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Ability to Disable Automatic Updates Removed?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by dennisdt, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. DNSFSS

    DNSFSS AllStar

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    Yes, the E* employees forum *heavy sarcasm*...I'm the only one that posted that is an E* employee.

    I would hate to give the suggestion that you take less than one minute of your precious time to change your update time to make it more convenient for you. That just doesn't seem to be an option for you. You want E* to make things work at a time that'll work for you and who cares about everyone else? Sounds like your alarm clock may be off if you are missing the updates, because if you set it for 3am, that's when it happens DAILY.

    Then again, you'd probably complain when you couldn't go as far ahead in the guide as you used to be able to if you disabled the updates, and then would complain about having to wait the 5 minutes for the guide to download.

    Farewell to you as well, I'm sorry that the logical answers and extra steps that you might have to take to customize your update time is too much for you.
     
  2. jballard

    jballard Mentor

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    I see this update stupidity is affecting other customers too. It's not just us Tivo users who are complaining!
    Fix It!
     
  3. dennisdt

    dennisdt New Member

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    Did you even read my posts or just replied based on the thread title, I'm just going to quote my prior posts here...

    ...Yup, certainly sounds like I'd complain about that, huh?

    I don't know where you got the idea I have a problem with the time it takes to download the data itself. I suggest you re-read (or read for the first time?) my posts because you apparently completely misunderstood what my complaint was.
     
  4. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think everybody should take a few steps back before this thread gets out of hand.

    Let's not turn this into a war session that closes the thread. Thanks.
     
  5. SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    Now you're simply trolling.... or did I "mis-read" you? lol :rolleyes:
     
  6. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    I agree that the Popup needs to be longer on the screen for 625 users. Strange that its so short in comparison to other recievers. I think you should write and complain about that. This should be an easy fix, and should be the same across the board anyways.

    I know you think that updates make your box unstable(hmm, Tivo users creates a new account?) Somebody has issued a update to fix a problem, or upgrade a feature. I know you think that a 2 hour guide is ok, there are plenty of other users, and even Hardware review sites, that think 9 days is barely enough.
    Just how far behind, is Dish supposed to allow users, to be on firmware?

    Maybe its my tech support background, and I know for a fact, that a large percentage of calls were fixed, or couldn't even be worked on until client had upgraded either our software, or the firmware on the device connected to it. This was an across the board, Didn't matter if was CA, HP, SUN, Microsoft, or Novell. Just how many calls, does tech support have to deal with, were the fix was as simple as a reboot that forced a update? I know every call center I setup nowadays, call resolution, is tracked for these kind of things to generate reports.

    Granted Dish could create a superuser feature, that would allow a user to update at there convience, but how does one qualify as a superuser?

    As somebody that works odd hours, and on call for all sorts of people, that have no clue to timezones, or even when work hours really are. I do understand were you are coming from, problem is we are a minority in this world, and we will always have to make adjustments.

    Not trying to say this isn't a issue, its just that, its the mass's vs the few type of thing.
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    And again for some not listening persons here: the daily reboots introduced during developing first Linux based DishDVR [721]. SW coders did not came with any solution to eliminate their own SW problems , but reboots.
    That Linux version still running for weeks/months without any reboot on other computers.
    If you know names who wrote the Dish addintions for the DishLinux flavor - ask them why such reboots need to happen daily ?
    [Also you could ask them why many of those bright guys quit from Dish ?]
     
  8. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    Dennisdt; I think you're making a valid point. I often chase live while I'm working and there are moments when I can only listen to the TV audio. If you are only getting a couple seconds to decide whether the update should continue and lose your buffer or not, that doesn't seem right. Much like warning that appears when a timer is about to fire, it went from a pleasant 5 minutes to an impatient 3 minutes. Obviously for reasons I already mentioned my receiver doesn't have update issues, but I can understand your frustration.
     
  9. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    Now I could get behind an effort to move the warnings back out to 5min's vs the 2 minutes I have now. 522 is still 5min's, as well as parents 311 has a 5 minute warning/countdown.
    Now a poll/movement to restore the 5min warning would get some support.
     
  10. dennisdt

    dennisdt New Member

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    Ultimately I don't really care about the updates themselves (nor any time it takes for them to transfer as some thought), I would prefer greater control over them, but if they want to force them, that's fine. The main thing I'm concerned with is the shutdown itself. Like I said before, I think the best solution would be to allow updates to occur after a certain amount of inactivity rather than at a particular time. They already have an inactivity shut off feature, so it shouldn't be too difficult to add.

    In the mean time one solution I'm thinking about doing is setting up my computer's IR blaster to pulse the Cancel button at the update time.

    Side note, I'm not a Tivo user creating a new account, I think some of the negative comments directed towards me are because some people think I am. I guess we just share the same complaint but for different reasons.
     
  11. DNSFSS

    DNSFSS AllStar

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    Apologies for any misunderstanding. I've just learned to accept that everything with E* changes at the drop of a hat and that most things they "fix" are beyond any control. All I wanted to do was suggest a different way of doing what I thought you were trying to do.
     
