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Abused Iraqi prisoner photos spark world outrage

Discussion in 'The OT' started by John Corn, May 1, 2004.

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  1. May 6, 2004 #41 of 192
    keng52

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    I don't believe You live in Atlanta because Atlanta is a liberal city and will vote Kerry . And whoever believes The Atlanta Constitution is a conservative paper doesn't have a clue.
     
  2. May 6, 2004 #42 of 192
    Danny R

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    Inside the perimeter is a liberal environment. However outside the perimeter the Atlanta Metropolitan Area is generally conservative. North Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, Douglas, Fayette and other border counties are republican sanctuaries.

    I think Richard was being sarcastic about calling the AJC conservative, thus the reason he put the word in quotes. I'd consider the AJC a bit left of center myself, but not truly a liberal paper. Its opinion page is a mix of conservative and liberal voices, and it carries national conservatives as well as liberals too.

    If you want a truly liberal Atlanta paper, pick up Creative Loafing. Its a good read in any case, because CL trashes the AJC in quality of writing and investigative reporting hands down.

    Speaking of CL, here is an article on just what Happy was describing. And this incident took place in Inman Park, not out in Douglasville where one might expect it to occur.

    http://www.atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2003-04-02/fishwrapper.html
     
  3. May 6, 2004 #43 of 192
    lee635

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    "Mr. Bush reiterated his strong support for Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, although the President was reportedly furious that he only learned about the extent of prisoner mistreatment from a CBS report last week.

    Mr. Klinestiver told the paper that Mr. Bush, who did not serve in Vietnam, “doesn't know what these guys are going through” in Iraq.

    "How can you make decisions for our military unless you've served yourself?," he asked. "

    news
     
  4. May 6, 2004 #44 of 192
    lee635

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    "The Mirror, which opposed the war in Iraq, published pictures last week apparently showing British soldiers urinating on a hooded prisoner and beating him with a rifle butt."

    Wow, so are you saying that even worse abuse than the above has been prepetrated under US and British control, and with a US Executive Order signed by President Bush that eliminates all possibility of penalties for non-military perpetrators? This is a big story.
     
  5. May 6, 2004 #45 of 192
    HappyGoLucky

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    Yet if some other country did likewise to our soldiers these same idiots would be howling for nuclear retaliation. Hypocrites, every one of them.
     
  6. May 6, 2004 #46 of 192
    HappyGoLucky

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    It has happened out here in Douglasville, too, it just hasn't garnered much attention. Especially since things like that are preferred kept hush-hush as much as possible in these parts. Sort of like the lynchings of times past. There are few records of the lynchings, yet it is estimated that many hundreds of blacks and sympathetic whites were murdered.

    The Foxnews, Newsmax, Coulter, Hannity, Boortz, etc. are simply the propaganda machine for the fascist regime. Do a google on the Bush "free speech zones" for some real interesting info. Whenever Bush speaks somewhere, the SS (aka Secret Service) sets up these "free speech zones" miles away where anyone who is NOT a Bush supporter is sent to protest or hold their signs, etc. The only ones allowed close are those who support Bush. Anyone in the vicinity who demonstrates anti-Bush sentiment in any way is quickly handcuffed and led away for "questioning". This has happened all over the country, yet you rarely see anything about it in the mainstream media. Wonder why?
     
  7. May 6, 2004 #47 of 192
    HappyGoLucky

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    Now it is coming out that the Internation Red Cross alerted the US Military months ago about the abuse at the prisons, but nothing was done about it. Rumsfield is trying to say he never got any information about it until now. That is rather disturbing. If Rumsfield is lying (which is very probable considering what we know now), it is more evidence of the corruption in this administration. If Rumsfield is not lying, it shows his extreme incompetence in a brighter light than what the poor planning has already shown.

