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Audio Sync issues - WHEN will this be fixed?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by cody21, Nov 27, 2007.

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  1. cody21

    cody21 Icon

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    Sep 26, 2007
    Yep, me also... The MPEG4 LILs are by far the worst. And this occurs on both the HR20-xxx and the non-DVR hardware : H20-100 .. so has nothing to do with the buffer/recorder in the HR20 ... But I really believe it's the MPEG4 "spotbeam" technology that is the culprit. But I'm no technician.

    Is CNNHD Mpeg4 ???
     
  2. inazsully

    inazsully Icon

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    Oct 3, 2006
    As someone stated in a new thread in the programming thread. "D" has responded" and they have us where they want us and the few people they lose is more acceptable than the cost to fix the lip-sync problem. Hence, no responses from "D" insiders.
     
  3. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    Sep 3, 2004
    Boy, you sure read a lot into nothing said.
     
  4. thekochs

    thekochs DirecTV 10yr+ Customer

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    Oct 7, 2006
    More audio sync issues today on MPEG4 locals...alot. This is really getting annoying.
     
  5. eatswodo

    eatswodo AllStar

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    Nov 19, 2005
    +1 on that. Honestly, I'd forgotten about lip sync issues prior to the current release. Now they're back with a vengeance. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that 0x1BE has broken something.
     
  6. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    Sep 3, 2004
    I have read here of people seeing sync problems on an H20, too, so it has to be something more than just the software in the HR20.

    On top of that, eatswodo, you are drawing cause and effect when it is hardly a controlled environment.

    Going back to the dates posted in this forum, the new HD broadcasts have all started since the software two generations ago. Everything else is up in the air along with the new software. I don't know how you blame one and exonerate the other. My guess is both are in play, the software and the new stations.

    I know some of it is the broadcaster's fault (different sync delays within the same broadcast from CNN HD). I know some of it is DirecTV's fault, even on pre-existing stations (sync problems along with an awful picture now on HDNet). I know some of them exist within a HR20 (pause and play or a channel change will fix sync problems on live TV).

    Unfortunately, some of you are looking for a magic bullet to fix this problem. Sorry, it's more complicated than that. It isn't just the broadcasters' fault. It isn't just DirecTV's fault. It isn't just the fault of the HR20 or its software. It's the fault of the entire chain.

    This also means this problem won't be fixed quickly. Feel free to bitch about it but also get ready to live with it as things get worked out over the next few months. Sync problems, for better or worse, are going to be around for quite a while. They have existed since day one of HDTV.
     
  7. eatswodo

    eatswodo AllStar

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    Nov 19, 2005
    If I'd said '0x1BE broke it', you'd be absolutely right. That's not what I said.

    The version change is the only one that I, as a consumer of DirecTV's service, am aware of. That doesn't mean that there aren't other factors in play. Guess I need to use more weasel words next time.
     
  8. jwpjax

    jwpjax New Member

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    Mar 27, 2007
    I must also agree with this, the 0x1BE update has also introduced the lip sync issues on my hr20-700, that was flawless until it was downloaded. Can we not back rev to the previous national release somehow to prove this update caused the lip sync problems.
     
  9. dreadlk

    dreadlk Hall Of Fame

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    Sep 18, 2007
    Same here with HR20-100 it was working perfectly up until 0x1BE then the problems started. I now find that recording HD material is a waste of time.
    BTW the republican debate in HD had a great picture but the sync issue's kind of ruined it.


     
  10. Vor

    Vor Mentor

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    Jul 5, 2007
    This is only partially accurate. The "problem" can exist anywhere in the chain, but it's very likely that a large majority of the existing problems are in one or two locations. Unfortunately, we don't know how many problems go into the different categories.

    So if it's a show that NOBODY sees as "synced", and other shows on the same channel are synced, then it's got to be a broadcaster's problem and there's little to nothing DTV can do about it. ("I'm going to pull your station until you fix this sync problem!" "Really? What HD channel you gonna replace us with to make your advertised number of HD channels accurate?")

    But if it's a show that ANYBODY sees as "synced", and you're seeing sync problems, then the problem has to be in either DTV's delivery system or in your HR-20.

    If you're seeing a sync problem and it goes away after a trick play or an RBR, especially if it's a recorded program, then it has to be a problem with the software that SHOULD BE FIXED.

    I, for one, would be happy if DTV just fixed the stuff under their control.
     
