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Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by inazsully, Sep 4, 2013.
How many key games would you miss without PAC-12?
There's really no point for Directv to cave at this point, all the really loyal Pac 12 fans will have left them for Dish or cable by now. They've already taken whatever financial hit they're going to take from the exodus.
B1G fans tend to disperse all over the country (because its cold here and because many of the schools are so big) so there's more out of market demand for BTN than there would be for a Pac 12 network. That surely figured in to Directv's decision that the Pac 12 network isn't worth what BTN is. The Pac 12 network would really be more of an RSN than a national network, because there just aren't that many people in the midwest, south and east coast who care about it. BTN has a bigger national following, and the SEC Network will simply because they're the dominant football conference for the past decade.
Uh No, we're still with D*, just not happy that the PAC 12 Net is not on.
The San Jose St-Stanford game this weekend, as well Cal-Portland St as four other games on this Thursday & Saturday.
No love from D* for the NorCal collegiate football fan.
It's not whether they are fanatics or not. It's how many of them that is the issue. Based on statistical analysis from 2010, the PAC-12 has about 7.5 million fans nationwide. The Big 10 has about 17.5 million, with Ohio St, Michigan and Penn St being the top 3 in the country. USC would rank 5th in fans if they were in the Big 10 and UCLA would be 8th (9th if USC were also there),
When you have a fan base that's about 42% of the Big 10, can they really expect DirectV someone to pay 80-85% of what they are paying the Big 10?
Indeed I can. 7.5 million fans is not a minor number. I would say that this number is not even remotely close to the number of Pac-12 fans in Pac-12 country, not to mention the rest of the country. Consider that not only do you have students and alums as fans but plenty of folks that just pull for the home team. I grew up in Indiana and was a Notre Dame fan from the age of eight and still follow then religeously 58 years later. You can't discount the millions of kids that the poll counters don't count when coming up with these so called FAN numbers. I'm not just picking on "D" because "E: is just as big an idiot for their little petty battle with Disney. There's plenty of greedy idiot providers out there, just don't let "D" off the hook.
I think the Pac-12 dish deal is "the same" as the Dish Big 10 deal. This has been how Larry Scott can keep saying that all of the providers have agreed to the same terms. Directv gave a sweet deal to the Big-10 and that is what Larry wants, the same placement as the Big-10.
Of those 7.5 million how many are or would be DIRECTV subscribers?
If it were my business I wouldn't make the deal unless the price was worth the money to enhance the brand. It's a lot harder to explain to 20 million people why their costs went up than a fraction of 7.5 million why they can't watch a few games during football season.
Thank you, but I was asking Mr. Sharpe what key games he thought he would miss.
It's not the same... Dish got advertising in P12 arenas & stadiums.
I know of several that have stayed with "E" because they wanted the Pac-12 Network. One person here said the same thing. I haven't seen anybodies cost go up because of the Pac-12 Network. "D" and "E": generally raise their prices without justifying to us the reason why. They raise it and we pay it. Equipment cost, carraige fee increases, higher operating costs. What are we going to do, agrue with them? I can't throw out any num bers but I'm pretty sure that a lot of "D" subs would like to have the Pac-12 Network and the fact thay they don't is making "E" and Cox very happy.
Any football game with UCLA or USC is a key game for me. Every game counts in the bcs standings, every one.
If you argue there are more than 7.5 million Pac 12 fans then there are also more than 17.5 million B1G fans since the numbers came from the same study and used the same methodology to determine the definition of "fan". Either way with fewer than half the fans, the Pac 12 needs to drop the price down to somewhere in the ballpark of half what BTN charges to be reasonable. If they argue they are worth 80-85% of what BTN charges (I don't know the numbers, just grabbing that from Bill Broderick's post) they have to back that up somehow.
Clearly Directv hasn't seen enough of a financial impact to justify paying what the Pac 12 asks, it all comes down to dollars and cents for something like this. They have to consider not only what adding the Pac 12 at the price they're demanding would cost, but also how caving in would affect their negotiating position in the future. If they paid Pac 12 85% of what BTN gets, when BTN is up for renegotiation in two years they'll ask for more than double what they're currently getting by pointing out they have twice the fanbase (and that study wouldn't have included the teams the B1G has added since, it would be closer to 3x) Then when Pac 12 comes around for renegotiation they'll argue they need to double their prices to match the B1G's increase, and the B1G and SEC will double theirs because they have twice as many fans, and so on. Where does it end?
It is like CEO pay, one guy gets a million so the other guys in the same industry use that as a baseline figure and one eventually gets $2 million, and that becomes the new baseline figure, and on and on.
Then Directv isn't really listening to you because "not happy" doesn't hurt them in the bottom line. The people who are true Pac 12 fans will have left Directv because they must see the games. You want to see the games, but not enough to drop Directv. Why should they listen to you if you aren't costing them any money? It costs them nothing to take your emails or calls, apologize and say "we're working diligently to come to an agreement with the Pac 12". Until you and enough other people threaten to cancel over it, and actually follow through, they have no reason to really care what you think. That's the only thing that is going to change their mind, other than the Pac 12 coming down in price. Obviously not enough people have done so as of yet.
I agree. What I don't agree with the PAC 12 is that "all the deals are the same."
I get that! No surprise there. Have you figured out how many won't be carried by other than PAC-12 of those games?
Again we're talking about branding and churn here. If my budget is X, and we over pay by Y, forcing a price increase of Z. Is that channel worth it to the brand? What's to keep those customers with "D"? Why not get the new customer offer from "E" or Cox to save the money? They also have PAC-12. I'm pointing out that there are better investments out there that will appeal to a much large customer base and go a lot farther in improving the brand of the company.
It's not a matter of "D" not caring because the subs aren't complaining enough. On any given day at any given hour they know pretty much who is watching what channel. And so do their advertisers. When Ford or Geiko or All State is spending millions of dollars advertising during football games, because they know the target 18-35 year old male is watching football, they would probably like to know that the 7-8 million Pac-12 fans are watching those expensive commercials. It's not a matter of "D"'s subs not dropping "D", it's a matter of "D"s subs not seeing the commercials. Legand I think you greatly underestimate the dollar power of the average sports fan. Remenber fan stands for fanatic.
It is the difference between "basically the same" and "exactly the same." The statements I have seen from PAC-12 are on the side of "basically". Not exactly (which could be construed as "same number of subscribers" if one wanted) but fairly close.
X cents in market, Y cents out, the same distribution as BIG-10. Give PAC-12 that deal. Basically the same deal as DISH.
And further to this point, the value that D* subscribers get from B1G is likely to higher just based on geography. B1G games are played in the Eastern and Central time zone where the largest concentration of population lives. General football fans -- meaning people who like college football but didn't go to the schools playing in a specific game -- are not going to stay up until 2am to watch USC kill Arizona St.
Again, D* has less incentive to add the Pac12 so they aren't going to pay top dollar.