    The Bush administration doesn't need to be defeated in November, they need to be prosecuted! Every last one of them, starting with Bush himself. Of course that will never happen, but the sooner this entire crew is driven from power the better. Some good old fumigation of the Capital to make sure every last creepy bug and varmit is gone.
     
  8. May 10, 2004 #48 of 192
    lee635

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    Your tax dollars at work.

    Where's all the outrage over this wasteful government program? Is this what I pay taxes for?

    The latest is a set of pics that show a naked and tied up Iraqi "detainee" and a US soldier/contractor/whatever with a ferocious dog and the next pic shows the Iraqi bleeding, obviously bitten by the dog. Someone here posted a Newsmax article and quoted that the worst abuses were being done by Iraqis -- WOW, so there's still worse stuff than this that we haven't seen yet? When will the pics of the Iraqi abusers come out? I can't imagine what could be worse or more cowardly than sicking a vicious dog on a naked, restrained man?
     
  9. May 11, 2004 #49 of 192
    jonstad

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    Again, this begs the question, why was newsmax compelled to report this NBC story. And why were you compelled to link to it here? Unless newsmax quotes every NBC story verbatim, I assume it was to make a point. That point being Iraqis hired by US to abuse prisoners somehow justifies or mitigates abuse by US. That's the implication I take away anyhow. If there's another from you OR newsmax, I'd be happy to listen.
     
  10. May 11, 2004 #50 of 192
    jonstad

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    Wow! Today Bush said Rumsfield was doing a "superb job" and Cheney called him "the best Defense Secretary we've ever had". Are these guys from the same planet as the rest of us?

    Among other things, Rumsfield, the arrogant pr!ck, thought Afganistan could be taken by the Keystone Kops Northern Alliance with some satellite photos and whispered suggestions. The resulting delay may have probably cost us our best shot at Osama and Mullah Omar. And it should have been a clue for upcoming adventures that the "plan" for post-war Afganistan consisted pretty much of securing Kabul and leaving to rest for warlords to grow poppies in. Then he grossly underestimated the troops needed to secure a post-war Iraq, so much so that it appears we have not even gotten to the "post-war" part yet. Despite repeated assurances that everything was hunky dory and going to "plan", tours of duty have been extended several times(not good for morale) and in less then two months we're supposed to "turn over" sovereignty to the locals.:lol: Of course we don't quite know yet how that's going to happen nor who these "locals" are.

    And now this latest. The Red Cross has been raising multiple red flags for over a year now. No later then January, Rummy knew something was rotten in the state of Iraqi prisons yet he seemed to feel it necessary to pass very little if anything along to his superiors(although sometimes I wonder who exactly ARE the "superiors" in this administration).

    I caught much of his Congressional testimony last week and I thought his whole attitude and demeanor were insulting and disgusting, and later clips did nothing to dissuage my opinion. He seemed rather bothered he had to be there at all, like it was just an inconvenient formality he was being forced to participate in. He often seemed bored and kept fiddling with and looking at his watch like a kid waiting for detention to end. At one point he took the watch off, looking at it like he was trying to figure out how it worked.:scratch: His "Golly, gee whiz, how did this happen?" responses were condescending to the committees at best and outright insulting at worst. As bad as this was,the worst was that he seemed much more concerned about how this had become public("illegally"), whining about digital cameras, DVDs, the internet, and of course, the damned media instead of how and why it happened in the first place. For that, he seemed to have no clue.

    His excuse for the secrecy was "not to jeopardize" court martial prosecutions or the rights of the accused. Ha!:rotfl: He'd like nothing better then to let the guilty off on some technicality so this could all be swept under the rug. And it appears for the brass involved(including Rummy), everything may already be under the rug. After all, it was only a few isolated incidents by a few isolated, misguided(or better for Rummy, unguided;)) individuals with thousands of pictures and video at 11 plus reports of very similar incidents in multiple locations in Iraq, Afganistan and Guantanamo. And that's just for starters!

