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Brain-Damaged Woman Talks After 20 Years

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Richard King, Feb 12, 2005.

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  1. RJS1111111

    RJS1111111 Icon/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    non sequitur
     
  2. deraz

    deraz Daydreamer DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Correct, but when there is no medical hope for dogs, they are put to sleep.
     
  3. cdru

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    I wondered when RJS1111111 was going to pop back in here with your press releases and CSNNews reports.
     
  4. pjmrt

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    no. It supported MS claims of PVS. It found no evidence for abuse in the hospital/hospice. It contridicted MS's claims that the PVS/collapse was due to an eating disorder. The "why" of Terri's collapse is still unknow - could be foul play, could be something else. And yes - those wonderful tapes you mention. If the pathologist is correct, how DID she do that? Could it be that the blindness (and perhaps the atriphy of the brain he also referenced possibly be due to the starvation/dehydration ordeal they put her through and not the condition prior to removal of the feeding tube?
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Interesting that you start the line with 'no' and then agree with what I wrote.
    And of course, you did that too ... more straw grasping ...
    Could have been alien abduction. Don't rule out anything. :rolleyes: Ignore the fact that NONE of the medical professionals that 'saved' Terri's life in 1990 and treated her in the months following reported any evidence of foul play.
    Random chance? Give me enough video tape and I'll show you a dog telling the difference between red and green. (Dogs are colorblind.) Give me enough tape and I'll make a horse appear to talk like Ed.

    She didn't do that. She APPEARED to a overly optimistic and BIASED audience to do that, but she didn't respond to the visual stimuli. Don't forget that there where two independent people appointed to be Terri's advocates and those people spent HOURS by her beside looking for any sign of response. Not liars for the Shindler family, but independent people free to agree with either side of the argument.

    JL
     
  6. billpa

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    What do you mean it "could be foul play"? How can you say that? You have NOTHING! NO PROOF!
    You should stop slandering Michael Schiavo. Hasn't this guy been through enough? He lost his wife, had to watch her in a vegetative state for 15 years, had his parents-in-law and their family turn on him. He was hounded by the press, libled ad nauseam on national TV, and was all but called a lying, abusing, murderer on many occasions. When an autopsy comes out and scientifically disputes all the evil sent his way, you'd think it would stop. But it doesn't. Science means so little in this country anymore, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
     
  7. djlong

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    I have to agree that it was terrible to let Terri die of thirst. They're right that we don't treat dogs that way. We don't force them to live as vegetables and we'd be arrested if we did.

    Oh - and that line about them being non-partisan? Maybe if they say that enough times, they'll believe it.
     
  8. deraz

    deraz Daydreamer DBSTalk Gold Club

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  9. bmarkel

    bmarkel Mentor

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    I never suggested that someone in that condition would feel things the same way we would. However it is ridiculous to assume that she felt no pain.


    I am not sure where you read that in my post since I didn't mention rehabilitation. However I don't believe that Terri would have been rehabilitated to the state she was in before she collasped. That being said, their are thiusands of people in rehabilitation today that will never go back to their original pre injury state who are not being killed. Rehabilitation should have been tried at some point during the past 15 years.
     
  10. bmarkel

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    Just as many experts state that she felt pain as experts say she didn't feel pain.


    The autopsy also stated that there was no sigh of an eating disorder. That was stated by MS. So by your way of thinking MS was proven wrong.
     
  11. bmarkel

    bmarkel Mentor

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    Found no proof of = inconclusive.
     
  12. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    The autopsy also stated that there was no sigh of an eating disorder.

    Personally I wouldn't expect there to be any proof anyway. I certainly don't know of any technology that could tell what I was eating 10 years ago.

    One might be able to tell something of someone's diet for a short period of time (a month or so) using hair and other samples. Likewise if she had a problem while growing up you might find evidence in her bone growth and the like of some deficiency. But whatever the cause of her heart failure, her body certainly would have healed itself since then given the balanced nutritional diet she was given since then.
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There was more in the autopsy to support the Schiavo side of the argument than the Schindler's side. But don't let that stop you. :D

    JL
     
  14. cdru

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    Whew. That was close. Just when we thought that maybe this saga can finally get put to rest, the controversy fires right back up. According to CNN:
    Do the prosecutors and governor of Florida have NOTHING better to do then to chase a 15+ year old case that will go nowhere but fan the flames of the controversy. You'd think that someone might have already questioned him about it. And I'm sure that Mr. Bush can recount the exact timeframe for all key events in his life, 15 years after he lived it.
     
