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Bill Cosby "Gets It".

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Richard King, May 21, 2004.

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  1. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

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    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38565
    As the article states, these statements were made during a speech commemorating Brown Vs. Bd of Education.
     
  2. TNGTony

    TNGTony Hall Of Fame

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    You know that now the "black community" will label Bill Cosby as an Uncle Tom or an Oreo or some other derrogatory crap to explain how he could have said such a thing. Never mind it's the truth. That has nothing to do with. Don't cloud the issue with facts.

    See ya
    Tony
     
  3. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Bill Cosby has consistently pushed this advice for many years. It is nothing new for him and he has drawn little, if any, criticism from the black community - perhaps because they know he is right.
     
  4. jonstad

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    I have great respect for Mr. Cosby. I do think it a little simplistic however to lay the blame 100% at the feet of "the lower economic people". And frankly I believe Cosby would agree. I suspect his remarks were a well-aimed admonition to groups like the NAACP who seem to spend most of their time on politics and discrimination lawsuits and devote very little if any attention to addressing the real problems and concerns of those they purport to represent.

    I live in what is probably a rural microcosm of the type of culture Cosby describes. A LITERAL island of 6-7000 people where the common vernacular is pidgen, basically Hawaiian ebonics. Most everybody speaks it to one extent or another, certainly anyone who was born and raised here CAN speak it. And just as Cosby implies for his case, often it is ALL they speak. And in these cases, for the parents too, it is their only form of verbal communication. Some of course can converse in the King's English as well as pidgen, myself included. After sixteen years now, I have become quite adept at understanding and communication without benefit of articles, tense and/or sentence structure.:p But the difference is, not whether you were born or raised here or if you are "the lower economic people", but for children AND parents alike, the level and quality of education.

    The islands with more population have their share of people who can only speak pidgen too. It has been joked that the U of Hawaii is the ONLY state university where you can graduate never speaking anything but pidgen. And although probably an overstatement, is more soberingly ironic then funny. But the situation is more pronounced here with less tourism and therefore less contact with those who don't take pidgen for granted.

    When you are immersed in pidgen, or any other dialect, there doesn't seem to be a problem even if you don't have the ability to converse in proper English. And my business is certainly better because I can explain AT60 and Digital Home Plan IN pidgen.:D And I'm sure no such problems are readily apparent in the "lower economic people's" neighborhoods Cosby refers too either. Everyone can converse within their own social strata with no difficulty at all. It is when one is forced out of that environment that the stark reality of not being able to communicate effectively hits home. I have known many young people who have left my island for school or opportunity. Those whom I knew could speak without resort to pidgen I had little concern over. But those who could ONLY converse in pidgen, I had great reservations for. And in fact, most of these have returned, tails between their legs, having failed to be successful outside where pidgen is little understood. And my heart aches for them because I know they often probably couldn't understand or be understood in California or Utah or Indiana. And I know that sometimes they were laughed at and ridiculed.:(

    Now naturally there are Hawaiian counterparts to the NAACP. We have the state agency, Office of Hawaiian Affairs(OHA), and private entities like Bishop Estate which runs Kamehameha schools for Hawaiian children. But just like the NAACP they are much too engaged in politics and often frivolous lawsuits to see the forest for the trees. Their solution is to promote "Hawaiian language immersion schools".:nono2: The rationale is the children will learn racial pride by learning fluent Hawaiian and learn to speak English at home. Of course what happens is they learn Hawaiian at school and PIDGEN at home and are now well versed in TWO useless languages outside of our little archipelago.:shrug:

    So again, the situation is more a failure of education and institutions then of "lower economic people". Almost by definition, "lower economic people" don't have the education to even know they have a problem let alone identify it. When OHA and Bishop Estate conclude the problem with Hawaiians is that they don't speak Hawaiian and when the NAACP suggests "ebonics" is a language or that "rap" is a high art form rather then just the latest variance of pop music, they do a disservice not only to their own people but to society as a whole. And maybe worst of all, their inane demands hogtie a public education system that is already failing on too many levels.
    :soapbox:
    :rant:
    ;)
     
  5. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    My late partner introduced me to the language. Even though he was a haoli, he grew up on Oahu (in Wahiawa) and went to public school there. There it was a very self-segregated society, with each ethnic group pretty much sticking to themselves with little interaction other than the occassional "terf war". For him, when he was in high school it was especially dangerous to be gay and dating a native Hawaiian guy. Double jeopardy!

    In many ways, I think us white 48'ers have a similar disadvantage, just in another aspect. We tend to be just as self-isolating and lack little knowledge of other ethnic groups other than the stereotypes. Some black friends have remarked that they grew up hearing some "white jokes" and believing various untruths and generalities about white people. It is only when they and we let those things go and go out and experience other cultures and peoples for ourselves that we learn differently.
     
  6. Tusk

    Tusk Back in the Game DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Hey Bogy, were not going to let Bill Cosby get away with spewing his hate filled rhetoric are we. I mean where is the love man. ;)
     
  7. Bogy

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    I'll let Bill criticize Black parents. I'll stick to criticizing white parents.
     
