D channels?
     
  4. jonesron

    jonesron AllStar

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    Jun 23, 2007
    Below is a direct copy and paste from Darin over on the AVS forum for how he got it to work with his HDMI 1.3 equipped AVR and JVC RS40, which is a 3D ready projector that supports only the 3D formats required by the HDMI 1.4a standard and does not support the optional 720p side-by-side format that is being used by Directv to distribute ESPN 3D:

    "I have an RS40 and had it hooked up through a receiver that is a couple of years old (pre 1.4). I tried playing the football game that is currently on ESPN3D and got an error that my display wasn't 3D. So I disconnected the HDMI cable coming out of my audio receiver and plugged it straight into an HR22. Then I watched a little bit of the football in 3D without even thinking about any resolution issues. The 3D seemed to be working fine, although I didn't test it for long. I then switched over to a Jessica Simpson 3D show I had recorded earlier and watched it for a few minutes (much of it looked like it was 2D without the glasses on and then the image separation would come in and go away sometimes). I switched back to the football game and was surprised to get an error that my display doesn't support 720p 3D (or maybe it said 720p SBS) and I got no picture.

    So, I started again with the football game going through the receiver and got back to the error about my display not being 3D. When I moved the HDMI cable to go straight from the HR22 to the RS40 I again got to watch the game in 3D. I noticed that a message came up saying the signal was 1080i SBS and I believe this message was from the RS40. And the light on the HR22 for res said 1080i. Going to the Jessica Simpson concert and then back again resulted in not being able to watch the game, but instead getting the error about not supporting 720p. And pushing the res button on the HR22 did nothing (the light stayed on 1080i)."​

    And here is one of the first follow-up posts from another AVS Forum member:

    "Followed Darin's steps, recv'd the "doesn't support 3D", pulled the HDMI2 going to my Denon receiver, connected PJ direct cable, switched immediately to HDMI1 (different than Darin's steps as he used one cable and I left my receiver=>PJ HDMI2 intact). A picture on ch. 103nD appeared playing a Guitar Center Uplugged session but it was not in 3D until I hit 'Info' key on DTV receiver and the banner went away, and Viola! . . . 3D Magic."​

    Since Darin made his first post a couple of weeks ago a few other AVS forum members have had some success using his approachk or variations, to get their Directv HD-DVRs to go into a mode where it is upscaling ESPN 3D to 1080i side-by-side. However, I don't recall seeing any reports on this from a user specifically saying they were using a HR24.

    The reason for my original post was not to provide a work around. Rather it is to demonstrate at least some of the Directv STV/DVRs are technically capable of upscaling the 3D 720 side-by-side signals to 1080i side-by-side but for some reason Directv has decided to disable this capability when a 3D signal is being broadcast. From the point of view of the upscaling the 720p side-by-side signal is identical to a standard 720p 2D video. This crazy decision by Directv is preventing quite a few Directv customers from being able to view ESPN 3D on their new 3DTVs and I am requesting that Directv issue a firmware update to enable this upscaling or to broadcast all of their 3D programming in one of official (i.e., mandatory) formats defined by the HDMI 1.4a (which all 3DTV claiming HDMI 1.4 support must conform to).
     
  5. Gotchaa

    Gotchaa Legend

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    Jan 25, 2006
    If this is the only solution DirecTV could offer, I would suggest there is a menu option specifically for 720p-SBS upscaling outside of the standard Native/Resolution support options.
     
  6. Gotchaa

    Gotchaa Legend

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    Jan 25, 2006

    Some bad news for Pioneer AVR users with HDMI 1.4:

    -There will not be a firmware update from Pioneer to fix issues with DirecTV DVR
    -Pioneer states DirecTV is not working with them
    -Pioneer is focusing on Spring release, in which they state all their receivers will work with existing DirecTV box

    -Bottom line they are not going to pull engineering resources off a new product release cycle to fix an issue they feel is DirecTV's making.


    I am sure DirecTV engineers feel the same way :nono2:


    End Result=Consumer screwed again :confused:
     
  7. itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    Uhm, I'd feel better if someone from DirecTV can confirm they aren't planning a fix. I don't doubt you, but I do doubt that Directv wouldn't want to fix my ability to buy a 3D PPV movie from them, and stay with them as a customer for their 3D content.
     
  8. Gotchaa

    Gotchaa Legend

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    Jan 25, 2006
    Pioneer has no plans of issuing any firmware update, that doesn't mean DirecTV cannot work to fix the issue. It's apparently not a concern for DirecTV because their response is plug you DVR directly into your TV and run optical to your receiver.
     
  9. taz291819

    taz291819 Godfather

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    Oct 18, 2006
    Wait, that doesn't make any sense, them blaming Directv I mean. If their Spring releases are going to work 100%, then they already know how to make it work, and could fix the other AVRs.
     
  10. Gotchaa

    Gotchaa Legend

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    Jan 25, 2006
    That is probably a correct statement, but Pioneer engineers are currently focused on new AVR release, they are not willing to have them spend time chasing down DirecTV. It's not just DirecTV's fault, there is no initiative of either CEM to work this out.

    I don't know the details of what is changing in the new models, but I believe if it was a simple fix on the current they would just do it, doesn't sound like it is without replicating/fixing/testing/releasing, not a day's work...

