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Carnival Triumph (and other Carnival issues)

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Chris Blount, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    The thread heading and original post, as well as most of the post content here has pertained to Carnival's escapades (not other sub-companies).

    Stats on other sub-companies seem off-topic. I'd even agree with you that the Costa reference was off topic, as while Carnival owns them too...the problems it encountered had little to do with mechanical issues. Comparisons with other cruise lines would seem appropriate when comparing Carnival itself to something of equal stature.

    Carnival has been in the news alot the past year, and it's based upon their own doing. Even the stats support that.

    Not all cruise lines operate with the Carnival maintenance policies or history.

    Most important, Carnival's problems have tainted the industry as a whole. Since some folks like stats, then the 18% reduction in cruise bookings since the Carnival Triumph debacle demonstrates it. A real shame.
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It is one big happy company ... it is a shame that adding in the other sub-companies does not improve their reputation. The most important thing about a cruise is to have a pleasant voyage. The Triumph's failure was not a pleasant voyage ... Flying Dream passengers home and cancelling the next cruise was not a pleasant voyage ... Cancelling a port of call on the Legend so the ship could limp home was not a pleasant voyage.

    And, as you have stated, the recent issues have hurt the industry ... not just Carnival.

    If you're saying that mechanical failures are typical of cruises perhaps Nick is right painting the whole industry with the same brush. The problems Carnival has had should be aberrations, not routine. Do ships miss ports of call due to mechanical reasons routinely? Are cruises cut short or cancelled due to mechanical reasons routinely?

    The passengers on the Legend and Dream had a better voyage than those on the Triumph ... and certainly better than on the Concordia. But surviving seems to be a low bar to set. These are supposed to be fun cruises ... not survival experience tours. :)
     
  3. houskamp

    houskamp New Member

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    thing that amazes me is there isn't a backup generator setup to at least keep basic services running..
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There are ... but the backup needs to be working properly.
     
  5. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Yup....they need to be tested periodically.

    On our cruise...we got to see something pretty cool in one port - a lifeboat test drill.

    One side of the ship emptied them into the water in the harbor...and we watched them close up running around to test their engines. It's good to know they work. Since we happened to be on a small harbor tour...we got to view this "show" up close and personal...
     

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  6. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    Very cool pix. I feel better now.
     
  7. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    Life boats work well -- as long as they are launched in time. The Concordia, after ripping a long gash in their hull, didn't launch their boats when the ship started healing. By the time they made the decision, half of their life boats couldn't be launched.
     
  8. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    That whole episode was a series of human error follies.

    The safety rules don't seem to be enforced in Europe the same way as from U.S. ports. They didn't even run a muster drill on Concordia...so it's likely not a good example of what could/would/should happen in other situations. Weekly lifeboat drills are standard on most U.S. originated cruise lines.
     
  9. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    I saw a Norwegian ship practicing with their lifeboats while in Nassau once. All seemed to be going well until they were trying to get the last boat hooked back up to the line so they could hoist it back up. For whatever reason they kept missing with one of the lines and kept having to come back around several times before finally getting it. By the time they did a bit of crowd had obviously been watching from our ship because when they finally got it hooked up you could hear a cheer from the people. Kind of like one of those sarcastic "Bronx Cheers" you hear at a game when a player who's been sucking all game finally does something right.
     
  10. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    I think this is where the current issues with Carnival are hurting the industry, because they have had a few incidents here over the past month or so it does give the impression that these things do happen "routinely". But the truth of the matter is no these things are far from "routine". Yes ships do have these problems and others occasionally and you can bet damn well that the cruise lines (yes even Carnival) do their damndest to make sure they happen as little as possible, after all they understand how it affects their bottom line when things like this get reported to the news. The truth of the matter is, and anyone that cruises regularly can attest to this, a vast majority of the time most everything goes great and a vast majority of the people on board end up enjoying themselves, if that weren't true there's no way there would be so many of these huge ships built that cost at least hundreds of millions to build (some over a billion) to begin with. I think something that would be telling is to take a poll of those who were on the Triumph and see how many people have already booked their next cruise or are planning to. I bet the number would be pretty high, especially among regular cruisers, they know that it was a freak happening and the likely-hood of ever experiencing such a thing again is pretty slim.
     
