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7100/7200 users need to standup and demand answers

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by stonecold, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    I am the proud owner of two Orginal Dishplayers aka model 7100/7200.
    I am not stupid I know that for a large percentage of the mysterous unsubbed boxes are being hacked do to the fact that dish network can not ecm them because of microsoft which has made them the ultimate icon in the hacking community.
    But I have two of them that are subscribed and not used in any illegal activities.

    But a couple of things are bothering me and I simple cant get answers from anyone. Not DP support group or any one else up the food chain about The support for the Dish 500 cards aka the Yellow card Which are found in 301.13s and other newer models. Everything I have read and heard over the phone is that there is no plans on making the DPs dish 500 card compatible or supporting Superdish. While I could care less about superdish though it a valid concern for people that are getting locals now on one of the two new birds that dish net uses for superdish. I am concern about what they are going to do. When there dtv like card swap completes what are they going to do totally kill off the Nagravision 1 encyprtion stream leaving users up well you know what creek. Are they going to swap out irds. As I will refuse anything but a 721. As the 721 is the only ird I personally belive to be a replacement for the 7x00s Why do I keep 7x00s A. The interface it one of the best I seen and it was so good that They copied alot of it from what I seen with a 721 and 921 demo units. The search and record functions totally blow away the 50x series of recivers. Basicly I ill refuse any ird swapout unless they exchange it for a 721.

    I am tired of the plan of lack of answers coming from dishnetwork about these recivers. Dishnetwork has updated almost all the recivers to accept the new nagravision cards featuring the new nagravision 2 decyprtion Heck even the old 2700 supports it now. Except for reports for a few old odd ball recievers not quite working out unconfirm reports of the model 1000 and the 2200 so far.

    Basicly I want answers and I think all orginal DP users need to set there foot down right here in this thread and voice ther concern about the lack of information and the constant spreading of misinformation that goes on there I want solid answers from a company that I have come to respect and love.
     
  2. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

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    For what it is worth, I have not been able to get any answers on this either. Even my most reliable contacts can't provide any information on what is going to happen once the nagravision 1 decryption stream is turned off.

    SOMEONE at DISH knows the answer but they sure are keeping that information VERY private. I agree with you that DISH should let us know the future of our DishPlayers (models 7100 and 7200).
     
  3. Bob Haller

    Bob Haller Banned User

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    Mar 24, 2002
    There are less than 100,000 of them still in use. I heard its impossible to kill them from hacking.

    perhaps they will finally offer a swap out justr to be rid of the hackers?
     
  4. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

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    I agree with you Bob Haller, I think they will swap them out stating that they cannot be used with the new cards when they will be capable of being used with them, they will just say that to get rid of them so they can end the hacking issues.
     
  5. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Feb 20, 2004
    The problem I still see is thatI will not accept a 501/508/511/522 as a replacement. It is either a 721 or nothing the two main reasons I keep them is the interface and the fact that I can stick a 120 gig drive into them. With out going out of my way to get it to work.
     
  6. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Well since the 721 is discontinued, it will probably have to be a 510. I would hope that Dish does the honorable thing and upgrades them for free (well maybe a 1 year AT60 commit). They could probably make back the money via the $5/month extra fee.

    Dish has to update their encryption, the theft of the signal is getting out of hand. Old recievers eventually have to die. This is a flaw in the DBS business model. You make people buy hardware that one day they are going to have to replace. I expect Dish to make updates eventually to their compression schemes. This could outdate even more boxes.
     
  7. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Feb 20, 2004

    I dont think we will see an change in there compression schemes as they have always been a mpeg2 compress dvb service. I dont think they will change the compression as it would effect all irds. But encyprtion is another thing.

    I refuse to accept any 5x0 box as the ui if awful it just like my 301s. it great for just viewing a guide but not for a dvr box. I think that we all try to get on charlie chat next month and press the issue with charlie.
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    To some of us diehard DP lovers, it would be like a doctor telling you your wife is OK, but he can't keep updating her 'software' and she will have to be replaced with a newer, but less desireable unit -- this after 4-5 years of marriage, and just when you've finally got her functioning smoothly.

    Well, maybe that's not such a good analogy after all. :sure:
     
  9. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    No Nick that sounds about write. DP owners finally get a bleeping break. I am very happy with the latest software I have not seen my dp works so fast also It got rid of the black little dips in service I think they might be power related as it so popular to upgrade the drive in them. Since it easy I move both dps from internal where i was getting short 2 sec black outs to an external hot swap drive bay with its own power supply and it seemed to fix my problem.
     
  10. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Feb 20, 2004
    One more note we DP owners need to stand up for our boxes. they may be old and some times buggy but we still love them.
     