    Also keep in mind the updates to their AVRs in the past have been very costly in service centers, not sure if all the AVRs now can just be updated by owners. Pioneer is a feature/first to market/volume dealer...their pricing and service reflects this for better or worse.
     
  11. itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    There is no mention in the Pioneer VSX-1020-k manual or on the internet of a firmware upgrade feature by the user. I see a mention of the their service center doing it. So a Pioneer upgrade is moot. I think we're at the mercy of DirecTV to give us a firmware upgrade. I wonder what all would be involved, and I'd love to help them test it.
     
  12. nogascans

    nogascans New Member

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    Sep 7, 2007
    I have an issue with a new projector.

    Sony Projector: VPL-VW90ES

    DirecTV Receiver: HR23-700 software 0x452

    Direct HDMI connection from DirecTV receiver to projector.

    initially worked, but now on n3D I get error code 797, this program is broadcast in 3D. Your display does not support 720p.

    on the ESPN3D channel, I get the same 797.

    Projector shows correct 720p source input on info, but only blue display page of DirecTV channel with error code.

    Also, just to try, I recorded a VOD movies SOS earth, ad it plays back fine in 3D??? Any ideas?

    Greg
     
  13. Feb 2, 2011 #153 of 317
    Raddle

    Raddle Cool Member

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    Feb 2, 2011
    I am having trouble viewing some 3D shows, including some I previously recorded and watched. I get any of three different error messages: "Your TV does not support 1080p/24," "Your TV does not support 720p" or "Your TV does not support this program's content protection."

    My set-up:

    DirecTV DVR -> VSX-32 -> Samsung PN63C8000

    I spoke with DirecTV and we made sure the output is set to "Native" and all the resoultions are checked.
     
  14. Feb 2, 2011 #154 of 317
    RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Dripping...
    Remove the VSX-32 from the signal path will probably fix that problem. I tried to different Pioneers, including a VSX-32, and it tells the DIRECTV receiver that it can only support 1080i.
     
  15. Feb 2, 2011 #155 of 317
    itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    I've also have a Pioneer AVR and Samsung PN58c8000 and have that same problem with ESPN 3D and now with DirecTV PPV 3D. It seems the culprit is a compatibility issue with DirecTV and Pioneer. Reports are in this thread (above), and also over here and actually all over the internet.

    Setting to "Native" doesn't fix anything for me. I stay abreast of these threads and this issue and there is some reason to believe that DirecTV could fix this problem with a firmware upgrade. I'm referring to this post.

    Others suggest we should run HDMI directly from our DTV receiver to the TV, then run an optical cable to our AVR. RAD suggests hooking up an HDMI switch. These are not very practical solutions for me given how I've programmed all my remotes on how to easily change devices, and that there are way too many cables and devices behind my rack already. You would think that since the issue now prevents us from buying the $6.99 3D PPVs, that DirecTV would have an interest in fixing the problem. That's my only hope since there's no function to upgrade firmware in my Pioneer.

    Maybe someone in the know at DirecTV could give us an indication about this as far as being a known issue and whether there is any chance that an upcoming firmware update might be coming?
     
  16. Feb 2, 2011 #156 of 317
    Raddle

    Raddle Cool Member

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    Feb 2, 2011
    Running another HDMI cable plus an optical to the TV is not practical for me. My cables run inside the walls. I'm not going through that again. I don't think we can count on Pioneer to fix it. I hope DTV makes it work.
     
  17. Feb 2, 2011 #157 of 317
    itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    RAD, we do appreciation your workaround solution, and that may be helpful for some. But I share Raddle's concerns. For many of us, and for many numerous reasons, it just isn't a practical solution.

    That said, let's say I opt for the 'HDMI switch solution' so that I leave my current setup as is, AND devise a direct connect/audio optical to AVR solution. I would use a Rosewill RME-416E3 that I have in the closet. I have some questions about that:

    1) Will the introduction of the switch affect picture quality at all? How?
    2) If I attach an optical cable from the HR to the Pioneer, how does that affect the audio via the HDMI? Does the HR output the audio simultaneously both by HDMI and Optical?
    3) The switch has CEC functions. What is that and how might it affect things?

    Thanks!
     
  18. Feb 2, 2011 #158 of 317
    RAD

    RAD Well-Known Member

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    Dripping...
    #1 - It shouldn't, since it's digital it should either work or not.
    #2 - Audio won't be effected at all, both HDMI and optical/coax outputs are active. Since DD5.1 is the highest audio the DIRECTV receiver will put out you won't miss anything by going optical/coax.
    #3 - Sorry, don't know that one.
     
  19. Feb 2, 2011 #159 of 317
    Raddle

    Raddle Cool Member

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    Feb 2, 2011
    I filled out a trouble form at DirecTV. I spent some time in the DTV forums. There are a lot of posts in there about this problem. Most claim DirecTV has chosen to send optional formats which some AVRs and projectors can't handle. It appears DirecTV could fix the problem by sticking only with mandatory formats, Alternatively, Pioneer could support optional formats. Based on Pioneer's history, I know they very rarely release firmware upgrades.
     
  20. Feb 2, 2011 #160 of 317
    itzme

    itzme Hall Of Fame

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    The Pioneer option seems moot, since there is no way for the consumer to do the upgrade. I'm at DirecTV's mercy. Did DTV get back to you on the trouble form. Where can I access a trouble form?

    Thanks!
     

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