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Cable/Sat companys losing customers.

Discussion in 'General Satellite Discussion' started by CarolinaGuy79, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You didn't refute any part of his message, though...

    IF eventually most people (or all) abandon "pay TV" cable/satellite and go to "free TV" on the Internet... then all the content producers will have to either make up that lost revenue somewhere OR stop producing the content.

    Meanwhile... I'm not sure how you are certain that "more people than ever" are listening to music. Maybe based on pure population numbers... but radio stations have been around for a LONG time and that's been a way to listen to music essentially for free for longer than my father has been around!

    But IF everyone stopped buying music on CDs, albums, tapes, digital downloads... then there would be no reason for anyone to make music to play on the free radio...

    The irony is always smacking me in the face... at how people don't want to pay anything for anything... BUT everyone wants to be paid for what they do! So, you don't want to pay for music or TV but if you were an actor or musician you'd want to be paid... how would that work?
     
  2. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    Stewart, in 2010, the #1 selling artist any given week sells about 20% as many CDs as the top selling artist in 2000.

    So, yes, I am saying that content providers will eventually have to accept less money for their craft.

    Artists have had to offset the lost revenue by touring more than they have ever done so.

    But the WSJ ran a cover story this summer indicating that the gross from top tours during 1H10 declined significantly from the same period last year, in large part because concertgoers have begun to resist steep price hikes.
     
  3. cariera

    cariera Icon

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    Sorry to respond this late, I am still in a funk over watching the Titans lose.

    As your argument states, the music industry revenue has declined yet you contend that there consumer base has expanded (more people listening to music than ever before). So how are these people getting their music? Legal outlets like ITunes or the artist's label and paying money for it, or are they getting their music for free through sharing and some internet websites.

    I would contend for your premise to be correct it is the latter. I also contend that if the music industry could effectively charge for every song that each consumer is downloading, their revenues would be up, not down.

    Since, at this time, there is no fool-proof method in place to ensure this, the music industry is losing revenue and considering it an acceptable loss.

    My argument was that if cable/sat subscribers disappeared, and the internet became the dominant medium through which televison programs are delivered, the content providers would still want to maximize their revenues. This would lead to a model in which pricing is driven by the consumers demand and still subject to increase as it does today with the cable/sat delivery model.

    The one notable and potentially beneficial side effect could be true a la carte pricing structure for channels. Be careful what you wish for.:)
     
  4. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Comparing industries of music and TV is so ridiculous here. Streaming, CD/DVD sales, touring, etc are not comparable.
     
  5. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Kittrell, NC
    You can't make that comparison without qualifying it.

    The #1 rated TV show in 2010 is nowhere near the #1 rated TV show in 1980... because there were many less networks back then.

    Similarly... there are a lot more music producers today than even 10 years ago. The advent of internet and digital delivery has allowed a whole new generation of musicians to much more easily get their music into fans' hands... and each new group that gains some popularity takes some dollars away from another.

    I couldn't possibly buy every CD of ever song that I like today like I could 30 years ago... any more than I could buy every book or watch every TV show. There isn't enough money OR time to try and consume everything with all the choices we have today.

    But people do need to be paid for work... so the more people shift away from the high-revenue methods to "free" internet delivery... the sooner that "free" internet delivery will become less free.
     
  6. BobaBird

    BobaBird EKB Editor

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    Broadcast premier, On Demand
    DVD/BD sales (delayed)
    Comic-con? :D

    The biggest difference would seem to be that the longer form of TV doesn't lend itself to repetitive viewing (those with young'uns may wearily disagree).
     
  7. Glen_D

    Glen_D Legend

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    Yeah, in 1980 there was no Cable TV service in my neighborhood. I can't think of more than five OTA channels that were available in my market back then.

    Today, there are five pay-TV services available in the same neighborhood (two Cable services, Dish, Direct, & AT&T U-verse). Plus, there's FOX, MyNetwork, CW, Telemundo, and Azteca affiliates that weren't available or didn't exist in 1980, plus digital subchannels.
     
  8. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

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    I wonder how long it will be before the FCC requires Netflix to do Emergency Broadcast System alerts?
     
  9. STEELERSRULE

    STEELERSRULE AllStar

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    And let's not forget those of us who time shift nearly everything. This has hugely impacted viewership as well.

