1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AM21 problem

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Church AV Guy, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    5,957
    54
    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    That is most odd...the more I think about it, it doesn't match what I was thinking of, especially the error code.
     
  2. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,679
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    "I'm winging it here", but this topic has been around for a long time and the last thread questioned why not have more sub channels.
    The general reply was the guide data size.
    I sort of questioned why as if the stream had more, and so was simply longer, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for all the receivers to wait a bit longer between updates, right?
    "I got word" that there was a finite size on the upload end.
    It seems this may have been improved, as I know I'm seeing more sub channels than I've seen before.
    Not sure if there is a change in the software to pars the longer/increased guide data, or what, but it does look like there are changes in work.
     
  3. mrphil

    mrphil Cool Member

    55
    0
    Dec 11, 2011
    I've found just what I was looking for.....had the correct key (and thought) all along!:lol:
     
  4. Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

    522
    7
    Jul 9, 2007
    My Zip code is 93555. I get all of the channels in the Los Angeles area.
     
  5. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

    7,138
    171
    Nov 16, 2005
    Los...
    Just checked some of the secondary sub-channels here in the L.A. market on my brother's R22 with an AM21 and they're all receiving fine.

    It must be erroneous PSIP mapping data for our market "currently" cycling in the stream.

    However, I don't dare reset the OTA channels and rerun the setup on my brother's box to download the current off-air channel set to see.

    As he would absolutely kill me if I lost the secondary OTA subs on his box over testing this issue. :D
     
  6. mrphil

    mrphil Cool Member

    55
    0
    Dec 11, 2011
    I guess you do get all the channels! I fall between 2 DMA's and between them, receive 31! It is nice, however, to have an additional FOX & CBS in another DMA which I don't get over D* when they're showing different football games, etc.....

    Based upon your ZIP, I reset my AM21 settings and did an initial setup with 93555. That brought in 87 possible channels. Luckily, one of those matched an RF channel (41) KLCS - Virtual Ch's 58.1, 58.2, 58.3 & 58.4 with one I have available here....and that was WICD...15.1 & 15.2. When I brought up the guide for KLCS and went to virtual channel 58.1 & 58.2, both worked fine..(picked up 15.1 and 15.2 in my area...) so the mappings should work for you as well. All channels appeared in the guide. I never realized all the channels LA has! We have at the most 3 sub channels on stations around here...never saw x.6 x.7 x.10! Why do you even need sat??:lol:

    I reset the AM21 settings and tried the setup again with 93555, only to find in the edit channels....not all of them appeared, even though the system info showed there were 87 OTA channels available.

    When I reset my AM21 to go back to both of my markets, once again, not all the channels showed up I knew should, so I went through the initial OTA antenna setup again without resetting the AM21 and the 2nd time was a charm. I recall having to do this 2 or 3 times when I first got it a year or two ago. You might try the same procedure. There's an obvious issue with the software and trying to set it up 2 or 3 times is the only way I know to get it working. I guess persistence pays......sometimes!
     
  7. Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

    522
    7
    Jul 9, 2007
    Okay, I was told some information that might be incorrect and could well account for the problem I am having.

    I live in Zip 93555, which is pretty far north of LA. The Indian Wells Valley is, if noting else, a REAL VALLEY. All four directions are mountains, and I am in a bowl--in the bottom. The television we get over the air, is brought in by a volunteer organization that operates repeaters from the top of a mountain to the south, resending the signals into the valley.

    I was told that they didn't do anything to the signals, they get receive them, and then retransmit them. This weekend I cornered a technical guy who said that he THOUGHT that it might not be that simple. This could account for the problem.

    I would still like to see if anyone in zip 93555 can get any of the sub channels. It also does not explain the signal meter working, unless it isn't indicating what I THINK it's indicating. As I said, my televisions, and my Magnavox 515 DVD recorder see that channels just fine, but they have scanning capability.

    As a workaround, I am using my 515 as a DVR, and getting the guide data from DirecTV. I just program the recording information into the DVD recorder. It has worked properly so far!:D

    I understand that one of the newer DirecTV satellite receivers gets over-the-air channels, and DOES have scanning capability. Maybe I should replace one of my HR21/HR22's with one of those.
     
  8. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,679
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    Repeater can change frequencies. My TV picks up a couple and shows them as different channels than the source uses.
    It would still be helpful to find out what this error code means. Have you called tech support?

    As for your receiver displaying levels.
    They are what it's picking up and not "what it thinks" you should get.

    Going with the HR34 which scans with the AM21, doesn't sound like it will do what you want.
    I have one. If the channel it picks up isn't in the guide data, then you can tune to it, can pause live TV, but can't record, or setup a recording.

    Right now a have a few sub channels listed twice in my guide. The ones without guide data can't record, yet the same ones with guide data can.
     