  11. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    My read is they have become routine on Carnival.

    And I bet they do their darnedest to keep it as inexpensive as possible. Unfortunately short-term caught up with long-term this year.

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  12. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    But in some small defense of the officers, they were practically within swimming distance of shore. Then when she fetched up on the shoal, she listed much faster than just water intake would have caused.

    BTW, it's "heel", not "heal", but power vessels generally list, not heel.
     
  13. dennisj00

    dennisj00 Hall Of Fame

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    I had this post composed earlier this afternoon but forgot to press submit. . .

    A better word is listing. Heeling on a sailboat is normal and fun! Listing on a cruise ship is no fun. And not many boats heal themselves. . .
     
  14. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    Sorry. I disagree. No defense at all for the officers of that ship. Their actions were directly responsible for the deaths of 32 people. But the captain made it safely off into a lifeboat, didn't he.
     
  15. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    Once again that's the problem right there, the impression is that it's "routine". But even with all three of those problems over the past month it's still a very small percentage. Looks like Carnival has 24 ships currently under their own name brand, 22 of those currently sailing (Triumph under rehab obviously and the Destiny is being transformed into the Sunshine). So over the course of a month every one of those ships takes at least 4 cruises, some twice as many because they do shorter cruises. So I'd say easily in the course of a month Carnival embarks on 100 cruises at least and in the name of keeping easy round numbers lets just keep it at 100. So over the course of a month they've had 3 problems big enough to make the news. So having mechanical problems 3% of the time is anything but routine and this current stretch is far worse than the norm anyone would admit. So it would be safe to say that most the time problems like this are very probably well under 1% of the total cruises. Obviously you'd like it to be possible to never have any mechanical problems ever but I've yet to hear of the machine that's 100% reliable even when well maintained and these ships are so huge and have so many systems it's amazing to me they do as well as they do. Despite the reality of things being in their favor I'd still hate to be in the PR dept of any cruise line and especially Carnival's right now trying to fight the perception that things are "routinely" going wrong on these ships. Oh well maybe it'll mean some cheaper fares for me in the short term. :D
     
  16. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    You can defend them all you want. And you can spin the data all you want. Carnival has a terrible record of the past month. I'd hate to think that 4% of the time I drove I'd have to be towed in, unable to get out of the car. Might be fine by you, ain't for me. :)

    Peace,
    Tom
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    When you put it that way ... I drive 18k miles per year. What percentage of times should I accept problems? What percentage of failure to get to work should my employer accept?

    In the world of IT one shoots for "five nines": 99.999% reliability. I am happy that my vehicle and ability to show up for work are within standards. :)
     
  18. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    The officers of the ship were dolts, irresponsible and incompetent; and the captain, by his decision to go off course holed the ship which lead to the horrible results. It had nothing to do with lifeboats.

    Lifeboats are dangerous to launch while the ship was moving, and they couldn't stop it, as they had no engine power. I don't believe any lives were lost due to the failure to launch lifeboats.
     
  19. tsmacro

    tsmacro Hall Of Fame

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    And as I pointed out in Carnival's worst stretch ever by a long shot it was 3% over the course of month and probably actually less because there were actually more than 100 cruises but hey I was trying to keep the math simple. When you look through their history and do the math the percentage is well below 1%.

    And you're really going to compare your car to a cruise ship, Really?! :lol:Wow talk about an attempt at a really bad false equivalency there, talk about spin! At least I was just doing math! And I've never once denied that Carnival is having some problems currently on the other hand I've been trying to add some perspective to point out it's not nearly as bad as it's made out to be. But hey if it makes you feel better to keep saying you think they're terrible more power to ya!
     
  20. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    This article describes two people who died because they tried to swim to shore. Not sure exactly why they chose to swim, but when you read about the fighting and chaos going on to get into the remaining lifeboats, it might have been because there weren't enough lifeboats available.

    Lifeboats are designed to be launched with the ship is moving. Having a slight headway will allow the ship to better control the launches and (possibly) provide a lee for the launching boats. On the other hand, liferafts are best launched with no headway on.

    While any method of abandoning ship will have some risks, going into a lifeboat in a timely manner is better than how many got off the Concordia.

    [​IMG]
     

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