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70 HBO bad pic but 509 ok (also discovery/uhd)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by newsposter, Oct 13, 2007.

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  1. newsposter

    newsposter Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 12, 2003
    i haven't tested this in a while so sat down to do it today. Everything was good except the following:

    99b xponder 1 had zero on both tuners even using the meter (but since i've never missed a show that i am recording i guess i dont care)

    I see a lot more zeros on 103a but i guess those are going to be used for other things and weren't even active for my old readings

    so it appears all is mostly well here at last and that reaiming the dish was the problem.

    edit..i shouldnt have spoken..i haven't actually watched the channels in the 70s a lot..went there and 72 is fine, 73 wont come in, nor will 74, 75 is ok, 76 is ok, 78 is ok 79 is ok

    all 119 and 110 signals are ok though and there's no error on the screen and there is the same problem on both HDtivos too.

    i checked 110 x12 and it's in the 90s
     
  2. newsposter

    newsposter Hall Of Fame

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    Nov 12, 2003
    i guess it's because i dont watch the channels much but today did turn to channels on the 110 and got 771...tuner 1 was fine..tuner 2 was in the 40s...i guess the reaim didnt fix this after all.
     
  3. K4SMX

    K4SMX Hall Of Fame

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    Dang, newsposter, you've got a little black cloud over your head! Is that on both the HR10 and the HR20? This is not an alignment problem.
     
  4. newsposter

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    Nov 12, 2003
    hdtivo is fine on channel 509 and hr20 is not....gotta be the tuner then in hr20 right?
     
  5. K4SMX

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    I think you've already gone through switching your cables and switching your BBC's, and the problem stayed with tuner 2, so yes, that would seem the only other explanation for your problem. Time to get going with the DVD recorder and dump your HD.....
     
  6. newsposter

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    if it's only the 110, i can deal with it, anything i miss on hbo will repeat and there are like what, 4 channels on the 110 anyway?
     
  7. K4SMX

    K4SMX Hall Of Fame

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    Seven!:

    Since you've still got one good tuner on 110, you can always control which tuner you're using or about to use with the A > B > C > A method. It's a little tricky sometimes....
     
  8. newsposter

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    Nov 12, 2003
    it's happening again tonight

    remind me of the abca method. And i do plan on trying to record the 110 only on HDtivo but if i would want to record it on the hr20, how could i record the same channel at the same time to ensure a good recording? Would it have to be a manual recording?
     
  9. K4SMX

    K4SMX Hall Of Fame

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    May 19, 2007
    OK. Let's say you want to record something on a channel that's on the 110, and you want to make sure you're on Tuner 1.

    Method 1: Do a Menu > Restart Recorder from the Setup menu, and when the lights go off, quickly disconnect the Sat 2 antenna cable, but not the BBC, so that when it re-boots, it'll re-boot in the single tuner mode. You can then put it in standby. When the previously programmed recording begins, it'll have to use Tuner 1. You'll have to reverse this procedure if you want to go back to using both tuners later.

    Method 2: Temporarily disconnect the Tuner 2 coax from the BBC while tuned to any channel except the one you want to record. If the picture goes to gray screen, you know you're already on Tuner 2. If you still have a picture, you know you're on Tuner 1, so change to any channel except the one you want to record, so that you get the gray screen and SFSS on Tuner 2 (771). You can then reconnect the coax. If you then put the machine in standby, when the previously programmed recording begins, it will automatically change from Tuner 2 to Tuner 1 and record the program.

    The A > B > C > A "trick" merely assures that if you land on a bad tuner when trying to watch channel "A," and you want to watch that channel "A" on the other tuner instead, you can force the receiver to use the opposite tuner by next going to channel "B," then to channel "C," and finally back to the original channel "A." You'll then be on the channel you want on the other tuner.
     
  10. tritch

    tritch Legend

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    newsposter, I recently activated my HR20-100 and have been experiencing the same issue as you with the 110 satellite on tuner 2 only. The problem has been identical in every respect to your earlier posts.

    You've covered a lot of troubleshooting so far which will save me some time in narrowing this problem down. Based on your earlier posts, I can logically conclude several things:

    1) It can't be a dish aim problem because you would see low signal readings on the 110 satellite on tuner 1 as well. My tuner 1 is in the upper 90's on the 110. All other satellites are in the upper 90's on both tuners. This rules out an alignment problem.

    2) It can't be a faulty LNB or cable problem because the problem would have followed over to tuner 1 after you swapped the cables.

    Since I don't use a WB68, this leaves only 3 other causes:

    1) Bad BBC's
    2) Bad tuner 2
    3) Software issue

    I've done some research and found other threads on dbstalk and directv which describe the same issue. Here's the fix for some of them:

    1) Replace both BBC's (not just one BBC).
    or
    2) Replace the HR20.
    or
    3) Some claim it's a software issue with 0x1be.

    At this point, I'm going to change both BBC's to see if this works. It's hard to believe this could be the problem because of the separate feeds to both tuners. I suppose it's possible that one or both BBC's is inducing a "feedback" problem to the LNB's built-in multiswitch thereby desensitizing the tuner 2. It's not likely but who knows.

    If this doesn't work, I will wait until the next software release to see if anything changes. As a last resort, I will replace the HR20. I'm hesitant to replace the HR20 because I use the OTA tuners and most of the replacements right now are HR21's.

    I will let you know how things work out.