  8. Halfsek

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    Let it be said and heard... I think I pretty much agreed with Jonstad's whole post.

    Bogy... your turn now. :)
     
  9. Richard King

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    Why would you not criticize Black parents if you see a problem? Would you criticize Hispanic parents? Would you criticize Asian parents? I don't get it.
     
  10. RichW

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    In many ways we are NOT a melting pot.

    Last night I presided over an annual awards night for public school students who have been voted by their teachers and peers and best exemplifying good citizenship in their respective schools. There wer five schools represented, each with 5 students being honored. With the ethnic mix of students, one could equate the attendance to a mini UN meeting. However, I noticed that the various ethnic groups tended to segregate themselves, even when we had refreshements after the ceremonies. It was further interesting, however, that the kids themselves did more mixing than did the parents and friends, which gave me cause to wonder at what point do people start withdrawing back into their ethnic comfort zones. The kids, especially the younger ones, we perfectly happy playing and talking with "other" kids.

    Next Wednesday I will be attending another citizenship awards night for 11 schools in an adjacent geographic area to last night's schools. It will include a couple of "rich" schools where most ot the students come from upper-class families, but the area is also culturally diverse. It will be interesting to observe if the social segeration occurs that night as well.
     
  11. Tusk

    Tusk Back in the Game DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I think that it's perfectly natural for people to migrate towards others like themselves. There is nothing wrong with wanting to talk to and hang out with others who share our same backgrounds and interests.

    I don't think this situation indicates that the younger children were happy being with the "other" kids and the adults were unhappy being with the "other" adults. It's simply that young kids main interests in life are playing tag, trying to gross each other out or talking about their favorite x-box game. As they mature, they become interested in their heritage, music, art, various fields of study, television, etc. Most of these interests are learned from their families and their neighborhood friends. Therefore, as adults, people seek out others who have the same interests, which the majority of the time falls along ethnic lines.

    That's the problem with the melting pot concept. People like to live and be around other people like themselves. That doesn't mean they dislike other ethnic groups (unfortunately some do :().
     
  12. toenail

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    He's wise. Because the wrong motives might be attributed to him. Probably the worst thing anyone can be accused of these days is being racist. It's simply not worth the risk.
     
  13. RichW

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    Yep, we agree again. The N-word is used more and more these days by gangsta rappers, but, of course, anyone else using it would be labelled as a racist.
     
  14. Richard King

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    I don't think you need to use the "N" word to criticize a person's parenting abilities (or any other "ability" for that matter).

    The problem with this is that if people are afraid to "constructively criticize/help" another person when they are obviously headed "down the wrong track" nothing will ever change.
     
  15. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    The only minority where it is still acceptable to publically demean or malign is now gay people. Can't call someone the n-word or use any other racially offensive language, but even congressmen and religious officials are free to use the most offensive epithets directed at gay people and are even encouraged to do so.
     
  16. RichW

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    I was also going to point out the f-word (the three-letter one, not the four letter one) which I actually hear some gay people call each other. I think, in that case, it is a strategy of "take back the word and own it".

    However, how come you never hear the nickname "Whitey" any more either? :)

    Another interesting term is "cracker". When I lived in Florida, that appellation was proudly claimed and proclaimed by native Floridians (I think Georgians also sometimes use that term of native endearment). But I once got into an argumetn on this very forum with someone who claimed it was derogatory.
     
  17. Richard King

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    I ordered some chili a while ago at Wendy's. Upon receiving the order, the nice young Black lady behind the counter stated and I quote: "cracker". To which I responded: "Don't call me cracker". Both of us laughed and she handed me a package of saltines. Being a Minnesotan transplanted to Florida, I still haven't quite figured out what a cracker really is.
     
  18. JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Amen!! Regardless of race, it baffles me to see someone sit back and let another go down the toilet because they are affraid of offending them or being acused of butting in. I'll roll the dice and take that risk any day!

    For those of you who think the Coz is a righteous dude, think again. About 20 years ago I saw him play in a benefit tennis match, coed no less. All the a--hole did was belittle his partner in front of a few thousand people who paid good money to be entertained. Nice!!
     
  19. Capmeister

    Capmeister Large Hairless ApeCutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    Well, how very racist.
     
  20. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Yeah, and I'm still not comfortable with its use in that context, either. Those of us old enough to have suffered real abuse with that word at the core wince when hearing anyone say it, gay or straight. But I even hear it now on broadcast television shows. You don't hear the n-word or other racial epithets, but it seems it is OK to say vile things about gay people. In the newspapers I've read even worse, with elected officials using words like "fudgepacker", "polesmoker" and worse, with characterizations that gay people are all child molesters and predators. When was the last time you heard an elected official call black people "spearchucker" and state all black men were out to rape white women? They'd be tarred and feathered, but it's well and good when they spew venom, many using the cover of religion, against gay people.
    I think the "whitey" and "cracker" terms were never very effective epithets because most white people never perceived a threat from them. They just didn't matter, especially because they were coming from a minority which many whites didn't think mattered to begin with, so anything they said went in one ear and out the other.
     
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