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BSG: 01/16/09 Discussion (SPOILERS PERMITTED)

Discussion in 'TV Show Talk' started by Indiana627, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. petergaryr

    petergaryr Passed away April 24, 2010

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    Well, humans have carbon based brains and up to this point Cylons have silica based ones. If they found a way to use a different base material, then that begs the question of "what is a human"?

    The premise has always been that the Cylons were created by man, they evolved and then rebelled. Funny thing is that they evolved into beings that look like the ones they want to destroy. The ultimate irony would be that they eventually hit upon technology to actually create a human "in their own likeness".

    They then evolve into the very thing they both hated and envied: fully human.

    They'd need a lot of therapy to sort all that out.
     
  2. Wire Paladin

    Wire Paladin Legend

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    Great episode but very dark. When Dee was blasted with the gun, I wasn't sure who killed her and after several replays decided it was her and all I could say is wow.

    Starbuck finding her body is an interesting twist and again all you can do is ask what next? Interesting that the Cylon had a look of fear/panic when he saw Starbuck's body in the crashed viper.

    Adama and the President need to pull it together and move on. Looks like the fleet and the Cylons both need a new direction.

    Questions

    1. Is this really earth or a Cylon world that resembled earth?

    2. In the old series, there was a group of higher beings called the Angels that help the humans. Could they be involved in the creation of the new Starbuck and her viper? Her new viper will really bright/shiny. In the old series, every time they encountered the Angels everything seemed to be very bright or glowing.
     
  3. petergaryr

    petergaryr Passed away April 24, 2010

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    The current BSG has given a nod to several elements of TOS with the exception of the Ship of Lights and Count Iblis.

    I'm still thinking that somehow the SOL will be introduced into the plot at some point.
     
  4. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Great question. Maybe the whole planet is a mind game, maybe Starbuck was captured by the Cylons and this whole second Starbuck was grown just to be put there so it would mess with her mind.

    One thing that has always bothered me is how easy or hard it is to tell if someone is a Cylon. This has been very inconsistent. At first, it seemed like an easy and fun test. Sleep with one,and if the spine glows red, then it's a Cylon.

    Then Baltar had a Cylon detector that worked, except I don't remember if it ever got tested fleet-wide so it certainly didn't have a chance to find "the four" Cylons (actually Anders wasn't there yet.)

    Pres. Roslin had a remission due to an injection of Cylon DNA, which seems to be different from ours in some way.

    Now, the Cylons themselves can test 2,000-year-old bones (which, don't start, should have long ago decayed in moist soil but...) and say they are Cylon.

    Still there doesn't seem to be a simple way to say, someone is or isn't a Cylon.
     
  5. jhollan2

    jhollan2 Godfather

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    They did take her ovary in the first season... and I recall a comment that the viper had come off the showroom floor...

    Clone? They havent stayed away from other taboo subjects. In defining humanity I can see them throwing in that twist as well.
     
  6. jkane

    jkane Icon

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    Time travel! No one has brought this up yet. All SciFi shows lead to Time Travel. This is to prepare us real earth humans for the next big technology leap when the aliens show us how to travel in time for real. Except it's not aliens, it's us from our own future. OUCH! My head hurts. :grin:

    Back to BSG.

    I had thought Ellen way back when. I forget why now, but there was something she did or said early on that lead me to think that. I was one of the few votes for her to be one of the original 6 when we had that poll going a couple years ago. She makes sense.

    But ... I think she's alive somewhere yet too! There is a resurrection ship somewhere near by and that's how the 5 survived. They resurrect. Maybe they don't even need a ship. Maybe they re-incarnate, and that takes a lifetime for the child to be born followed by them looking like themselves as an adult.

    Hold on to your hats! That child they all have been fighting over is actually Ellen re-incarnated! :D
     
  7. Indiana627

    Indiana627 Hall Of Fame

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    At various times throughout the show, various characters have said "all this has happened before, and all this will happen again" (or something to that affect).

    Maybe what that means is that skin job Cylons were indigenous to Earth, and as they evolved, they created an artificial life form to help them out with daily life, and they called them Humans. Well after time, the Humans rebelled against their creators (the Cylons) and nuked Earth, forcing the Humans deep into the galaxy to find a new home.

    Along their journey, they scattered and formed the 12 Colonies, and the Gods they refer to are their Cylon creators. Over the centuries, they somewhat forgot their past and created the "toaster" model Cylon as some sort of nostalgic nod to their past, never really conscience of what doing that meant.

    Now for the "all this will happen again" part, the Cylons have now rebelled against their creators, the Humans, destroyed their 'home worlds,' and forced them deep into the galaxy to find a new home. The only part of their ancient history they remember is about a planet called Earth, and therefore that's what they search for.

