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Are Confederate memorials racist?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Danny R, Jan 6, 2005.

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  1. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Thanks to modern liberalism - the yankees probably wouldn't which end of the gun shoots now :lol:
     
  2. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I also agree that if the confederate flag (even the wrong one) is offensive to people because of "what it stands for", then why shouldn't the American flag make the British sick? We did the exact same thing in the 1700's (taxation, tariffs,...) but ours is our most celebrated moment in history.

    I would hardly call it the "exact same thing". The confederate battle flag wasn't really considered offensive until it was adopted by racist groups. Flags without that association that are still related to the confederacy aren't considered nearly as insulting. Georgia's new flag is still based on a Confederate design for instance and is generally acceptable to everyone (except those who demand only the old flag back).

    But I'm sure we can make our flag insulting to England if we tried. Perhaps if on July 4th a bunch of us Americans flew to England, rented some big trucks, planted our Stars and Stripes on a big pole in the back, and drove around on the right side of the road and shouted obsenities as we pass all the brits... then we might be considered a bit insulting. ;)

    Other interesting symbols. HGL...was the pink triangle now used by homosexuals not used originally by the Nazis to denote homosexual prisoners?

    Symbols of oppression often are picked up by the victims. Christians still hold the cross as their primary symbol for instance.

    Victims generally don't pick up the symbols of their oppressors however to represent them. Jews/gays/gypsies/etc don't wear swastika's. Likewise blacks (or gays) don't co-opt the confederate flag.

    Thanks to modern liberalism - the yankees probably wouldn't which end of the gun shoots now

    The liberal elite might not, but liberalism is most predominant in the big city, and big cities are havens for a different kind of gun violence. Northern liberals might not be able to go out hunting (without a valet and escorts), but they do know how to do the "drive by", the "carjack", the "home invasion", etc. ;)

    And besides which, many of us Southern social liberals (although a minority) do have ample gun skills. In a new civil war fought for ideological rather than regional concepts, I imagine a lot of folks would relocate to fight for their respective sides.
     
  3. Bogy

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    SAEMike and pjmrt, you guys can really twist facts around and rationalyze. So the Civil War didn't hurt anyone, but made the country stronger? Then why are you still complaining about Sherman? He just made the south stronger. A bunch of traitors thought they could set up their own country and then were surprised that anyone objected.

    The south thought the same thing at that time that you do now, that the North wouldn't have the stomach for a war, and wouldn't do anything. You might be just as surprised today as they were then. You guys do know that I'm just a tad liberal. But before my knees went bad on me I did a lot of hunting. Looking forward to next year, hoping that they get good enough for me to do some again. I guess you didn't notice that even Al Gore and John Kerry know how to shoot. But what can you expect from people who live their lives by stereotypes. :lol:
     
  4. SimpleSimon

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    You mean (I hope) that there's now fewer than 150-something "Peachtree" streets/avenues/roads/parkways/lanes/alleys/sewers/airports (PDK)/whatevers
     
  5. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    The use of oppressive symbols by those who were oppressed by them is not unusual. The pink triangle which the Nazis used to label homosexuals gained popularity among gay peoples during the 1980's when in AIDS education campaigns it was accompanied by the slogan "SILENCE = DEATH". A very appropriate combination. An interesting side-note on the pink triangle and the Nazis is the fact that when the Allies liberated all of the concentration camps, the jews, the gypsies, everyone set free EXCEPT those with the pink triangles. They were transferred to Allied prisons and held, some up until 1974! And some people wonder why gay people so distrust straights...

    But, since I will likely be accused of "hijacking" this thread (instead of the person who posited the question to me), I'll leave it at that.
     
  6. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    At last count there are 34 streets with "Peachtree" in their name in metro Atlanta. Those I can deal with. It is when street names change every week when someone dies, that's the problem!
     
  7. SimpleSimon

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    A VAST improvement over the situation in the early '90s when I lived there. :)
     
  8. jonstad

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    If I'm not mistaken, the flag in question is the "Confederate Battle Flag". And therefore carries the implication of defiance and even violence. Probably one of the reasons it was chosen by racist groups, AND by states resenting the imposition of integration. Of course at least the states will deny this, claiming it is "just a symbol of the South". But really, we can all read between the lines, can't we?

    In addition, to the casual, uninformed observer, it's a really nice looking flag design.:D Bilaterally symmetrical with that nice cross dissecting into pleasing triangles, the stars and red, white and blue colors. It's really quite a handsome flag. Simple, yet elegant. On purely aesthetic grounds, probably a more pleasing design then the Stars and Stripes. Out of all the Confederate flags or symbols I've seen, and admittedly I haven't done much research, this one is certainly the best one. I can see why this is a favored design. Too bad it got all caught up in the stink of racism and oppression. It's the one I'd pick also.
     
  9. djlong

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    Learn something new every day.. Ok, so you're telling me the familiar "Stars and Bars" was not the "official" flag of the CSA, that it was the "Battle flag"?

    Was there an "official" CSA flag?
     
  10. toomuchtv

    toomuchtv Godfather

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    try this site for more info: http://www.confederateflags.org/
     
  11. Pete K.

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  12. jonstad

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    Yeah, who knew, eh?:shrug:

    By the looks of the website, they were more then just a little "flag-happy". Maybe if they'd spent less effort designing flags and more fighting the war, Lincoln would be remembered as the guy who LOST the Civil War.:sure:
     
  13. Bogy

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    Not only couldn't these traitors get along with the north, they couldn't even get along with each other and decide on one flag.
     
  14. n8dagr8

    n8dagr8 Resident Rounder DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Thanks, followed the link....now I'm on some FBI watch list. :lol:

    1st part - so it's the racist we should hate not the flag....if we could only stop judging books by their covers

    2nd part - :lol: how many times have I seen this. Anyone been to talladega? :lol:
     
  15. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    1st part - so it's the racist we should hate not the flag....if we could only stop judging books by their covers

    Of course its the racists we should hate. However nothing in this world is static. Just as certain words take on new meanings over time (gay, hacker, goth, etc), so too do certain symbols become tainted with use by specific groups.
     
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