  9. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

    5,085
    88
    Aug 9, 2006
    yes, your diagnosis is along the right lines. See http://www.iwvtvbooster.org/ for info on your local repeater system.
    My original guess was that the people operating the system are either not supplying Tribune (who create the guide for DirecTV) or DirecTV itself with the correct PSIP data for the subchannels, or are not transmitting the correct PSIP.
    If the primary channel (say 2-1) is coming in at a certain signal strength, then all the subchannels for that primary channel will show the same signal strength because they are all being delivered on the same frequency - there's no such thing as "signal strength" for a subchannel. So if 2-1 has good signal strength, 2-2, 2-3 and so on will show the same signal strength.

    But my second idea is that the repeater might not be transmitting the -2, -3 subchannels at all! On the link I posted above, which is supposedly updated to 5-21-2012, there's no mention of any subchannels. If the subchannels were not being repeated, you would see signal strength but of course the subchannel would not come in at all.
    If that's the case, it's the guide which is incorrect, because the subchannels should not be listed for your zip code.

    Contacting the repeater system managers should clear this up.....
     
  10. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,679
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    I don't know enough about repeats, "but" wouldn't they also pass the sub-channels, as they're part of the same signal that the tuner is measuring?
     
  11. mrphil

    mrphil Cool Member

    55
    0
    Dec 11, 2011
    I should have known to question how he was receiving locals reliably considering how far he is from LA. I 'assumed' (yes...I know...) he was living in/on a mountainous region...and should have verified....and will the next time something doesn't seem quite right.

    That link you provided is excellent and basically answers many questions. I bet it would take some doing to get those custom channels/listings added, however!
     
  12. Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Godfather

    522
    7
    Jul 9, 2007
    I figured this out eventually. It isn't seeing the sub channel specifically on the signal strength meter. I get THAT now at least.
    As I said in my original post, I get the sub channels (all of them) on my televisions, and on my DVD recorder, just not on the AM21. The sub channels do come in, but I wonder if the encoding is being changed somehow. I don't know how just yet, but I'm working on finding out.

    They pass the sub channels, but are they passing them without some changes that make the AM21 reject them.

    The on screen message reads:

    Searching for signal on the off-air tuner....(792)

    Oh, and I think I forgot to say THANKS! to everyone who has been posting suggestions.
     
  13. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

    5,085
    88
    Aug 9, 2006
    So if the channels are coming in on the TV, then it's most likely the repeater management have not given the correct channel mapping information to Tribune, who produce the guide.
    We've seen this problem before. The guide probably has the channel mappings of the original subchannels before the repeater remaps them.
     
  14. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,679
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    "OK" 792 is the OTA version of 771, which I did just check.
     
  15. mrphil

    mrphil Cool Member

    55
    0
    Dec 11, 2011
    Regarding the 792...that's your AM21 trying to lock in on weak, or in your case, a non-existent RF signal.

    I don't know how many households or what size of area the Indian Wells Valley TV Booster system serves, but since they have a board, regular meetings, etc., perhaps you could contact someone there regarding your issue. A board, as such, might have better luck in getting the listings fixed for your particular area/situation.
     
  16. wahooq

    wahooq DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    931
    1
    Oct 19, 2011
    Tulsa, OK
    792 is basically 771 but on the AM21 itself...I have an am21 on my hr34 and cannot get any of the subchanels that are available...i had to move my digital antenna and come straight into my TV to see the channels not in DTV's guide of subchannels...
     
  17. bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

    8,473
    92
    Jun 29, 2006
    Bainbridge...
    In my case, I know the repeater is transmitting the subchannels since they are viewable on either my TV or on my Mac which has an EyeTV tuner. Strangely, EyeTV wrongly detects the main (-1) subchannel as a different station (I can manually edit it), while both the HR24/AM21 and the Vizio TV correctly identify the station. The station appears as 28-1, which is the same as the main station, although they are on different frequencies (it gets a bit confusing).
     
  18. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

    5,085
    88
    Aug 9, 2006
    That's an interesting clue. Something is screwed up in the PSIP encoding for sure.
    There is nothing in the "rules" as far as I know to stop the repeater using the same "virtual" channel as the main station, but it is very confusing and IMHO should not be allowed. When we looked at
    this a couple of years ago there were places in Utah that could get the same "virtual" channel on three different frequencies, because of the numerous repeaters. My guess is that something in the subchannel encoding still has remnants of the old "real" channel, or the DirecTV database for the subchannels is still pointing to the mapping for the main station. This usually happens because the people in control of the repeater haven't communicated the mapping correctly. In one case in Utah, they had correctly notified Tribune that the repeater was on a different "actual" frequency for the -1 channel, but had not mentioned any of the subchannels...
     
  19. tkrandall

    tkrandall Hall Of Fame

    1,806
    0
    Oct 3, 2003
    As an aside. I have always thought virtual channels for the ATSC feeds to be a bad idea. Some really peculiar FCC virtual channel association rules came with the whole package as well.

    As to the directv implementation for OTA - that's just another ill conceived Rube Goldberg concept on top of another one that has taken a very simple matter of scanning or manually setting up channels and made it needlessly convoluted and dysfunctional.
     
  20. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    5,957
    54
    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    +1
     

Share This Page