    I don't know, I guess I'm just thinking too much about this, but it does make a little sense (to me at least).
     
  8. petergaryr

    petergaryr Passed away April 24, 2010

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    You know what? I like it!

    The only chink in that theory is that Cylon brains apparently are silica, not carbon based. Not to say your theory couldn't work. Maybe when they came to Earth, there wasn't enough indigenous silica and they turned to a more common element, carbon, as a substitute.
     
  9. Jimmy 440

    Jimmy 440 Hall Of Fame

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    Monmouth...
    So does this mean we are all Cylons ? <lol>
     
  10. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    I don't remember this being said. Was there a particular episode you remember?
     
  11. jadebox

    jadebox Godfather

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    They did say that they only found about 200 skeletons over the whole planet. They didn't imply that all the bones survived.

    But .... they can just examine bones and tell if they are Cylon? If it's that easy why couldn't they create a test to use on living samples?

    But, it was stuff during the previous episode that really bothered me. Like the idea that everyone got excited about Starbuck's Viper pointing the way to Earth even though they all said it was a stretch. The humans and Cylons went from just about shooting each other to smithereens to holding hands and sailing off to find Earth together in about 12 seconds.

    -- Roger
     
  12. petergaryr

    petergaryr Passed away April 24, 2010

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    According to Battlestar Wiki

    It was back in the mini-series pilot episode when Adama was talking to Leoben at the Ragnar Anchorage station who was getting sick from exposure to radiation that affected his silica brain.

    Then, there is this from Galactica Wikia:

    "Many decades before the fall of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol, a wealthy Caprican computer engineer created sentient robots that came to be known as "cybernetic life-form nodes," or "Cylons." The technology behind the self-aware artificial intelligence software program of the Cylons involved artificial neural networks composed of pathways of silica-based relays. The silica pathways were what created the artificial consciousness of a Cylon. The computational consciousness software program that was a Cylon mind mimicked the functions of a human brain processing the 'software' of human thought-which appears to have linear sequential aspects, parallel processing aspects, and also neural cooperative hierarchical caching and even quantum processing aspects. So these sentient machines became the first self-aware and even self-reflective machines."
     
  13. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Hmm. Interesting.

    I accept the first reference as it clearly took place from within the series, albeit very very early. However, the second is external and I don't know if the writers accept it as canonical.
     
  14. djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    Dualla's death was certainly a "holy frak!" moment.

    My girlfriend was *totally* puzzled as to why she did it when she seemed to happy and hopeful that maybe she and Lee could patch things up.

    I explained it to her. My adoptive mother commited suicide - going out on "her" terms, so to speak.

    Dualla was happy. For that one brief moment, she was VERY happy and she wanted to hold on to it forever. The fleet was in chaos, their enemies are now their friends, Earth turns out to be radioactive waste.. Everything was in the trashcan except whatever it was between her and her (admittedly estranged) husband. The last thing she saw was her relection in the mirror - smiling from the events of the evening.

    I don't think she wanted to go back to the rest of the existence that was waiting for her.
     
  15. Getteau

    Getteau Icon

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    So if Ellen is an aged 6, do you think Tigh is an aged Leoben or Aaron?

    The other thing I found odd was the whole scene where Chief's shadow was burned into the wall when Earth was nuked. During the scene, there were lots of other people around that didn't look anything like the other Cylons. So there must have been other Cylon models or there were humans on Earth when it was nuked.
     
  16. say-what

    say-what Active Member

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    Ron Moore has stated that Ellen is the 5th Cylon
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0120-battlestar-watcherjan20,0,4993751.story

    As for whether this is Earth, there may be a question as to whether this is "our" Earth, but here's how Ron Moore addresses things:

    And from a longer version of this interview:
    The interview is interesting - read the second link, much more detail
     
  17. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Well that settles that then. I'm a little disappointed that it's Ellen. It does explain why she ended up being saved in the first place.
     
  18. jhollan2

    jhollan2 Godfather

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    I dont think that ellen and 6 are one and the same, even if they do look alike. That would throw the final 5 argument into a tizzy. But whats to be made of the pregnant 6?
     
  19. Kentstater

    Kentstater Godfather

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    I have always thought that the end will be Lee Adama = Adam and the fifth Cylon will = Eve. But then I saw Dee as that fifth Cylon.
     
  20. RasputinAXP

    RasputinAXP Kwisatz Haderach of Cordcuttery

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    That second reference is directly from the Caprica miniseries that's coming...this fall? I forget. It shows the creation of the Cylons and Adama's ... grandfather? I forget.
     

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