    The only thing that comes close to sickening me as much as the images themselves is that they took place under the auspices of MY country and by MY countrymen(and women:nono: ).

    BTW, reports are that Dubba, that other arrogant pr!ck, was supposed to offer his mea culpa directly to the Arab world on his appearances last week on Arab TV. Apparently he couldn't bring himself to do that though. It was less demeaning, and more cowardly, to offer up his "I'm sorrys" in a brief Rose Garden photo-op. Now there's integrity for ya!
    :rant:
     
  11. May 11, 2004 #51 of 192
    FritzM

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    A little irony here, about being the best Defense Secretary, remember who was GHWB #41's Defense Secretary? So Rummy is better than Dick was?
     
  12. May 11, 2004 #52 of 192
    jonstad

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    This administration seems to have a maniacal sense of brotherhood in its inner circle not unlike mafia or gang mentality wherein criticism may not be leveled at each other and no wrong can be attributed to members. Maybe it's the Skull and Bones mentality? Not everyone in the administration is in this inner circle though. It appears Colin Powell certainly isn't. And also why Cheney described Richard Clarke, the national security advisor for counter-terrorism, as "out of the loop". He was NOT part of this inner circle and therefore could not be fully trusted and his opinions were suspect, especially if they appeared to conflict with closely held beliefs of this inner circle.

    Loyalty is fine. But the devotion and refusal to admit mistakes(or even to discuss the possiblity of error) among this inner circle borders on fanatacism.
     
  13. May 11, 2004 #53 of 192
    Bogy

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    For one thing, nobody who does not take part in the officially sanctioned Bible Study groups, outside of Karl Rove, is generally accepted as an insider. This has meant that Jews and non-evangelical Christians have not been a part of the administration for long. I've said before, part of what scares me about this administration is the theology demonstrated that Bush has been called by God to be president, and therefore nothing he does can be a mistake. He truly seems to believe that he has made no mistakes. When a reporter asks him what mistakes he might have made or would do differently, he truly can't conceive that there have been any mistakes. Even people like Abraham, Moses, Peter and Paul questioned themselves occasionally.
     
  14. May 11, 2004 #54 of 192
    Timco

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    Are you exaggerating to make a point or serious?
     
  15. May 11, 2004 #55 of 192
    Bogy

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    I'm being perfectly serious. This has been reported by not only by former members of the administration for part of the reason they left, but also by people with access to the "inner circle" like Woodward in his recent book.
     
  16. May 11, 2004 #56 of 192
    Strong

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    I'm sure others besides myself sees the irony in that.

    We are told by a bunch of religious zealots that we must fight to rid the world of religious zealots! :confused:
     
  17. May 11, 2004 #57 of 192
    Timco

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    Truly disturbing.
     
  18. May 11, 2004 #58 of 192
    Bogy

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    I am all in favor of Bible study. I lead them all the time. But in the studies I lead I emphasize that there is always something more to learn, that we need to continually ask questions and gain new understandings. From statements by those with knowledge about the studies taking place in the WH, and statements that Bush makes in speeches, that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

    I am all in favor of Bible study and using it for personal growth and in applying to the work setting. But in a secular/work setting, when those involved are supposed to be representing a very diverse population, it is troubling to me that power is limited to those who believe in a very narrowly defined way, excluding those with different faith perspectives.
     
  19. May 11, 2004 #59 of 192
    Timco

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    Agreed. I always thought the point of Bible study was to study and learn with the assumption that you were not all knowing. To just reinforce your opinions and beliefs with selected passages is not Bible study. I believe that GW is doing the same thing with the people who surround him. They just reinforce his opinions and beliefs, hence, our ongoing problems in Iraq.
     
  20. May 11, 2004 #60 of 192
    Danny R

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    You would think with all that bible study, you'd know it by now. ;)

    To put things in perspective... what would you think of someone who had weekly meetings delving into the most minute nuances of War and Peace, and had done so ever since they were a child.

    *grin*
     
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