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Another Dish Fight (RESOLVED) - Chambers Communication

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by russ9, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

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    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    "There is good programming on local TV ... good NETWORK programming. Stuff that if the network decided to pull and place on a cable/satellite channel next year would make local TV obsolete. When the network affiliation distribution model falls apart that programming will continue to be delivered ... without the local station. It seems that now the most popular programming on "local TV" isn't local at all ... it is just stuff the station bought via an affiliation agreement."

    Sounds like you live in a market with some really crappy affiliates.
    Care to tell us what DMA, so we know which ownership to blame?

    Some of us work very hard to do broadcasting right, and being all lumped together is a bit unfair, don't you think?
     
  2. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Jun 6, 2009


    What local programming is there other than the local news and a few highschool football games? Even the local news is about half national feeds and how much talent is there is televising a football game?

    Other than local news, how much truly local programming is there during a typical weekday? An hour? Overnight is generally filled with infomercials. Daytime is all talk shows and soaps, maybe a game show or syndicated (fake) courtroom farce. Evening and latemight are network.

    I'm not sure I remember the last time I saw a truly locally produced show on the schedule.
     
  3. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

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    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Not exactly responsive to the question ... which was:
    It looks like they have a couple of series that would count as shows (and not just recurring segments on the news), albeit most are Sunday morning religious programming.

    The KSL Program Guide might be a better link to answer the question.

    Weekdays:
    News, national morning show, syndication until 11am.
    11am Studio 5 --- One hour of local non-news content?
    News, soaps, syndication, news, syndication, news, national prime time, news, national late night

    Weekend:
    "Off Air" ... yep, that's local programming. Paid programs, national programs ... a little local news.
    Ah, 90 minutes of religious programming on Sunday Morning (repeated later).

    Roughly an hour of non-news local production per day?

    That particular station does well with news and community involvement (off air) ... that particular local station might even exist without the network programming - although then the network time would just be filled with more syndication, infomercials and old movies (not local production). However without that expensive network programming to draw viewers they may not be able to continue to support their community involvement and news.


    How does Chambers do in these areas? Are they worth anything without their network?
     
  5. Poco Askew

    Poco Askew AllStar

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    Sep 25, 2007
    I wish it was otherwise, but for me Chambers does nothing in our markets. The local news is painful to watch with repeats of the same weather forecast over and over. I would drop them for the national feed in a heartbeat.
     
  6. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
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    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    I think it was very responsive to the question...
    The Sunday religious shows are produced by our own staff and crew, even the "MoTabs" are a product originally produced by KSL radio and TV, now done thru the LDS Church's AV studios, with a crew that is largely KSL people. Several of the other shows on weekends are produced exclusively for KSL by outside vendors. Sunday Edition, a news program, is produced entirely by our news departments.

    During the week, we produce several hours a day of local news, as well as an hour-long Studio 5, which is (admittedly) a mostly-paid program, but features local businesses and entrepreneurs and self-help experts on various family matters and household needs.

    There are also links to various initiatives that KSL and it's fellow companies have created in order to promote community values.

    That hour or so of "Off Air" on Saturday and Sunday morning only applies to the primary channel, and is a hold-over from the old days when transmitter maintenance was done "live" and there would sometimes be an "off the air" period for tests and work with the translator engineers and Cable techs, such as evaluating interference and noise on the VHF channels. "Live-5 Weather" and "Universal Sports" continue 24/7, except when it is necessary to power-down the entire transmitter, or do site maintenance on the combiner and antenna system.

    I'd say that we do a good bit more than "just pass through" some network programming...but, I agree that we're doing a lot more than many stations. Some try to earn their keep, some take the easy way out.
    We make a commitment to our viewers, and have done so since the beginning.
     
  7. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Jun 6, 2009
    ^^ Like I said ..... other than local news. I really don't count that as programming; more of a community service. Same with the weather sub-channel which is a pre-recorded loop interspersed with self-promos.

    Most of the religious programming here is done by the various churches themselves. The station has nothing to do with it. I think the churches pay to have them aired, but I'm not certain.

    I could probably do without the local stations if I could get network feeds including RTN. and local news & weather. For the most part, I get my weather from the NWS and some stand-alone programs on my PC, so I might even be able to do without that from a TV station.

