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BUG REPORT: Can't tune OTA w/o PSIP?

Discussion in 'Other HD Receiver Support Forum (811, 921, 942)' started by peterd, Jan 17, 2004.

  1. peterd

    peterd AllStar

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    Dec 16, 2003
    Bogney -

    What do you see (if anything) that looks different between the channels the 921 gets and channel 40? The HiPix does give a fair amount of info on the OSD as I recall.
     
  2. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Hey, that is great! If the 921 can't pick up channel 40 in NYC, then by all means, tell us what you find! Even if the 921 does pick it up, it would be interesting, it would at least tell us the case w/o PSIP where it does work.
     
  3. Bogney

    Bogney Legend

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    Jul 11, 2003
    My 921 does not work with WXTV-DT, channel 40.

    The only significantly different information about channel 40 on the Hipix is the channel ID line:

    ATSC CH 40.1

    For comparison here is what the CBS station says:

    WCBS-DT 2.1 (56)

    If anyone wants a CD of a sample of the stream for channel 40 to analyze, I can send it to you.
     
  4. Jerry G

    Jerry G Icon

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    Jul 12, 2003
    There are two channels in Los Angeles I'm having difficulty adding. One can't be added at all. I don't think either has PSIP information. Both can be added to my 811, but neither has a channel ID or get mapped to their NTSC channel number as the other channels do. So it may be a lack of PSIP, or incorrect PSIP, that is causing the problems. BTW, the channels are 66 and 43 for those in Los Angeles.
     
  5. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    I just called Dish and told them about this problem, not being able to add a digital channel to the list, even though the signal strength is at 100 (whatever that means).

    Anyway, I asked them to give me a free, local channel satellite version of it because I couldn't get it otherwise, and it is the 921's fault, not mine.

    They told me that they couldn't give me a free local channel, and the next sentence they said that the problem I was reporting was not on their list of known problems... I didn't get much farther then that with this CSR, it was like talking to a brick wall somehow.

    Anyway, it doesn't appear they know about this. Has anyone else tried calling them?? I just want to watch Enterprise on Wednesday nights, and I can't do it with the 921. And I don't want to pay extra to get a bunch of compressed SD locals that I don't need, except for UPN.
     
  6. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

    156
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    Aug 23, 2002
    I just installed my 921 tonight - same problem with KBHK.

    I hope the Dish engineers really are reading this forum and will get around to addressing this bug (it clearly is a bug, since so many of us are having the exact same problem).

    What else can we do?
     
  7. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    I think it is a good idea to actually call dish as well. They apparently need a few call in complaints before the CSRs recognize this as an official bug! I would at least like to get it on their recognized "list", whatever that means....
     
  8. Tom Foolery

    Tom Foolery New Member

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    Jan 29, 2004
    Yeah, I have the same problem with ATSC ch 30 in Portland Oregon. I get a signal strength of 100+ and still can’t save the channel.
     
  9. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

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    Aug 23, 2002

    Let's all call folks. Not being able to receive all the OTA channels we have so painstakingly set ourselves up to receive (with antennas and preamps and rotors and whatnot), is a major bug in my book.

    -Keith
     
  10. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

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    Aug 23, 2002
    Jsanders (and anyone else in the Bay Area) - do you have any problems with KCSM OTA reception? I can crash my 921 at will by just tuning to KCSM OTA. I get good signal strength readings (100+) and I have no problems with it on my Samsung receiver.

    Thanks,
    -Keith
     
  11. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    Hi Keith,

    Can you tell me what channel KCSM is? I will try it out tonight and let you know if it works for me, or whether it is DOA....


    Jeff
     
  12. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

    156
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    Aug 23, 2002
    Hi Jeff,

    You can see all the bay area digital channels here:

    http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

    KCSM is 43.x.

    Funny thing is that sometimes I can get 43.2 or 43.3, but 43.1 will crash my 921 every time.

    Thanks,
    -Keith
     
  13. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    I'm having a weird experience with it. I switched to 043-1. I got a blank screen, however, the 921 wasn't wrecked yet...

    I tried to swtich to 043-2, but I found it wasn't in the channel list. So, I brought up the "Local Channels" menu to scan it in.

    Now, I get this message:

    "Error 603

    Point Dish can not get the selected tuner (Satellite Input 1)."

    I clicked "Okay", then tried to "Add DTV". I typed "43", but it does not show any signal strength, then I tried some other channels, they don't show any signal strength.

    I exited the menu, and I was no longer on channel 043-1, it said:

    "077-0 Unknown Record G[V] UKN"

    The time and date are correct though. Usually that gets messed up!

    I was able to switch back to Discovery HD. I was able to switch back to OTA CBS.

    Very weird stuff, and I can't view 043-1, but it didn't completely bring down the machine. I can view the other channels afterward, however, every time I try to go to the "Local Channels" menu, it says that same message as above, thene exits to the Unknown Record channel.

    When it crashes for you, do you have to reboot??
     
  14. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

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    Aug 23, 2002
    Very weird!

    I don't get all that stuff - I just get a black screen when I go to 43-1. I think that if I then go to a satellite channel straight away I can avoid a reboot. But if I go to 43-1, then try to channel surf to 43-2, then 43-3, all I get is black screens, and after that every channel (Sat or OTA) is just a black screen. At that point it's a pull out the plug reboot.

    There seems to be something funny about the KCSM signal?
     
  15. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004

    I completely agree. Something weird about KCSM, and KBHK for that matter. I wish I could tell the developers what is unique about that signal so they can put it on their 8VSB simulator to try it out, but they don't print out any error messages as to why it won't add KBHK, or why it goes berzerk on KCSM!

    This means it may take a while before this gets fixed!
     
  16. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

    156
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    Aug 23, 2002
    I wonder if it will ever get fixed, unless it's a consequence of some of the other more general issues there are with the OTA tuner, which are easier for the engineers to diagnose.

    It is a 921 problem though, my Samsung OTA receiver gets KBHK and KCSM just fine. So there's something different about these transmissions that the 921 is sensitive to, whereas the Samsung isn't.

    They'll need to come out here with a 921 and an antenna and oscilloscope :)
     
  17. jsanders

    jsanders Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 21, 2004
    My Dish 6000 works fine too, it is a 921 problem.

    They don't need to come out here though to find the problem. At lest for the KBHK problem, they just need to print out a diagnostic message when it tries to "Add DTV", which prints out the PSIP data stream or something like that. Then, we need to write down on this message board what it says. That would give them an indication of what edge case they are looking at.....

    They can probably do something similar with KCSM
     
  18. TVBob

    TVBob Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Dec 19, 2003
  19. keitheva

    keitheva Legend

    156
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    Aug 23, 2002
    Read this today on the HDTV-in-SFbay newsgroup:

    <<<
    Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:00:32 -0800
    From: "Hanns Ullrich" <hanns@KCSM.net>
    Subject: Re: Why can't I receive ch 43?

    We are having trouble with our DTV encoding equipment as well as our PSIP generator at KCSM. We currently are broadcasting 2 channels, and depending on the receiver, they may be found at 43.1 & 43.2 or 43.2 and 43.4 All our encoders are having a firmware upgrade this Friday, and should solve most issues. Thanks for your patients.

    -Hanns
    >>>

    That may explain it. Have to try again after Friday.

    Cheers,
    -Keith
     

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