  11. inazsully

    inazsully Icon

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    Oct 3, 2006
    Again, answers and possible causes from us, the customer, yet no response from someone associated directly with "D". And this is certainly not the only lip sync thread here or on the avs forum. Switch back and forth between SD and HD on "Everybody Loves Raymond", on TBS.
     
  12. TomMac

    TomMac Legend

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    Dec 22, 2006
    Today I did not notice any real problems with audio sync on the TWCHD or CNNHD. I checked both my receivers.

    The DR20-700 is using the HDMI output and my HR20-100 is using the RGB output to an SD TV.
     
  13. jschek

    jschek Cool Member

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    Jun 14, 2007
    Last night I had some terrible Discovery HD issues. Some of the material was recorded from earlier in the week, and some of it was recorded earlier that night. Mythbusters has been out of sync (upwards of 3-5 seconds) on every episode for me for the better part of a month now! Argh!

    I get sync issues on both of the HR20's (identical models) when recording the same show... though sometimes one is slightly better-synced than the other.

    I have noticed this problem on my system much more frequently on the "new" HD channels (i.e. MPEG 4) vs the older HD channels (MPEG2 locals, etc)... I'm using HDMI to the TV and an optical to the receiver.

    My wife is ready to kill me with all the problems this HD stuff has... and quite frankly, I'm ready to pay the cancellation fee and just dump DirecTV at this point.
     
  14. opelap

    opelap Legend

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    Nov 4, 2006
    Anybody else amazed at the shortsightedness of the standard? Why is there not a sync signal in the audio/video? I wouldn't think this would be that big of a problem.
     
  15. jschek

    jschek Cool Member

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    Jun 14, 2007
    Having been forced to sit on an ANSI Standards committee (I'm not sure what I did wrong to deserve such a punishment), I am not in the least surprised.

    Everyone comes to the table with a financial interest in protecting their own methods/products/legacy... and all it takes in a handful of participants to destroy a standard. A lot of the people involved in the committee are either the incompetent, competent specialists in who don't know enough to understand the big picture, or have other more important priorties. Those who really care about making the standard succeed are often punished with high workloads or attacked for promoting ideas that might change the status quo (i.e. cost someone money).

    The fact that there's ANY ability for this stuff to work still amazes me...

    That said, I'm still unhappy having to pay for a defective product.
     
  16. Redlinetire

    Redlinetire Icon

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    Jul 24, 2007
    I guess I don't blame DirecTV completely.

    Lots of users of the TivoHD complain of the exact same problem.

    Cable, FIOS, Dish, DirecTV - people are reporting this everywhere.

    It's tough to blame them for not following a standard that doesn't exist.
    And it's not like they're doing it on purpose.

    But still it's annoying as all get out...and they are the ones that are going to have to fix it...
     
  17. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    Sep 3, 2004
    I was watching Mitt Romney's speech this morning - good speech - and the sync was bad on CNN-HD. I switched over to MSNBC. After the speech, I switched back to CNN and saw something I've seen before. The sync was different for the talking head in Texas and the talking head in Georgia. The anchor in Atlanta was closer but still off a bit.

    At this point this is getting to be bush league, no pun intended. No matter what errors DirecTV and/or my HR-20 are introducing, the sync is off from the start. Good work, CNN.

    I've said it before but this is exactly what we saw back in 2001. It seems we haven't learned much since then. :rolleyes:
     
  18. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    Aug 20, 2007
    I have to say it's clear to me now that D* is actually looking at the problem. They do seem to be adjusting the sync "on the fly" (mostly during commercials). It used to be if a channel went out of sync it would be out of sync for the rest of the evening, and now it is at times fixed (and sadly other times broken) at a commercial break.

    This indicates to me they are aware of it and working on it, even if they don't have it right yet.
     
  19. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    Aug 20, 2007
    That is not the problem. Even with a sync signal in the audio/video (as HDMI 1.3 has), it only helps your system preserve the sync, since the audio/video signal is not intact end-to-end, and instead is regenerated from compressed data inside your DVR.

    The real problem I presume is the lack of a standard. DirectTV is sending the signals up to the satellite (and back down) in H.264 format w/Dolby Digital audio. The ATSC standard (for example) doesn't cover H.264. So DirecTV had to make their own system, and it doesn't seem they got it right yet.
     
  20. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    Sep 3, 2004
    Somebody certainly is. CNN HD was dead nuts on tonight.
     
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