    In the meantime, I'm using the method that K4SMX has suggested (A > B > C > A) so that I can avoid the problem with tuner 2 for those HD channels on satellite 110. If I knew that those HD channels were going to be converted to MPEG4 and moved to the 103 satellite in the near future, I probably wouldn't go to all this trouble because all the other HD channels work great.......
     
  11. K4SMX

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    Did you ever try removing the BBC from tuner 2 altogether, since it's not required for 110 reception? That would definitely prove there's some problem with the BBC or with the HR20's tuner 2 interacting with BBC's in general.
     
  12. newsposter

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    tritch could be any of the 3 things you mentioned, just glad I have 2 hdtivos and as long as my memory reminds me to only record the 110 on them i'm golden. But i pity the folk that only use the hr20 with no backup. (of course if sho/hbo move off the 110 that would be wonderful...though i know there are other stations on there but i forget what they are)

    As you noted in my testing though, swapping every combo of bbc and cable has never moved the problem to tuner 1. Now i admit i dont use the hr20 that much except for the new hd channels so really can say for sure it's never happened. But for all the hours of testing i have done, it's never happened during that time.
     
  13. tritch

    tritch Legend

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    You are correct, this would be a good test. I thought about removing both BBC's from the cables and rechecking the 110 signal on tuner 2. The only reason that I haven't done that yet is because of limited access to the BBC's in my entertainment center. I just figured that I would wait until the new BBC's were delivered before going to the trouble to remove them.

    newsposter, correct me if I'm wrong, but during your troubleshooting did you ever directly connect the cables to the HR20 with both BBC's removed?
     
  14. newsposter

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    Nov 12, 2003
    i could only find this

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1218922&postcount=14

    then took out BBC on ONLY tuner 2 and got

    94 91 96

    --------------
    however the good and bad signal on tuner 2 was so sporadic i cannot say removing the bbc made it be a good signal, only that it was a good signal after removing it

    how's that for doublespeak? Maybe i'll dig up the link for some BBCs and get 2 more for the fun of it. I assume they are still free for the asking.
     
  15. K4SMX

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    Nobody's had much luck lately ordering BBC's on the internet, if they're still listed there, however telephoning tech support works every time.
     
  16. blc

    blc Legend

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    Sep 29, 2007
    Guys, I'm in the same boat. Sat 110 issues on ts 8, 10, and 12 on Tuner 2 only. Done all the swaps of cable and bbc's. Even brought the other HR20 from the bedroom that has been working fine with one cable (i.e., only Tuner 1 active) and placed it in the living room. Same problem with Tuner 2 after short period of time. I completely believe that it is a software issue. Too many others with same problem occurring. I have searched other sites, including Dtv forum site, and issue appears on all forums. Sometimes it is HR20-700s, sometimes 100s, and even some of the other boxes. I have no clue. Hope someone can figure it out. As long as I only use one cable feed (only Tuner 1 active), then no problems. However, I sure would like to record while watching something else. By the way, my signals are also all in the 90's on all sats--except of course when Tuner 2 has its issues.

    Edit: both boxes are on the 11/07/07 1be software
     
  17. K4SMX

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    And what does your tuner 2 do on 110 when you completely remove both BBC's?
     
  18. blc

    blc Legend

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    Sep 29, 2007
    I will let you know tomorrow. Sometimes it takes a few hours for the problem with tuner 2 to manifest.
     
  19. blc

    blc Legend

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    Sep 29, 2007
    Pulled both bbc's and no problem with Tuner 2. However, I remembered that the problems on Tuner 2 would generally show up (when bbc's connected) after I first checked the 110 and 119 and then went to the 103(b). So maybe Tuner 2 is not recognizing the 110 signals (and also noticed ts 23 on 119 drops to 80ish) after going to the 103(b) signals (no basis for this other than pure guessing at this point).

    Edit: scratch that idea about first having to go the 103(b), as I added the bbc's back in and turned the unit back on and was immediately missing a channel it was tuned to (a 110 channel) and signals were ts8=50, 10=0, 12=0 and 119 ts23=63.
     
  20. blc

    blc Legend

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    Sep 29, 2007
    After an unplug and reboot, and switching cable and bbc between tuners, here is the result. I was right about keeping the signal meters on the 101, 110, or 119 and it not causing tuner 2 to have problems. I kept the signal meter charts up for about 10 minutes switching between tuner 1 and 2 on 101, 110, and 119. All signals remained in the 90's on the transponders that are necessary (a couple of non-used are lower but don't matter).

    However, after then finally goint to the 103(b) signal meters, Tuner 1 did great but Tuner 2 had a drop on a few of the 103(b) signals of 2-8 points. Then when I switched back to 110 and 119, Tuner 2 was clearly having issues. The 119 dropped a few points on Tuner 2 and ts23 dropped down to 59 from 95 (and ts25 that is not used as far as I know went to 0). The 110 on tuner 2 dropped to 48, 61, and 52 from 95's earlier.

    Thus, the issue clearly presents once the tuners are directed to the new mpeg4's on 103(b). As I have been able to repeat this scenario twice now. That is, no problems with signal meters staying on 101, 110, and 119 after a hard reset. But once the 103(b) signals are tested, Tuner 2 drops points on the 103b (still all above 80) and drops significantly on some of the 110 and a few 119 transponders.

    It appears that Tuner 2 cannot recognized the signals or is having some type of interface issues after being tuned to the 103b.
     
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