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All Directv HD is HD-Lite??

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by sigma1914, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    On a cable forum the HD-Lite topic came up & one cable lover stated:
    "Currently, Dish still has a few HD-Lite channels. ALL HD on DirecTV is HD-Lite either through 1080x1440 elliptical encoding or MPEG4 compression."

    Is this guy right or way off?
     
  2. drded

    drded Godfather

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    Elliptical encoding? Nice use of a fancy term that has little to do with HD. If this guy thinks MPEG4 is HD-Lite he is obviously demonstrating his complete ignorance of the subject.

    Dave
     
  3. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Wonder what he will say when cable (which is going to do it) goes to MPEG4.
     
  4. bhelton71

    bhelton71 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '09

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    I googled "Elliptical encoding" and came up with magnetic resonance imaging - so is that the correct usage ? Does it mean something else ?

    Back on topic - if it is HD-Lite - HD-Lite looks fine to me. Somehow I doubt it is though.
     
  5. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Digital by it's nature is compressed.
    MPEG-2 uses an older algorithm while MPEG-4 is a newer algorithm that is able to work with smaller file sizes.

    Does DirecTV, Dishnetwork, AND cable have some over compressed channels? YES.
    Do the newer MPEG-4 channels look good? To me...yes.
     
  6. Heem(JimmyG)

    Heem(JimmyG) Mentor

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    Not sure about "HD Lite", I was under the impression that anything under full 1080P is "lite". I just changed over to D* about 4 days ago and I can pass on that most but not all of my HD channels thru D* are better than our old cable. Its just a crisper picture.

    TV predictions posted an article a few months back that the head guy at "Dish" called the HD channels at D* "lite" to battle the amount of channels D* has vs dish

    Lite or not the picture looks great
     
  7. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Since there is zero 1080p broadcasting, how can you compare broadcast to a bluray/HD-DVD?
    This isn't even apples to oranges.
     
  8. kstefanec

    kstefanec AllStar

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    Couple of weeks ago, I read that the Japanese are working on the NEW HD, 4x's the resolution of 1080, so about 4000 something. So when that comes out, is a 1080p Blue-ray, HD-Lite?

    If the picture looks good, I ain't complaining.
     
  9. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Technically all transmitted HD is "HD lite". All of it is compressed including live over the air broadcasts. The question then becomes what amount of compression is acceptable before you are able to notice any of the effects of compression.

    MPEG4 is able to compress more than MPEG2 while delivering the same or better quality of picture.

    While some of DirecTV's MPEG2 HD channels and broadcasts were "bit starved" to the point of being noticeable or objectionable, so far, in it's relatively short lifespan, MPEG4 appears to be doing much better, and providing much higher picture quality.

    If it is "HD lite", it's okay by me. I think my HD pictures are fantastic.

    Carl
     
  10. bhelton71

    bhelton71 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '09

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    I thought I read the BBC is now 1080p. I think it is H264 with AC3 ( I downloaded the TS they released for testing last year - don't remember the framerate though I think it was 50fps). *If* DirecTV (or anyone for that matter) wanted to switch to the same type of video - would it be a whole new infrastructure (encoders, receivers, etc.) or is the existing stuff software upgradeable ?
     
  11. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    None of the current HR2* series systems, can output a 1080p signal...

    So it would require new hardware (at a minimum), on the home consumer side of the equation.


    To answer the OP's question.

    What is the exact definition of HD-Lite...
    It is a fairly vague internet definition ?

    Some people say it is HD Lite if it is not one of the approved ATSC resolutions.... even if the images falls "between" two of the approved ATSC

    Some people say it is HD Lite if it is just compressed more then they like it to be. (since all HD we see in our homes is compressed, including optical based medias).

    some people say it is HD Lite... when they are comparing it to something else, with no other basis.

    Others say HD Lite... just because they don't know any better.

    So since there is no exact definition of HD-Lite... there is no real answer to your question.

    The MPEG-4 versions we get of the channels are un-altered.
    They are at the same resolution that are received from their content providers.

    Compression levels are what they are, and can account for some of the image quality issues.

    Others... Some are received already in a compressed degraded state (some of the HD Locals for example, by over compressed broadcasters)... and the conversion to MPEG-4... can only be as good as it source.

    Some HD content... is a pure as it can get via current technology standards from content provider to DirecTV... and then compressed as efficiently as possible via DirecTV to mpeg-4 and sent to us.

    So my recommendation to the OP...
    Redirect that poster on the cable-forum over here...
    So he/she can explain how they feel DirecTV is HD-Lite is on all channels.
     
  12. Cable Lover

    Cable Lover Legend

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    What cable fourm were you on? :eek:
     
  13. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Thanks everyone. As usual, I learned A LOT here.
     
  14. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    LMAO, I still have cable for my internet...until/if Fios EVER gets here.
     
  15. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I've heard of ellipitical curve encryption. Is that what ellipitical encoding is based on?

    Mike
     
  16. Grydlok

    Grydlok Icon

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    If that was comcastRick I would have even chuckled.
     
  17. AZ_Engineer

    AZ_Engineer Mentor

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    I assume the MPEG 4 supports various compression levels. I understand that uncompressed HD is 19.2M bits/sec. Can 2M bits/sec at 720p or 1080i be still called HD?

    I realize that MPEG4 enables greater compression at the same image quality as MPEG2. But I also hear that the broadcasters and carriers can really compress a ton. With some DVD players you can monitor the bit rate realtime. Wish the D-boxes would let us do that :lol:
     
  18. longrider

    longrider Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    19.2 is the ATSC channel standard but that is already compressed. In the TV studio it runs about 45Mbps and true raw, uncompressed HD is way above that.
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "Uncompressed HD" would be the HDMI @ 1.4 Gb/s

    AZ_Engineer:
    SD VOD seems to becoming at about 3 Mb/s
     
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