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California Gay Marriage weirdness

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Danny R, Sep 7, 2005.

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  1. billpa

    billpa Icon

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    I DID post a poll from a couple of years ago from the Boston Globe/WBZ in this thread. I didn't see any reply yet from the p-man.
     
  2. Bogy

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    He doesn't answer things when it wouldn't be convenient for him. Like when something proves he is wrong. I'm still waiting for his statement as to whether Grampa and Grandma shacking up for financial reasons could possibly have an effect on their grandchildren deciding to live together instead of getting married.
     
  3. RichW

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    But here are some polls, in particular the Pew Poll at the top, that show just how quickly public opinion is shifting.

    But Bogy, you of all people should know that people act one way in the pews and another when they aren't in church.
     
  4. billpa

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    For which the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce is eternally grateful :)
     
  5. Bogy

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    So true. :nono2: :(
     
  6. Slamminc11

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    I have choosen a lot of things in my life, but I never chose to be gay. If I had a "choice" I would have it the same way my two brother's and their wives have it. And until you have lived in my shoes, and have experienced the hatred and threats on my life just walking down the street with my partner or us sharing an apartment together and for just being who we are, then in the meantime you can just keep your ignorance and closed mindedness and have a nice day. :)
     
  7. RichW

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    I understand that, but my point is that even if it is a choice, the choice to marry the one you love should be the same as the choice for "straight" people. I think the population is starting to see that. This business of whether it is a "choice" or not is simply a red herring.

    However, it is also disingenuous to claim is it all about choice. I can't remember "choosing" to be straight either. Most people didn't. It just happens.
     
  8. socceteer

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    I do not agree with those who hate and abuse people for any reason and I will be one of the first people jumpping in to protect people who are abused. My point just has to do with the fact that you choose to do something that people dislike and you did not have to put yourself on that position, you choose to ...! If you know that a car can hit you if you sleep on the road, then don't do it.

    I have gay friends and they do not demand of us to treat them different. they are just people and that is all, they are not asking for special rights. And they live in our society as just another individual. They do not hold hands or kiss on the streets. Just like heterosexuals. that belongs in the privacy of their home.
     
  9. billpa

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    I see heterosexuals holding hands in public all the time; are you suggesting they don't? Why does holding hands belong in the home? What harm comes from seeing two people holding hands?
     
  10. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    There is no reason to deny them, other than prejudice.

    And I second that opinion as well. It shouldn't matter at all if its choice or not. Our nation is a free country where each of us should be allowed to do as we please so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.

    As yet, nobody has illustrated one way that occurs.
     
  11. Slamminc11

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    Where am I asking for "special rights"? Where am I asking to be treated differently? All I want is to have the same rights as everyone else. Amazing that you think that I am out flaming up the world and screwing everything that moves and chomping on every tongue that is stuck out my way. I don't go around making out in public. I don't go around "sexing up" every guy I see. It's perfectly okay for a straight couple to walk down the street holding hands. I take the chance of getting my ass kicked. It's perfectly okay for a straight couple to give a kiss goodbye when one drops the other off at the office. I take the chance of getting fired. Most people, if they didn't know me wouldn't guess that I was gay. But once word gets out, there are certain people out there that would much rather have me killed than look at me. So what, according to you, I am supposed to just go hide? To pretend that who I am doesn't matter? I work my job just the same as my "straight" counterparts do, but I spend every day worrying that if my boss decides that he doesn't like gays, then he can fire me for it. If I am a christian, he can't fire me for that, and that is a choice. Why shouldn't I have the same rights to feel safe in my workplace as a christian does? According to you, my being gay is a choice just like a christians is to be a christian. They are protected, and I'm not. How is that fair? All I am asking is for the same rights as you have. The right to marry the person that I love, that I want to spend the rest of my life with. The right to feel safe walking down the street with my partner, going to a movie together, to dinner in a restaurant. I pay taxes just like you. My money that I spend in my community is the same color as yours. But according to you, I shouldn't been seen or heard.
    Where is any of that wanting "special rights"? Why is wanting the same "pursuit of happiness" that you are afforded by the founding fathers of this country wanting special rights?
     
  12. Bogy

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    I hold hands with my wife every Sunday when the two of us walk out of church and then greet the congregation as they leave. I have had many members of the churches I have served comment on how meaningful it is to see us do that. Nobody has ever told us that we should keep that kind of behavior to our bedroom. I've got a wedding coming up in 2 weeks between a man and a woman. They are expecting/expected to kiss at the end of the service. Do you think I should avert my eyes from this public display of sexuality? When my parents attended a Christian college in the 1940s they were not allowed to hold hands on campus, and I understand there are still a few colleges who have those standards. Very few. You are either somewhat hypocritical, or a throwback to the Victorian age.
     
