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ATSC mirror of NTSC feeds

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by liferules, Mar 4, 2006.

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  1. liferules

    liferules Godfather

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    I agree, there should be a requirement to have it map to x.1.

    Nonetheless, since this topic is our "wishlist"...I'd like the PVR to somehow recognize the program title whether it be OTA or sat and determine the best output to record it and reconcile any conflicts without me having to create duplicate entries for each OTA and sat local timer.
     
  2. CABill

    CABill Hall Of Fame

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    Where can we find that requirement? Are PBS stations exempted, or is the requirement not yet in effect? Even when my KVIE was doing 4 subchannels, the OTA content never appeared ATSC.

    http://www.kqed.org/tv/digitaltv/ lists the bay area PBS digitals and they don't match the NTSC schedule at http://www.kqed.org/tv/daily-schedule.jsp. Since neither PBS near me mirrors their NTSC, I'm surprised the FCC requires it.
     
  3. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    47 CFR 73.624
    (b) DTV broadcast station permittees or licensees must transmit at least one over-the-air video program signal at no direct charge to viewers on the DTV channel.

    (f)(i) Commencing on April 1, 2003, DTV television licensees and permittees must simulcast 50 percent of the video programming of the analog channel on the DTV channel.
    (ii) Commencing on April 1, 2004, DTV licensees and permittees must simulcast 75% of the video programming of the analog channel on the DTV channel.
    (iii) Commencing on April 1, 2005, DTV licensees and permittees must simulcast 100% of the video programming of the analog channel on the DTV channel.
    (iv) The simulcasting requirements imposed in paragraphs (f) (i)–(iii) of this section will terminate when the analog channel terminates operation and a 6 MHz channel is returned by the DTV licensee or permittee to the Commission.​
     
  4. CABill

    CABill Hall Of Fame

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    I thought that timetable from 2003 had been removed. I don't keep up, but this 2004 release http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-250542A1.pdf says:

    Eliminating, for now, the simulcasting requirement to permit the transmission of
    additional innovative programming on broadcast digital channels;

    Trying to not go farther OT, I'll say I wish the digital TV targets hadn't kept being moved. 2006 had been the switchover!
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Hmm ... the Final Rule is here with more discussion (paragraphs 125-131).

    Apparently because most stations ARE simulcasting (for competitive reasons) they have decided not to REQUIRE simulcasting at this time. Part of the reasoning seems to come down to the definition of simulcasting ... is a simulcasting the same program in HD equivilent to simulcasting the SD/NTSC feed? Instead of defining them as the same they just removed the requirement and left it up to the market to "do the right thing".

    Thanks for the pointer.
     
  6. CABill

    CABill Hall Of Fame

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    I really appreciate taking this out of the Wish List thread - WAY OT there.

    It will be a while before I make it through the 100+ pages in that pdf, but even if I do, I won't really understand it. I skimmed through one about a year and a half ago noting simulcast was suspended, at least temporarily. I was thinking they may have reinstated some dates, or exempted PBS somehow.

    I did discover that I was quite wrong about the Bay Area's KQED now. For over a year, they didn't simulcast their NTSC signal but apparently HAVE done so for a while (months?). KQED Encore USED to be rebroadcasts you could use to catch something in case you missed it live but seems now to be a 24/7 copy of NTSC. There are curious differences where one will show a start time of 4:27 and the other starts at 4:30, but that is close enough to simulcast for me. Their web site still describes ENCO (re) as "best of primetime and original content" or something close. It also lists old "Airs 8pm - 6am" info, so some of this may be quite recent.

    The DISH EPG shows the correct programming for the KQED ENCO channel, but since I don't get SF's locals, I can't guarantee 9-02 matches 9-00. For me, 9-00 just indicates generic Analog. The 9-01 identifies itself (PSIP) as KQED in the guide and is the actual HD station. It doesn't match the NTSC at all. Up until recently, the DISH EPG was showing something indicating "Off Air" when it wasn't transmitting but now lists a 24/7 programming schedule. This is where things start to get really weird. 9.1 (HD) and 9.2-9.5 (SD) will all be available 24/7 to Comcast subscribers but OTA (and hence DBS subs) will be restricted to partial day schedules. A KQED manager's response was posted to Usenet at http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.tech.hdtv/msg/a7ca858f2ae28598?&hl=en

    Bottom line is the Sacramento PBS (KVIE) doesn't simulcast their NTSC at all. SF's KQED didn't, but now does. DISH does a great job of matching the progamming info to the 5 subchannels of KQED, regardless of the PSIP channel "name". The Off Air times would seem to be a Tribune problem, not DISH. I wish it was that good on the Sacto PBS and CBS stations. Had to throw in a "wish"!
     
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