  11. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Actually they can change the compression parameters and it will still be DVB/MPEG-2, but could make more requirements on the decoding hardware. Increasing compression could require more memory in the decoding chipset or more processing speed to keep up. By adding more B frames and stretching the distance between I frames, they could obsolete older chipsets.
     
  12. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Yeah but I just dont see them changing spec and knocking out 100,000 plus older model recivers . Something like that would affect all non opentv compatible recivers with the exception of the 6000, that I just dont see happening. I some popular ird would end up going out the window, 2700,2800,3700 ( all the same darn ird just a different model number ) Not to forget the greyboxes (known for the just huge size) 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000. I would not even start to figure out who might be still holding on to a subbed 1000 or 2200(which the 2200 is a uhf remote reicver if i am not mistaken.) That is a huge large bulk of dish net subscribers even tough I know there are tons of 3800/3900/4700/4900/301s..... The 2700 was a popular model in it later years because of it low price tag and is still being sold in other markets. Bell Expressvu still bundles 2700s with 301s aka 3100 and the 508 aka 5800. but that was getting off track.

    By the way does anyone here have a greybox aka 30/35/40/45/5000 reciver I have heard that dish net still playing around with the firmware I seen reports of people saying that oneday that there sysinfo screen said Dish500 card ready. and then the next it was gone. Because dish came back with another software rollback. I saw this happen on my friens 2700 till they all straighten out and now they have it completely working right.
     
  13. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Ok lets look at it this way, assume:

    1. You can add more B frames and increase compression 8%, enough to add one more LIL channel per your spot channels

    2. Doing so will knock out 300,000 boxes with older chipsets.

    3. Replacing the boxes (assume non PVRs) costs dish $100 each (including tech to come to house and install for you).

    Ok Dish has 50 CONUS transponders, 8% more capacity would be 4 more transponders worth of bandwidth. They would be paying $100 X 300,000 or $30million. This would be extreamly cheap for Dish. This is probably also an inflated cost and number of boxes. They could really UPS out boxes and have customers just switch them out and only send out a tech in a few cases.

    This of course assumes that Dish would come up with a way to increase compression that older boxes could not handle. It may never happen. But, if it did happen, Dish could do it without much problem.
     
  14. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    Mike your numbers are way off.

    out of the 12 million or so customers of dishnet I highly doubt that 11million 700 thousand customers are using a 3800 aka ( upgraded 3900 in sysinfo) or higher.

    So while it may seem like it a cheaper option but it isnt.
     
  15. rvd420

    rvd420 Legend

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    Dish could just let the 7x00's run, keep the nagravision 1 encryption.
    And just update all other receivers that can use nagra type 2 to work on nagra type 2 only.
    This way all IRDs that can work on Nagra type 2 will only work on nagra type 2. And the few hundred thousnad that can't work on nagra type 2 will still run on nagra type 1. (one would think that only a few hundred thousand IRDs that can be hacked, and most of them is legit subs hands that the piracy rate would be "acceptable"
     
  16. Mike123abc

    Mike123abc Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    What are you talking about? If you note in the post I was talking about replacing up to 300,000 older recievers... That would mean that the rest were newer recievers and would not have a problem. There is probably less than 300,000 older recievers. We are talking 1000s/2000s.
     
  17. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    The mpeg decorder on the 2700 is the same as the 2200. I should know I have taken apart enough irds to last me a life time.. So you blanket statement holds no barrings. so now we can now ditch out the 2700 3700 and the 2800.

    The grey boxes uses a different decoder chip but it depends on how much you really plan on compressing the video.

    Besides this is getting offtopic this is about the 7200 with features a mpeg decoder chip more than capable of handling in the specs.

    Sorry This thread is about the DPs .... not if dishnetwork will compress the signal more and make older decoder chips no work.

    So basicly what this boils down to is if

    A. is MS working on making the dp nagra2 compatible.
    b. if they decided to swap out irds will people like my grandmother who uses the webtv function bet both a new dvr and webtv unit.
     
  18. Jacob S

    Jacob S Hall Of Fame

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    I think Dish would still make the old receivers usable for some channels but if they needed additional channels to send them a new receiver in which would probably be a remanufactured receiver or a 111.
     
  19. stonecold

    stonecold Banned User

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    I mean Even the oldest of old recievers have gotten updates that show support for superdish. And the lease on the 105 spot is like 10 years. I think that this ird swap out idea would be a bigger idea in 10 years when they have slowly over time offered say promotions to upgrade customers recivers with a two year comment to at60 or at100 ( i dont know what the new name for it is)
     
  20. Bob Haller

    Bob Haller Banned User

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    Since E didnt update DPs for superdish I think thety are on their way out.

    Hey the replacement box is free with a 2 year commitment and the $5 a month DVR fee.

    Remember some are still paying $10 a month so $5 will be a bargain.

    I sold my DPs but still miss them, nicest box ever owned.
     
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