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Can't sell 942 b/c dish won't offer hd programming to new customer?

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by kspeters, Apr 20, 2006.

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  1. the_bear

    the_bear Godfather

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    Oct 18, 2004
    I cannot see these costs being all that high. The number of people selling 9xx must be very small compared to the number of people keeping them. As long as Dish allows people to keep 9xx, there will be extra maintenance costs. The incremental costs of a few more 9xx users is pretty small. Maybe in a couple years this is a good strategy, but not with current 622 production costs.

    Isn’t the lease fee waived for new customers on the first receiver? This means a 622 and 921 customer has the same monthly receiver bill. Dish would love to sell customers receivers, but competition from cable and DirecTV force Dish to offer lease. Just look at the minium requirement of AT60 to lease. If leasing really was profitable, you could lease without AT60.
     
  2. Rogueone

    Rogueone Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 29, 2004
    the issue with lowerer than AT60 packages would likely have more to do with the profit the package pulls in. Also, you have to figure dish has extensive research on how long a typical new sub stays connected after starting a lease. It may be that, generally speaking, sub AT60 buyers stay a shorter time, or are more apt to do the seasonal subscription, such that it takes a prohibitively longer amount of time to recoup the costs.

    As a business owner, you goal isn't to lease someone this expensive box that takes 2 years to get your money back, to have the typical customer leave at that point. You want to encourage subs who are likely to stay with you for 5 or 10 years. You offer packages you hope will steal people from Cable, or invite them to try a non OTA only service for the first time in years or maybe ever. If you can lease someone your equipment, and can plan on most of them paying your monthly bill for 5 to 10 years, you know you are going to make a nice profit on getting them onto your network cheaper than if you made them pay full price for the box and dishes up front. Likely you wouldn't get them as a customer if they had to shill out $500 up front. It's all marketing, and there is no way they are doing this if they know they will loose money. They know a certain number of people won't stay long term, but most of us will, and they'll make their money back in the long run, and then some :)
     
  3. The intimidator

    The intimidator AllStar

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    Apr 14, 2006
    942 is 2 meg,and all new stuff is 4 meg. They just continue the programming for those tuners for the very reason you mentioned. Customers spent a pretty penney on those. But new customers they want to have the optimum experience with HD. THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO HAVE THE LATEST EQUIPMENT...
     
  4. The intimidator

    The intimidator AllStar

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    Apr 14, 2006
    Nope you can now have the minimum of Dish family to still qualify for the lease option..
     
  5. pjm877

    pjm877 Cool Member/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 27, 2003
    Austin, tx
    gee, I don't know.. seems like DISH in not allowing 941/942's to be reused for HD, should just as well bite the bullet and put out a statement, "Notice: As of May 1, 2006 all HD programming will be changed over to MPEG4. For customers that have older Dish HD receiving equipment we have the Dish-UP-HD program."

    But, I see this to be like you just bought a 1999 Toyota and go to get on the toll road... oops sorry you must use the slow pot-hole, many lights side road, this "Older" car is not allowed to be drivern/seen on our nice new paved toll road, oh and hope you never need Maint.

    There is only one way to change the mind of "Dish".. sort of like the way a union works ... we at once tell them what we want, and on May 1 when we don't get it... drop the service, and no one all over the USA signs on for any service ...

    The only way they will really that notice is if something hit them hard in the $$$ and on the stock market... don't see any other way...

    Gang, wonder would DISH activate another 942 on an account that already has pre Feb 2006 HD service?

    staying with my 721 and 942 for now... no bangs for the bucks to move just yet..

    later
     
  6. the_bear

    the_bear Godfather

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    Oct 18, 2004
    So, Dish wants mad customers as a customer service?

    Does that mean you can get HD for no initial fee and $40/month Family + HD pack? If so, then that is a pretty good deal and way bellow the competition.

    There are too few customers switching to DirecTV because they cannot activate used 9xx receivers to have much impact on stock price, otherwise, yes people would be out shorting Dish.
     
  7. kmcnamara

    kmcnamara Icon

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    Jan 30, 2004
    Yes, I did just that. No problems and I receive all pre-2/1 HD content on my new 942.
     
  8. pjm877

    pjm877 Cool Member/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 27, 2003
    Austin, tx
    hum.. maybe I can get another 942 cheap.. I like the name based programming..