  15. ntexasdude

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    I saw this in my local paper today. I don't see what purpose this serves. Could they possibly charge MS with something after all this time has passed?. It would seem the statue of limitations would have run out on everything except murder. Sounds to me like Jeb is on a witch hunt. :confused:
     
  16. pjmrt

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    As I understand it - there would be evidence, especially forensic evidence. That kind of eating disorder, particularly if it was severe enough to cause the collapse, should leave tell-tale signature in tissue damage - especially in the heart (which seemed to work quite well up until it was starved to death). The doctor (who should know) said pretty certainly there was no evidence of an eating disorder - which I would assume especially applies for one severe enough to cause the collapse in the first place.
     
  17. pjmrt

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    I don't know - when does the clock start to tick on a crime if it occured. If they can prove (don't know if they can, but for argument's sake, lets assume it) that MS causes his wife's collapse in the first place - and she ultimately died from that condition, albeit many years later and with a court's blessing can he be charged for murder (2nd degree, manslaughter - and I suppose if they could prove he intended it, 1st degree)? Can withholding rehabilitation and treatment be considered spousal abuse (there's evidence that he did that, just after he won a civil lawsuit with money specifically set aside to do that)? There was a case in the news yesterday where the daughter of a couple was taken away from the parents and place in state custody. The parent's "crime" was that after chemo for their daughter's cancer, they feared tissue damage and severe side effects from an additional bout of radiation therpy which (at the time did not look like it was necessary - although the doctors wanted it). Hindsight it turned out it was needed (sadly) - but they were only exercising their parental rights. If the state can step in (on) a case like that - how much more in MS's case where it is not at all clear he had the best in mind for his ex-wife.
     
  18. Danny R

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    This is the latest trick by the parents to stir up controversy, as this was a big portion of their letter yesterday about the medical report. They are zeroing in on one or two specific statements (one given on a talk show of all things) where Michael gave a time, once saying 4:30 and another time 5am.

    Of course they are ignoring that in every disposition he states something along the lines of calling 911 immediately, such as:

    July 27, 1992: "SCHIAVO: I was – I was to her within two seconds. I seen she stopped breathing. I ran to the phone, called 911 within five seconds and panicked. " or

    January 27, 2000 "I turned her over going, “Terri, Terri. You okay?” She kind of had this gurgling noise. I laid her down and ran over and called 911."

    Personally I think this is just more garbage from the parents. If Michael actually could remember the time clearly I'd be surprised... I certainly don't go looking at a clock first thing during any emergency. :nono2:

    As I understand it - there would be evidence, especially forensic evidence. That kind of eating disorder, particularly if it was severe enough to cause the collapse, should leave tell-tale signature in tissue damage - especially in the heart (which seemed to work quite well up until it was starved to death).

    I think your understanding is wrong there. The cause of the heart attack was presumed to be a potassium imbalance causing ventricular fibrillation (heart doesn't beat in sync) , not the usual causes such as clogged vessels which block flow of blood to the heart itself (myocardial infarction).

    Potassium, if you don't know, is a necessary component for heart cell signalling. The cells of the heart beat in sync because they are kept in time by these signals. The lack of potassium causes the heart cells to lose their rhythm and beat erratically. There is no "heart damage" as you would expect in someone with blocked vessels caused by fats.

    On this I know a little something, as I spent over a year measuring K signal levels in heart cells.

    And FYI, there is scant evidence in the autopsy that she even had a heart attack in the past, but this is undisputed, as she was found by medical examiners in a state of ventricular fibrillation.
     
  19. ntexasdude

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    Yes, that little girl was in Texas. Quite interesting but certainly not the first of it's kind.

    I saw a story this morning on the news about a 26 year pregnant woman who had suffered a stroke and was pronounced brain dead. The husband had decided to keep his wife alive artificially so the baby could be born. Very, very sad.:crying_sa
     
  20. pjmrt

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    Well, I would so assume that the medical examiner (an MD) would too. His comments from his statements:
    Terri was "heavy" as a teenager, according to Thogmartin, and had lost more than 100 pounds after graduation. The eating disorder diagnosis was based on that fact and a low potassium level measured during a blood test about an hour after Terri was first hospitalized.

    "Her low potassium level appears to be the main piece of evidence purporting to show that she had an eating disorder," Thogmartin said. But he noted that she received numerous medical treatments when she arrived at the hospital that would have lowered that measurement.

    "Thus the main piece of evidence supporting the diagnosis of bulimia nervosa is suspect," he concluded.

    "Once you eliminate the potassium problem, which is known in bulimics, you end up with a 26-year-old who used to be healthy, who now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Thogmartin said. "If that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."

    If she had an eating disorder, there should have been other symptoms present which were not.
     
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