    For those who have TIVO, or a Cable DVR(or a cable box? are they sending info to providers as too who is watching what?/for how long?/when?), maybe they are somehow being "counted". But for those of us who have their own store bought DVR's(myself), or HTPC's for recording, they can't estimate/gather that information.

    Personally, I have always felt since the rise of DVR's/VCR's/etc..., when people "recorded more and watched at a later time", that the Nielson ratings are TOTALLY INNACCURATE. Why people still seem to rely on them is beyond me.

    There has got to be a better way to accurately count who is watching what/when. I don't know how the math would work, but I have always felt the Nielson ratings have become "ancient/outdated", and a new more accurate system needs to be put in it's place.

    Is anyone posting here a part of the Nielson system, or knows someone who does this. In my 27 years(I am 37, so I am going from 10 on), I have NEVER known, or knew someone through someone else, who helps gather this info. Who are these people, and where are they?

    But, in the end, who the hell cares. It's TV.
     
  10. RobertE

    RobertE New Member

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    I've met some Neilsen installers.

    From what they were allowed to tell me, with a receiver, such as DirecTvs HR2x line, the put something inside of it. Don't know what or how it works, but anyway, they put the gizmo inside. It then reports what you are watching live, just like the viewer box with assigned buttons for household members. In addition, it also reports what gets recorded (regardless of viewed or not) for 1/2 credit, then if watched within 7 days, reported again for the remaining 1/2 credit.

    I found it interesting. They also hook their spy gear to everything, vcrs, dvds, blu rays, all video games, everything.
     
  11. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    Cariera, the content providers will seek to maximize revenues, but they may conclude that maximizing revenues in a digital environment will result in less aggregate sales.

    In the music industry many consumers who once had to buy an album, even though they liked but one track, now buy that individual from itunes or amazon. Also, in Mexico City, the retail price of a CD was often 20 dollars (this was before the Web, and yes, many items are more expensive in Mexico than in the US). Today, in an attempt to fight piracy, many music labels are making their content legally available at newsstands for 4 dollars a CD.

    With respect to video, not only do you have Netflix and Hulu, but also file sharing sites that many people frequent.
     
  12. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    At the moment with DirecTV's reporting the answer is not many are cutting the cord.

    I still don't think many people will cut the cord either. They may start to suppliment for years and then if nothing changes in a decade or so we might start to see true cord cutting. 10 years ago reports were saying that consumers would not have land based phone lines by now. They're still around even though cell dominates and the two largest cell companiers are the old phone companies.
     
  13. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    Shades, DTV may be the exception.

    Based on what Time Warner said today, I'd say that more and more are cutting the cord....

    Comcast reported a larger than expeced decline in basic cable subs last week. And today, Time Warner reported a decrease in basic subs.

    If aggregate 3Q10 PayTV subscribers have decreased from 2Q10, it's going to be harder to argue that technology, the economy, and ever higher prices, aren't inducing disconnects.

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    http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20021747-266.html

    Coming soon: A lower-cost video service

    During the company's conference call with analysts and investors, executives hinted at a new video package designed to address the low end of the market. CEO Glenn Britt said that Time Warner Cabel is readying a scaled-down video package that offers cash-strapped customers more flexibility.

    "We recognize there is a segment of our population and economy under economic duress," he said. "And it's important for the broader industry to be responsive to that. So we have sought in our programming negotiations to get more flexibility [to offer lower cost packages.]"

    Details of the new tier of service were scant, but Britt said it would cost less than services that are currently offered. On average, Time Warner Cable customers spend about $72 a month on video service.
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  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I cut the cord a few years ago. An unused 100ft cable from a pole to my house passing through one of my trees was unneeded. My cord is now under 50ft from dish to receiver. (As with cell phones, smaller is better.)

    We will know more tomorrow (when DISH releases their 3Q numbers) but for the last four quarters DISH outperformed DirecTV on net subscriber adds. Add 3Q 09, 4Q 09, 1Q 10 and 2Q 10 together and you'll find 455k net adds for DirecTV and 708k net adds for DISH. With the good results DirecTV posted Thursday their rolling total (4Q 09 to present) 493k net adds. DISH has 467k net adds in the last three quarters. If DISH adds 26k net they will beat DirecTV on the rolling total (I'm not expecting that, but it is possible).