    Thanks very much for the news.. :)
     
  9. Hoxxx

    Hoxxx Cool Member/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 19, 2004

    I know what you mean.
    I currently use my 921 as a local only HD DVR it works great. ya I dont have guide data so what my old VCR never had guide data and I recorded lots of show s with that thing.
    I am going to use it till the hard drive fails.
    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  10. wingnut1

    wingnut1 Legend

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    Nov 10, 2005
    If someone has two HD tvs they could get a 622 to get the HD package and then buy a used 942 for the second tv. I'm sure that many of us on the site currently have this configuration since we could only Dish up one 622.
     
  11. waltinvt

    waltinvt Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2004
    I suppose it's sort of like why they broke up the telephone monopoly. When you sell a service and are also the only source for equipment to utilize that service, it's only a matter of time before you cross the line in taking advantage of that.

    Maybe a case could be made for delibertly "degrading" the usefulness of a product after you've sold that product, which is what Dish does all the time.

    This is probably another reason they're trying to move to all leased equipment. Maybe they sense the FTC has shifted it's gaze in their direction.
     
  12. UTFAN

    UTFAN Legend

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    Nov 11, 2005
    They apparently see the financial motivation. They're a pretty smart bunch.;)
     
  13. the_bear

    the_bear Godfather

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    Oct 18, 2004
    When there is no logical reason for an action, smart is not the first word that comes to my mind.
     
  14. ashu

    ashu Mentor

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    Mar 8, 2006
    In reference to the posts from many long-time Dish subscribers who're now leaving, because of the recent treatment ... I sympathize with you :(

    I'm dumping my 811 because they refuse to activate even the MPEG-2 channels (from the VOOM lineup) and refuse to back down from the upgrade cost and the 18-month contract requirement. A mere 4 months ago, I was lied to about the ability to receive HD locals on the 811, and I opted for a no-contract setup by paying an extra 49.99. Best 50 bucks I ever spent :)

    I currently have a Motorola 6412 HD DVR from Adelphia side-by-side with my 811, and, despite the fact that I lose two good channels (DiscHD, TNTHD) and the DVR software is puerile compared to my TiVos, the HD quality is better than the 811 (DVI/HDMI comparison - apples to apples).

    All the blocks on my downgraded cable line were just removed, so I know have the FULL package for less than I was paying Dish for a nickel-and-dimed (and slowly becoming obsolete) package. Tonight I make the call to Dish to come get their hardware or send me shipping labels :) So much for the vaunted customer service and effort to reduce churn! :rolleyes:
     
  15. bear paws

    bear paws Icon

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    Jan 11, 2006
    NE Ct.
    From the business aspect for dish there is a lot more than meets the eye,

    Its mostly an accounting thing . The leased Equip. is a depreciated capital investment over period of years. The discounted $ amounts for the replacements are charged off as a loss..
    The lease becomes a non taxed assset ,untill collected. But the lease value goes toward current net worth and the PE ratio and hence share price. {its like $$ in the bank, you can borrow close to 100% against it. There is more ... a lot more.

    Unfortunitly when a business gets large , especeally if they are traded, the primary business becomes money and accounting has more to say than cutomer service and the product is just the vehicle or the means..

    Bear!

    Oh yeah, accountants have a way of making CHURN profitable, amazing stuff.
     
  16. kspeters

    kspeters Mentor/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Aug 12, 2003
    Good post that makes a valid point and somehow makes sense of all of this. I have emailed ceo@dishnetwork.com and got a response. I'll keep you informed of my outcome.
     
  17. kspeters

    kspeters Mentor/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Aug 12, 2003
    After apeaking with a very helpful rep at CEO Escalation, He basically tells me that it is indeed possible to get the hd package with the 942 after selling it to another person. Here are some quotes from the CEO Escalations rep. You would have to contact them if you are wanting to do this.
    "If the person moving into your home would just like our older package then it is still possible for them to use that unit."

    "The 942 unit can only pick up our first HD package, this is still a subscription package but it only includes 5 or so HD channels. He also has to have a dish network account."

    "If his account is still active then all I would need is his account number or phone number. "

    "I have to manually add the codes into his account; customer service doesn’t have the option if the receiver is not activated on his account."

    "You can include that in the forums just please try to keep my name out of it. I have received hundreds and hundreds of e-mail regarding some issues I have taken care of in the past. If you include that just make sure they are aware the 942 receiver has to be activated on the customers account before customer service can add the HD programming."

    So you see by getting in contact with CEO Escalations they can switch the receiver from person a to person b and then person b can subscribe to the hd package. The normal CSR cannot do this b/c the computers are not set up for them to do it. CEO Escalations rep told me all I had to do is have the other guy call him and he could take care of it for me.
     
