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Alternative Eastern Arc Setup

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by BobS, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. BobS

    BobS Legend

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    Jun 23, 2006
    I am an “Eastern Arc” customer. I get very good signal strength during sunny weather but the slightest hint of rain within 100 miles causes various levels of outages (ok, I exaggerate – but not much). I was thinking of adding a large round dish to point at 61.5 since that is, most often, the problem child and hosts the majority of the programming I watch. Is it possible to hook a 30” round dish into the extra port on a 1000.4 for 61.5. If so, how do I determine the new AzElSk to optimize 72.7 and 77?
     
  2. thomasjk

    thomasjk Legend

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    You probably need to have the Dish alignment checked. What are the signal strengths for each satellite?
     
  3. boba

    boba Hall Of Fame

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    Also bear in mind 61.5 is going to be replaced hopefully this fall so signal strength should increase. Start with a repeak.
     
  4. BobS

    BobS Legend

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    (for tp19)
    Clear Skies

    61.5 - 22-30, rarely up to 43
    72.7 - 46 or better
    77.0 - 47 or better

    Light Rain (This is the problem area.)

    61.5 - 0-15
    72.7 - 38 or better
    77.0 - 38 or better

    Heavy Rain (I don't expect anything in this case.)

    61.5 - 0
    72.7 - 0-20
    77.0 - 0-19

    Of course, it could be the weather patterns are such that 61.5 is impacted more. In any case, I thought a dedicated (relatively large) dish optimized for 61.5 would help alleviate at least the marginal cases.
     
  5. thomasjk

    thomasjk Legend

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    You signals are way too low on 61.5. Call Dish and have the realign the Dish.
     
  6. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    Or, do it yourself and save the service call fee (up to $99).
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Fall? More like Summer and at this point "within two weeks" if the schedule holds.

    Look for your best signal on a spotbeam from E12 ... 61.5 TP 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15 are spots. In my installation the strongest (where my locals are) is around 77. That is what I'd like to see out of E15. I'm currently getting 40s of the E3/E6 transponders at 61.5 (and could probably use a repeak myself).



    As far as Bob's problems - a repeak might help but also look for trees. They have a tendency to grow and with dishes like the 1000.4 it isn't always obvious what is in the way of the satellite signal. I ended up getting aiming information off of Dishpointer.com and setting up a camera with the azimuth/elevation needed - just to see what was in the way.

    Then I trimmed:
    [​IMG]

    If you do add a bigger dish for 61.5 (which I would not do until after E15 was in use in a couple of weeks and only after checking the aim) you can use the same settings for your 1000.4 dish as you're using today. Peak it as best you can between 72.7 and 77 and leave it set. Of course, you probably don't need 77 unless your locals are on it.
     
  8. jarvantgroup

    jarvantgroup Icon

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    Stand behind your dish and look out to the left hand side of the LNB/lens. The first signal you will hit is 77, then 72, then 61.5. Trees growing into the line-of-sight will affect 61.5 first, then the others. The closer the trees grow towards the LNB/lens, the signal will be affected on 61.5 first.
     
  9. rrn

    rrn New Member

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    Jul 24, 2010
    i agree signal is to low. a 1000.4 is does have a fourth inport for a wing dish. also if you can get a 1000.2 for a western arc 110,119, and 129. they are not spred out on the horizon so much and bring in a much srtonger signal. you will still get all your high def.
     
  10. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    Except his HD locals, most likely.
     
  11. BobS

    BobS Legend

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    Jun 23, 2006
    Thanks to everybody for the helpful replies. I will respond to each in order:

    thomasjk You probably need to have the Dish alignment checked. What are the signal strengths for each satellite?

    boba Also bear in mind 61.5 is going to be replaced hopefully this fall so signal strength should increase. Start with a repeak.
    thomasjk You signals are way too low on 61.5. Call Dish and have the realign the Dish.

    Jim5506 Or, do it yourself and save the service call fee (up to $99).


    I have realigned three times. 61.5 improves slightly but 72.7 and 77.0 go into the dumpster. I have successfully pointed many different configurations and satellites. Perhaps a Dish contractor could do better (I am not so sure) but at this point I don’t want to pay to find out. I checked again today (sunny, few clouds).

    61.5 – ranged from 25 (tp10) to 77 (tp05-sb), mostly 25-35
    72.7 – ranged from 39 (tp20) to 50 (multiple tp), most 45+
    77.0 – ranged from 40 (tp29) to 53 (multiple tp), most 45+

    These 61.5 transponders had a SS of 0: 1, 6, 15, 16, 17, 18,26 & 32

    The following transponders don’t even appear:
    72.7 – 2, 3, 8, 10, 12, 14, 18, 20, 24, 26, & 30
    77.0 – 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 26, 27, &31

    I’m sure the explanation is obvious but I need somebody to provide it.


    James Long Fall? More like Summer and at this point "within two weeks" if the schedule holds. Look for your best signal on a spotbeam from E12 ... 61.5 TP 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15 are spots. In my installation the strongest (where my locals are) is around 77. That is what I'd like to see out of E15. I'm currently getting 40s of the E3/E6 transponders at 61.5 (and could probably use a repeak myself).