    Easing back towards the topic ....... this is why I don't think locals should be allowed to charge a retrans fee since they really don't own much of the programming anyways.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Then you missed the question.
    Other than local news, how much truly local programming is there during a typical weekday? An hour?​
    Yes, your station is doing fine with news ... better than most. But without the network/syndicated/non-locally produced programming where would you be? You'd have a lot more time for transmitter maintenance.

    National fed programming is the life blood of a local affiliate. Keeping it exclusive to your station for your market is key ... and like Chambers, charging cable and satellite to help you deliver that national programming is just another way of making money in 2010. Not treated as partnership to reach your viewers ... just another revenue stream.
     
  9. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
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    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    If community service programming that is produced by the station and using the station's personnel, studios and skills/talent is not considered "local programming", then what is? It takes at least as much dedication to produce as a newscast.

    They may not OWN the programming, but they PAY a huge amount of money for the exclusive legal rights to distribute it within their area. When you rent a car, it doesn't mean somebody can just take it and drive away. You are the one paying for it.
     
  10. russ9

    russ9 Godfather

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    Jan 28, 2004
    As a coda to this topic, it was just announced that the Fox affiliate KMVU is in a contract dispute with our Direct-TV brothers and service may be cut off Friday.
    Out-Fox'd?
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Distribution is fine ... getting in to the resale market is where most people disagree with local redistribution. There are limits to that redistribution contract. The local station can't burn DVDs and sell network programming and can't rerun programming. Why not consider the resale of the programming as a further limit? The intent of the network contract is delivery of the network programming to people in the distribution area, isn't it? Not resale.

    Without the network/syndicated/non-locally produced programming where would you be? There are many more efficient ways of delivering national network content than via hundreds of local stations. You're lucky that the networks are charging you so much for content ... if they could make more money via other distribution they would drop you.
     
  12. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

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    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    "Re-selling" the programming is within the rights of the network contracts, but making and selling DVD's, or re-running programming (or, even showing them at non-agreed times) is not.

    If the networks could make Hulu fees high enough to cover the costs of producing the programming, without charging local stations for the use of them, I'm sure they would drop affiliates...just like you said.

    As a matter of fact, I expect the financial burden of program production to be borne, more and more, by the viewing public as times go by. The locals may not be part of that money train, but the networks are going to get paid some way.
    They might even just SELL the programming to the Cable and satellite providers...just like they sell to the stations now.
     
  13. GrumpyBear

    GrumpyBear Hall Of Fame

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    I guess a Mod can close this thread as the dispute ended a couple of days ago.
     
  14. Poco Askew

    Poco Askew AllStar

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    That's the model I expect...and hope for.
    Rather than sell national programming to affiliates, which in turn re-sell it to cable and satellite providers, drop the middleman and cut overhead. The locals can still buy programming for OTA broadcasting (along with their own productions) with revenue derived from local advertising. Production costs are already being passed on to the viewer one way or another. We might as well make the delivery as efficient as possible. If cable/sat/streaming viewers want to pay for local news and other local productions, make it an option.
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    And that would be the biggest risk of stations withholding satellite/cable carriage ... networks seeing spotty coverage and realizing that their affiliation deals are not getting the job of distributing the programs done.

    Of course the O&Os are probably the worst for demanding money or other compensation ... but they have nothing to lose. The network will never cut O&Os off and O&O carriage is historically tied to cable channel carriage. And being major market stations there are more viewers to manipulate in to changing providers, providing a greater negotiation threat.
     
  16. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Lack of local programming is my pet peeve about local broadcast stations. To its credit, the Bay Area CBS O&O KPIX tries but depends on its news department a great deal. It has a regular evening show Eye on the Bay which is generally interesting. And they have some remarkable local talent like Thuy Vu. But they still fill with a lot of Judge Judy, etc.

    The ABC affliiate KGO offers a token hour daily talk show. The Fox affiliate KTVU, not O&O offers "Friends" and "Seinfeld" reruns along with other cheap syndicated programming, apparently designed to be consistent with News Corp's policy to make as much money as possible while contributing nothing beneficial to the nation. The NBC affiliate is a joke.

    The PBS affiliate KQED of course touts its local programming:

    [​IMG]

    Of course, Dish has yet to give us this in HD. But we get the truly worthless MyNetwork affiliate in HD.:mad:
     

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