  18. orubin

    orubin New Member

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    Apr 30, 2006
    This is EXACTLY the way Dish sees it too. just give them your receiver and another $100 for the right to LEASE a receiver for $10/month. For the home owner who paid "nothing" for the reciever, not bad. But this is NOT the way I see it for me.

    I pay nearly $650 for my 942 about 8 month ago (6 month ago when I started complaining to DISH in March) and Dish does not care. I see it this way: 8 months ago I bought their top of the line receiver for $650. Now, they want me to GIVE it to them along with another $100, and in return, they will "let me" LEASE a 622. I spend $750 in less than 8 months and walk away with nothing but the right to lease the receiver? That is a bad deal in my view. I will gladly pay $100 and exchange my receiver to OWN the 622, but that is not the deal. You basically throw $750 plus at DISH for the right to pay to use THEIR receiver they own.

    I have written the Better Business Bureau of Denver, and ENCOURAGE all here who are outraged at this to do the same. More complaints may make a difference. I have talked to the executive offices of DISH, they do not care and refuse to budge on this issue. I have called action lines, consumer complaint organizations, and have filed a complaint with the FCC as well. I suggest you all do the same. DISH needs to hear that this is NOT OK. It is deceptive and unethical business practice. And if you get your letters published, it may convince others when choosing to chose other than DISH. The only thing I can do here is vote with my wallet, and I vote to give DISH less customers. I will no longer recommend them as I have, nor will I install their systems for anyone any more. DISH has finally become that evil 'cable company' that they tried so hard to replace many years ago. I thinnk they have forgotten why they came into this business in the first place. Hello Charlie, remember us, your customers?

    In talking to DISH, I asked them in my case to waive the $99 and in return I would sign a new 1 year contract, and I would waive off the installation since all I needed was the reciever. I am a plus $100 a month customer, have three receivers, pay by credit card, and have been a customer of DISH for over 10 years. They do not care about any of this, and basically told me to take it or leave it. I am leaving it.

    As soon as I get all my programming transfered off this box, I am dropping DISH myself. Obviously they do not care if the loose customers, and for $100, they have proven that! Sure, I will get less HD choice, but then again, maybe watching less TV is a good thing.

    BTW: You do know when you quit DISH, this box 942 PVR becomes a boat anchor. So much for "owning it." Does anyone know if it will still at least receive off-air broadcasts, or will that too be turned off?
     
  19. kmcnamara

    kmcnamara Icon

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    Jan 30, 2004
    orubin, I agree with a lot of what you say. What dish is offering the 921/942 people is a bad deal unless you're a dish apologist. Particularly when people who are leasing a 942 get the same deal as those of us who paid several hundred dollars to own the box. However, Dish isn't forcing anyone to do anything. They can't force us to send them our receivers. In fact, I had a 921 until about 5 weeks ago when I purchased a brand new 942 when I realized that none of the new HD they were offering was worth anything to me. I get the old HD pack plus the original 10 Voom channels plus very good OTA reception so the 622 really has no value to me anyway.

    As to your question about what happens when you cancel Dish service, the 942 will continue to function as an OTA DVR (except you won't have guide info forcing you to manually set up your timers). At least that's what I was told by others here when I asked the same question.
     
  20. savecal

    savecal Cool Member

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    Mar 2, 2005
    Well, I've got a good luck story for this place in time. My 921 hard drive died last week, so I was considering switching over to DirecTV, but I called the Dish technical service to see if there was anything else I could do. In the meantime, I had them reactivate my old 301 standard def. receiver, so that my wife could continue to have her normal programming. I should mention that about a month ago we deceided to drop our HD programming. because we didn't think it was worth the charge, and we mostly enjoy the OTA HD programs from ABC and PBS (especially). We knew when we cancelled that we could NOT return to HD on the 921; we'd have to upgrade and lease. So, watching our pennies, this made sense until the HD programming improved enough for us to make the switch. We feel the future competition and the changes mandated by the FCC will make BIG changes in the next five years. So, for us, we were keeping the 921 as a OTA tuner and enjoying the DVR feature for a few programs off and on. Well, that's our history, but when the 921 died, we thought we were out of luck with Dish. Then, one of their techs mentioned that he thought that they'd replace the 921 free of charge if we signed up for their warrantee program (about $6 a month) even though we had gone past the original 921 warrantee (1 year). So, we did and today a 942 showed up at our door. Another Dish service rep. also mentioned that we don't have to continue to subscribe to the warrantee program after receiving the replacement if we don't want to. So, I think we're happy at this point. My only question is the 942 a better box?
     
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