  13. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    If I had to count, I bet I would see far more blatant sexual acts from heterosexual couples than gay ones at most public malls, parks and sporting events.

    The only exception would be if I specifically went to areas known for homosexual meetings. But the converse is true as well.
     
  14. jonstad

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    Yeah, but you probably got really nice shoes. C'mon, admit it!:hurah:;)
     
  15. pjmrt

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    But that is asking for special rights. You made a choice of a particular behavior and you in essence want to force people to approve. That should not nor will not occur. Should people beat or kill homosexuals on the street - no, and I think all who use such lawless acts should be punished under the law. Should someone who beats or kills someone because they are homosexual be DIFFERENT from someone who beats or kills someone because they don't like their face - no way!

    The same argument you use could be applied to many other activities. Pornographers pay taxes I assume (otherwise they'd all be in jail now) - so would you say we should lift the restrictions against pornography too? Most companies will fire someone for having pornography and probably will not hire someone if they know they are involved with it. Should we ban such blatantly discriminatory actions? No you choose your behaviour, and yes it was a choice. It may have been a trail of tiny choices leading to an overall mind-set, but it was as much a choice as any. (Unless you want to argue its some form of mental disease perhaps. :D )

    Should your employer fire simply because he doesn't like homosexuality - no, not as long as that's not part of the work place environment. But in general, all employment is at the discretion of the employer. Firing because of race is opposed by federal law. But people CAN and HAVE been fired because of their religeous beliefs in the US. And although relatively safe in the US many Christians are beaten and killed elsewhere because of the faith.

    just a small number of the instances, but sure to get the pot boiling....
    http://www.theomahachannel.com/education/4015839/detail.html
    http://www.texnews.com/1998/texas/bank1114.html

    For civilization to avoid chaos, it has to have certain rules for behaviour. We happen to choose ours based on our religeous background - and it has worked remarkably well for over 200 years. Now some want us to revert to those of the old roman empire, which perished because of their behaviour. regardless, in America, it is the right of the people to decide what behaviour is Ok and that which is not. In fact, it is also the right of the individual citizen - unlike a dictatorship, we do not have a government to tell us what to believe or not to believe. (although it seems to be moving that way thanks to the liberals - who now want to tell us it is wrong to view sexual immorality as wrong or to tell someone such)
     
  16. pjmrt

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    I have to disagree - I've been at Disney. Also, in our local park - more arrests were made for public homosexual sex (not displays of affection) than for heterosexual.
     
  17. pjmrt

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    You still droning on???? I guess unlike you, I have better things to do than see what happened in your soap opera today. So I'm not going to comment on your grandparents, mine were married thank you very much, and for several decades until their deaths.

    An as to your later comment, you (again) are twisting things. There is a difference between displays of sexuality, and public displays of affection. But then you, like the same gender mafia, miss the point of the difference between love and sex and hence marriage. Holding hands, and other public displays of affection, are just fine in my book ... even healthy for the marriage. Smooching up on your next door's neighbor is not. Sex, in the BIBLICAL confines of one man, and one woman committed in love toward each other is not wrong. Sex, in any other confines that relationship is wrong and will lead to destruction eventually.
     
  18. billpa

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    You're simply wrong. Who would make this choice? If a man is only attracted to women, why would he CHOOSE to have sex with other men? Why would he ignore his attraction to women to the point of NEVER having sex with women and to the point of getting married to another man and living with that man for the rest of his life? For those of us who are NOT gay, it would be like choosing to live underwater.
    Again, these are silly arguments that can be turned aside by simple logic and the most basic understanding of human nature.
    But at the end of the day it doesn't matter. It's clear that society is having an easier time understanding that homosexuals should be treated the same as heterosexuals---sometime in the future, people will read the writings similar to your's and view it the way we today view racist literature of the past.
     
  19. pjmrt

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    Why do people do anything? Why do people smoke cigarettes, when vertually everyone's first reaction to it is to get sick? Why do people shoot drugs up their arms or up their noses? I could go on and on. Do they somehow wake up one day and say, "hmmm, I think I will be attracted to men?" No, like I said, its probably a gradual process that takes one to that point. Perhaps it was helped along by abuse as a child, ... But how one reacts to those stimuli is a choice.

    And if not a choice, what then? Medical research has pretty well debunked any genetic cause.
     
  20. billpa

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    Mostly peer presure; I don't think there's any peer presure to become gay.
     
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