    People are cutting the cord ... and installing satellite.
     
  15. Glen_D

    Glen_D Legend

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    This is just what I figured pay TV services (especially Cable) would have to eventually do, if they don't want to hemorrhage subsrcibers. With "Standard" analog service in my market somewhere around $65/month (less taxes and fees), and plucking channels from the analog tier to put them on extra-cost digital-only tiers (set-top box required), with no reduction in analog pricing, I think some kind of lower cost alternative will have to be seriously considered.

    And I noticed the article says TW expects to phase out set-top boxes. Really? Right now they're actually moving the opposite direction, by shifting more and more channels to digital tier. Even with a QAM tuner, about all they offer that you can't get with an old analog tuner are digital & HD locals, and Public Access. They are forcing more people to get the set-top boxes, at about $8-9/month each, if someone wants to get all the channels offered in a package.
     
  16. gfrang

    gfrang Hall Of Fame

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    I have to do something my D* bill ia the most expensive of my bills well very close to the gas bill anyway.

    I have 3 Roku boxes now and love them. As far as Playon Roku has a Playon channel that is in bata witch i downloaded,what it does is gives the roku player some pnp and dlna Functionally using playon loaded on a networked computer.

    I myself keep looking for a cheaper tv watching solution.
     
  17. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    Kagan's 3Q10 numbers are in. PayTV lost 119K subs during the quarter, after losing 216K during 2Q10. Thing is, 3Q10 numbers are supposed to come in very strong, due to seasonality factors.

    And as PayTV co's begin to pass through the price hikes that the government has forced them to accept as a result of not regulating OTA signals, look for more subs to leave.

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    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.c...-cable-subscriptions-drop-again/?ref=business

    Then it happened again in the third quarter, when 119,000 people canceled subscriptions.

    The numbers sent a chill through the television industry, which depends in large part on the fees that are collected by television distributors.

    When the second-quarter numbers were released in August, some wondered if they were an anomaly in the steady upward march of pay television, which has been supported by population growth and the popularity of TV. But with the third-quarter numbers also showing a decline, cord-cutting — which is a reference to people who cancel cable and cobble together a low-cost diet of TV via the Internet — is getting a closer look.
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  18. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Allen, TX
    Poorly done study...They include telecommunications subs in their numbers.
     
  19. Gloria_Chavez

    Gloria_Chavez Godfather

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    Time Warner's low-cost package....

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    * NOVEMBER 18, 2010, 2:34 P.M. ET

    Time Warner Cable Offers Cheaper TV Package Without ESPN

    By NAT WORDEN

    Time Warner Cable Inc. is rolling out a lower-priced cable TV package called "TV Essentials" that excludes major cable networks like ESPN, Comedy Central, TNT, Fox News, MSNBC, Fox regional sports networks and MSG.

    The offering will begin Monday on a test basis in New York City, where it will cost $39.95 per month, and northern Ohio, including Cleveland and Akron, where it will cost $29.95 per month. Those prices are 12-month promotions, and Time Warner Cable spokeswoman Maureen Huff said the retail value of the package is $49.99 per month.

    ---
    ---


    The offering, however, has several limitations, aside from lacking a number of popular networks. It doesn't allow customers to access high-definition programming or use a digital video recorder.

    It also bars customers from partaking in discounted bundled offerings for other Time Warner Cable services, like broadband and phone service, so it's aimed at customers that subscribe to TV service only. It also includes paid on-demand services, like newly released movies, but it doesn't include free on-demand options.

    Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704104104575622812880760750.html#ixzz15gTZsqXV
    -----------------

    Question is, will ESPN sue Time Warner, arguing that its channel is no longer on the basic tier?
     
  20. greatwhitenorth

    greatwhitenorth Godfather

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    Although everyone seems to believe "cord-cutting" to be the driver of Pay-TV sub losses, I haven't seen the sub losses compared to the number of households in the country. Population is rising, but there are a lot of homes sitting vacant, on the market, or in foreclosure. I believe that a lot of the total sub loss can be explained by the decline in the total number of households. Sure, some "cord-cutters", but I don't see that as being a huge factor (yet).
     

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