  12. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    Now that is a Big +1 idea, and a great resolution to the problem
     
  13. dennisdt

    dennisdt New Member

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    Nov 16, 2009
    Apology completely accepted, and I apologize if I came off hostile at all. Thank you for providing the suggestions you had.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I've got that inactivity shut off disabled ... the receiver will shut itself off at the appointed time. I don't need it off any earlier.

    Folks, don't forget that you set the time. Set it for some time that you don't mind a reset. I have my 622 set for 4:05am ... my 211 is set for 7:00am. I've never bought into the paranoia of "never allow updates". I trust that by the time firmware is sent to my receiver someone else has taken any serious bugs out of it ... other changes are just part of the adventure.

    If you can find bug free TV go subscribe to it. I have not found it yet. Cable outages for no particular reason ... OTA stations that can't get good signal coverage. It is all part of the viewing experience.
     
  15. Jhon69

    Jhon69 Hall Of Fame

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    Oh I agree imagine my shock when after the Dish installer installed my Dish 625 and I found out it has 2-2 hour buffers?.:D
     
  16. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    I too have the inactivity shut off disabled. I don't want the receiver in standby at all.

    That sounds a bit naive. Trusting that by the time the firmware gets sent out that the fine programmers at DISH have taken any serious bugs out of it. I guess updates for the 622 and 211 are only for adding new features. Must be great owning those receivers.

    In that case, I suspect that you would be of a different opinion if you used a 5xx receiver these days. As soon as I can afford to upgrade I will be doing so, but in the meantime we're stuck with buggy 5xx receivers and DISH doesn't seem to be all too concerned that some of the serious and long standing bugs ever get fixed.

    If you were to see firmware updates add useless features and introduce new problems, you might get a little tired of it. IF you see that happen time after time, you might get to the point that you don't want to update the receiver until you absolutely have no other choice. Having the ability to disable automatic updates is a nice feature that should be availble on all receivers, and not just the select few.

    The EKB software upgrade page for the 5xx receivers would look much different if I had the individual firmware versions for when the bugs I found were first introduced.

    You're correct that there are other problems, but I don't see that invalidating DISH problems. I don't understand why some people find it perfectly acceptable to pay over $100 a month and sit on their hands and make excuses. Things like; pink screen lockups, none live guide data wrong, FF and Rew not working properly, Today button failing to take you to Today, cut off descriptions, broken lock icons, Right button shows wrong information at times, out of the blue lockups, progression gauge not always appearing, pause getting stuck, timers that can eat up all available space, switching between search and events lockups, timers that won't fire. Those and much more have been going on for years. It's not paranoia, it's the reality for some of us and I wouldn't mind it if I had less of that part of the viewing experience. :)
     
  17. SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    Virtually every on-line device in my home requires that updates be installed on a mandatory basis. X-box 360 and Play Station 3 are like this. Heck, even individual games require updates be installed before continued usage. In order to allow addressing fixes to specific problems it would seem entirely reasonable that the software be seen on a fixed and common basis.

    I've been a E* for many years with many different receivers and I have never came downstairs to find a newly updated receiver failing to work.
     
  18. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    Can't speak to the XBox. However, the latest PS3 firmware was not mandatory, although most are. Those that are mandatory cripple various aspects of the PS3 unnecessarily until updated. The recent update, for example that redesigned the XMB, has angered many people. Heck, you can't even log into your PSN account without swallowing the pill. Some folks have reported that their PS3 was bricked after updating. The latest update to Home has cause problems and angered many. The lack of any communication from the team only adding fuel to the firestorm. Or, that games that weren't crashing before with the earlier firmware, now crash. Going so far as to take their updated Slims back to the store of purchase and exchanging it for one with an older firmware version and then not updating the replacement, which results in the game now working again. The PS3 isn't a good example of updates.

    Since emergency fixes aren't released, nor are reverts, your stuck. Although you do have one option with the PS3 that you don't have with a DISH receiver, I'm told that you can kludge back to an earlier version.

    Both my receiver and TV have firmware updating capabilities. Imagine coming home and powering up the TV only to find that it's locked up due to a poorly written and mandatory update. Or, pressing a button on the remote too many times causes the TV to lockup. If there was an option, once I got a relatively stable version, I'd disable updates. I could careless what new bells and whistles were added in future updates.

    Just because something can be updated with something newer doesn't mean you should. I wouldn't update the BIOS on a fully functioning motherboard anymore then I should have to update the firmware on any other device that I deem working good, unless given no choice or I knew that the update fixed a particular problem. True with most drivers. Newer is not always better.

    The fact remains that the 5xx receivers have many problems that are not being addressed with updates.

    Back to the topic; I don't think the solution should be to set up a computer to pulse the cancel button repeatedly. The option to disable updates should be made available on all receivers.

    Why include the option to disable updates on a receiver that, if anything, needs updating badly and remove the option on receivers that, supposedly, don't need them?
     
  19. SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    I had two 508 receivers years ago. They were long ago hauled to the dump for recycling. I can't believe that Dish is still issuing updates for thos receivers.

    I get the impression that you believe that you are in a position to know the contents/problems addressed in a given update. I doubt it. :nono2:
     
  20. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    They haven't issued an update in about a year. Never the less, millions are still used by DISH.

    No, I'm in the unfortunate position of knowing which problems haven't been addressed in a given update.
     

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