    As far as Bob's problems - a repeak might help but also look for trees. They have a tendency to grow and with dishes like the 1000.4 it isn't always obvious what is in the way of the satellite signal. I ended up getting aiming information off of Dishpointer.com and setting up a camera with the azimuth/elevation needed - just to see what was in the way .If you do add a bigger dish for 61.5 (which I would not do until after E15 was in use in a couple of weeks and only after checking the aim) you can use the same settings for your 1000.4 dish as you're using today. Peak it as best you can between 72.7 and 77 and leave it set. Of course, you probably don't need 77 unless your locals are on it.

    jarvantgroup Stand behind your dish and look out to the left hand side of the LNB/lens. The first signal you will hit is 77, then 72, then 61.5. Trees growing into the line-of-sight will affect 61.5 first, then the others. The closer the trees grow towards the LNB/lens, the signal will be affected on 61.5 first.


    I will wait and try again. I thought I could optimize 72.7 and 77.0 but since the signals are good why bother? The question no is what size dish should I use for 61.5? Bigger is better but I’d rather have the smallest possible. I guess I will just start with 18” and work up to 30”, if necessary. Except for tp05, no spotbeams appear for 61.5 (at least the screen doesn’t say so).

    There are no obstacles for any of the Eastern Arc satellites. It is really a rain fade issue.


    RasputinAXP Except his HD locals, most likely.

    You are correct, my locals are on 61.5. Most are designated "HD" but a couple or not. See my new post for details.

    rrn i agree signal is to low. a 1000.4 is does have a fourth inport for a wing dish. also if you can get a 1000.2 for a western arc 110,119, and 129. they are not spred out on the horizon so much and bring in a much srtonger signal. you will still get all your high def.

    I have LOS issues with the Western Arc, so that is not an option. Can you really tune in both arcs simultaneously (without E*’s permission)?
     
  12. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    You should be able to, but it really doesn't get you anything unless you have locals on one arc and not the other - Miami FL is one example - There have been some threads where these guys actually can see 61.5 and 72 better than 129, but Miami locals (both SD and HD) are on 110/119 only at this time. These guys were advised to that 2 Dish 500s may be their best answer, using a DPP44 switch (or maybe a 61.5 dish, a 72.7 dish, and a dish500 for 110/119).

    Dish's official position will be that they prefer all subs to use one Arc or the other (Eastern being 61.5, 72.7, and 77 - Western is 110,119, and 129) with no split arc setups.

    You're also going to see some history where some posters had 110/119 and 61.5 - legacy from before Dish started putting HD nationals on 72.7. Some of these were also in a tough spot about locals one arc and wanting HD from the other. Hitting 129 will be tough in some locations (Northeast corridor anyone ?), just like 61.5 is tough from the west coast (11 degree elevation ?)

    There are also locations where you can get HD locals from either Arc (Raleigh fits here) - so installs can be based on what works best at the location.
     
  13. BobS

    BobS Legend

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    Jun 23, 2006
    Thanks for the clarification. Can this be generalized to the rule: If you can see a Dish satellite and have the proper equipment, you can receive any programming (to which you subscribe) from any satellite from which it is available?
     
  14. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    Generally - but Eastern Arc is strictly MPEG4 only for user equipment. Any "MPEG2 only" equipment will have to be pointed at 110/119 only. If you have both types of receivers, you could well end up with both Eastern Arc and 110/119 dishes.
     
  15. rrn

    rrn New Member

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    Jul 24, 2010
    however a 1000.2 gets 110/119/129 wich does is the hd alt. for nlos on a eastern arc. also 129 is closer to 110/119 than 61.5 to 72.5/77 and brings in a stronger signal.
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It doesn't help if your HD locals are eastern arc but for non local channels either complete arc is best.

    Not really. 129 is 10 degrees away from 119 and 19 away from 110. 61.5 is 9.2 degrees away from 72.7 and 13.5 degrees away from 77. The arc of eastern arc is smaller. Much smaller if your locals are not on 77 (as 77 is currently needed only for locals). Unless you have a western arc setup you need both 61.5 and 72.7 from the eastern arc to get all your channels (plus whatever location your HD locals are on, if not 61.5).

    The signal from 61.5 is low at the moment but that will change in less than two weeks. Be patient.
     
  17. BobS

    BobS Legend

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    Jun 23, 2006
    I don't think that simply calculating the difference in the orbital slots will tell you how wide the arc is for you (unless you are at the center of the earth). Nobody (in the U.S. anyway) uses an azimuth of 61.5 to see the satellite at 61.5. You would have to calculate the difference in the azimuths from each endpoint at your location. For instance in Miami - 61.5 has AZ142.1 and 77.0 has AZ172.6 or a difference of 30.5 degrees. 110 has AZ232.7 and 129 has AZ249.1 or a difference of 16.4 degrees. I would surmise that the further west you go the closer the values come to the "expected" and then probably diverge again with WA showing a bigger difference. Of course at that latitude the elevations would be pretty high, a compensating factor when using a multi-LNB setup. Anybody know where the 1000.2 and 1000.4 heads are optimized for? If my calculations are incorrect, please tell me gently.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    No, but the difference should still scale. It would be different depending on where one starts. Do the math for more locations and don't forget the skew. Just because the arc is twisted sideways doesn't mean there isn't an arc.
     

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