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ASK: 811 SD picture jumps

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by LG811User, Jan 11, 2005.

Please respond only if you have an 811 Receiver

  1. Yes I have picture jumping as described in this thread.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No I do not have picture jumping as described in this thread.

    17.6%
  3. Unsure

    82.4%
  1. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    If I understand correctly, the reason a VCR was mention was because it has it's own modulator/tuner. Remember S-Video and Composite are not isolated. And the output voltages are common. Being able to see a major difference in outputs should be noticeable between Composite and Component.
     
  2. LG811User

    LG811User Legend

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    Jan 11, 2005
    Ah, I understand. That makes sense.

    It may take me some time for me to borrow a VCR. Hopefully, in the interim, someone else who is also experiencing this same problem could give it a shot.
     
  3. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson ViP622/ViP722 Guy DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jan 16, 2005
    I guess I've been through most of this already. Here's how I'm hooked up and what I've tried.

    1. My 811's DVI connector feeds my main HDTV. Picture jumps

    2. The S-Video connector feeds my S-VHS VCR. VCR feeds the 811 rear panel input 1. The VCR's RF out feeds my RF switcher which feeds my remote TV's (kitchen, garage, etc.) Video fed through the VCR to the TV's fed by RF also have a jumpy picture.

    3. The first composite out also feeds my main HDTV. Picture jumps.

    4. The second composite out feeds a video/audio DA. One output of the DA feeds my bedroom TV. Picture jumps.

    5. The 2nd output of the composite DA feeds a RF Modulator that feeds my remote TVs. And the picture jumps here, too.

    Would it be useful to try to capture video of this happening?

    Mike J
     
  4. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    Dec 10, 2002

    Mike does this only happen with the banner up or at all times? Going to try this tonight on my set.

    Answered my own question. No. I did the Avia test and I did notice the convergence screen jump. It does not do it often about once ever minute or so but it does jump. I have not noticed this while watching normal 811 content. This was DVD->composite->811->DVI->TV

    I did the same test with DVD direct to TV through component. No Jump.
     
  5. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    OK...Let try to get a handle on this to see how many others are experiencing the issue. Please via the Poll.
     
  6. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Here's something to try,




    Jason


     
  7. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson ViP622/ViP722 Guy DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jan 16, 2005
    For me, it happens at all times, but only on the video behind the banner. The banner itself stays perfectly stable. That's why this must be happening inside the 811. Did you observe the banner when you did your test?

    Keep a close eye on the video while watching a channel that has a ticker at the bottom. If you saw it with the DVD test, chances are, you'll see it on satellite, too.

    One post over on Satellite Guys stated that Dish Tech support is calling this the "studdering video" problem as there is often a slight freeze in the video when it happens.

    Mike J
     
  8. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Mike, be careful, there are actually two issues being described in the other threads. The first is the stutter issue, the second is a flickering issue. The logged symptoms are unique to each. Engineering has strong suspicion on what's happening here but we need to follow thru with the given feedback on this issue to try to isolate it on the receivers in this thread.
     
  9. LG811User

    LG811User Legend

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    Jan 11, 2005

    My HDTV is not 720p capable. I tried both 480p and 1080i and saw the problem with both sources.

    I don't want to confuse the issue any further but I will add one more observation - with S-video or composite ouputs it looks more like "jumping", with component outputs (at either 480p or 1080i) it looks more like "flickering" or "shaking". Actually "shuddering" would probably be more appropriate...the picture doesn't go off and then on like "flickering" would describe...it just wobbles a little.
     
  10. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    OK thanks, will pass on your info.
     
  11. LG811User

    LG811User Legend

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    Jan 11, 2005

    I think having video of this happening would be most useful if it's not too much trouble. That way we could all confirm whether or not we are seeing the same behavior and it would remove some of the subjectivity/ambiguity involved with trying to describe the behavior. It might also help the Dish engineers.
     
  12. LG811User

    LG811User Legend

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    Jan 11, 2005
    I tried one more test. I hooked the 811 directly to a sharp 27" TV via composite outputs. I saw the same problem with the picture jumping.

    To me, this removes the Pioneer/811 interaction from being the root of the problem.
     
  13. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Not as easy as it sounds, especially if your TV is a CRT. Consider CCD, frame rates, capture rates, resolutions, etc. Point a camcorder at a CRT TV screen and watch it the horizontal lines, of course it is possible that you may have a lot better camcorder than I. ;)
     
  14. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson ViP622/ViP722 Guy DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I'll see if I can get something captured over the weekend...Is that something I can post here?

    I did try the other 811 video output settings, but I could see the jump in the video on all settings.

    I've also made the same observation that on composite, it looks like the video shifts up or down a line or two when this happens, while on DVI it sometimes looks like a studder in the video, or like it moves up or down a line or two or more.....

    To me this looks like the scaler in the 811 isn't locking to the video correctly. It is especially bad if I view a noisy video source, like a weak over-the-air channel. I would expect the 811 to have trouble with a noisy source, but it seems it has trouble with clean ones, too.
     
  15. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    I noticed a odd thing tonight.. I was watching some of the charlie chat reply and I say what looked like the same jump I noticed with the Cross hatch test. It might be the content or it could be the 811. Hard to tell. This was SD ofcourse and I have mine hooked to DVI at 1080i.
     
  16. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    WJD, are you saying you saw it happen on one of your DVR's? Like your 721 or 921?
     
  17. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    Nope.. The replay was on 101. I was watching it live. Would be interesting if you could watch the replay and see if you see it. It might be content based or actually in the content. Hard to tell.
     
  18. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    It's on again at 6pm tonight CST. I will do my best to be here to watch. I will even send my wife to the other TV as I am using the 811 and distributing to more than one HDTV.

    But realistically, there is a chance this is like the issue with DLP Displays with DLP's suffering from "Rainbow Effect". Some people are just more sensitive and in tune than others. Some people can easily spot DLP rainbows others can't. I for one can, I can even see a bit of Rainbow in Plasma.
     
  19. Ron Barry

    Ron Barry 622 Tips & Trick Keeper

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    I am definitely more a tune to it for sure. I am very PQ sensitive based on other people I have been next too watching the same program. However, I did not notice this until I did the Cross Hatch test and I have only seen it on CC so far and I know the PQ and content quality is not that good. It would not suprise me that what I am seeing is in the content. I saw it during the horse segment.

    I will tape it with my 921 tonight and see if it is in the stream
     
  20. Jason Nipp

    Jason Nipp Analog Geek in a Digital World Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Gold Club DBSTalk Club

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    Northern...
    Though I'm not sure how good of an example CC is since the PQ of the chat has always sucked. It's like they use old VHS handicams to film it. ;)
     

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