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Changed my mind. Turned down free HR20/21

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by bigmixx, Dec 6, 2007.

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  1. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    Here we go again with the "Poll Theory".

    Discussion forums devoted to consumer products are predominantly filled with complaints from the 2% that are experiencing problems. The other 98% who are perfectly happy have no reason to post. It does not surprise me in the least that those angry enough to visit this forum, register, find the right subforum, find the thread, and find the poll, chose to vote that they have a problem.

    It's the nature of the internet for consumer products. Visit a BMW forum, you'd think the cars are lemons, visit an iPod forum, you'd think you should buy a Zune, visit a Knitting forum, you'd think everyone on your block is an avid scarf maker.

    If this lipsync problem was such a big deal and affecting millions of HR20 owners, there would have been a public uproar by now that would have led to D* press releases and promises of an update. If 200,000 HR20 owners were slamming the D* customer service lines, we'd know about it by now.

    I do not doubt that some of you have hardware problems. I'm just saying that you are in the minority, and just because this skewed subforum makes you feel otherwise, there are far more users without issues than there are with issues.

    BJ
     
  2. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    I never said there was no issue. I never said that the complaints weren't valid.

    The original poster was being given bad advice by some and I spoke up to correct that situation. I'm pointing out that there are far, far more HR20/1 owners who are perfectly happy than those that are not and that this subforum and it's skew towards negativism is not unlike every other product based discussion forum online.

    The HR20/1 is a rock-solid DVR for 98% of those who own them. The 2% in this subforum tend to be very vocal, and for good reason as they're upset. I get that. But just because a handful of owners are having issues doesn't mean that others are too. You need to understand and support that truth. Otherwise, every prospective D* convert coming in here as a newb will be given misinformation and that's not good. Not good at all.

    BJ
     
  3. Thaedron

    Thaedron Hall Of Fame

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    Jun 29, 2007
    I see lip-sync issues fairly regularly. Not all the time, but 2-3 times a week on various channels. Unforutnately there used to be (hypothetically) ~100 variables in determining the exact signal you received on your TV, now there are on the order of ~100,000. Or stated another way, HDTV content delivery is SIGNIFICANTLY more complex that turning on the old set and possibly adjusting the rabbit ears.

    Many here would suggest, don't blame DirecTV, they are at the mercy of... <insert content provider / directory source scapegoat here>. Lip sync issues may or may not be DirecTVs issue. However that doesn't change the result that I have lip-sync issues in the content that is being delivered to me by DirecTV.

    </soapbox rant off>

    To the OP... issues aside, I would still recommend getting the HR20. It is a solid DVR offering that continues to undergo a great deal of active development. Personally, I think it's at about 98% of the "gold standard" as far as consistent, reliable recording. For me the other existing features and promise of things to come is more than enough to make up for the 2% deficiency. A deficiency which is hopefully being closed bit by bit.
     
  4. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

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    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    Nicely put!
     
  5. jgriffin7

    jgriffin7 Native Texan

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    I'm very shocked by where this thread has gone. Frankly, I'm taken aback that the unit is 'rock-solid'! So 98% of HR20 owners have never had a recording start late, never had audio drop out when slipping/skipping to live TV (fixed by backing up a few seconds), never had audio synch problems on HD channels (HD being the only thing I really watch, which is why you own a HRx as opposed to an Rx right??), never had recording mysteriously just not record, never have CID fail to work, and always have trickplay work perfectly?? 98% fit this description?

    So, the majority on this thread are telling me that if I've ever experienced ANY of these, then I should call D* and have a replacement unit sent? Is that what the majority is telling this alleged minority of us who just got a bad piece of hardware??
     
  6. BubblePuppy

    BubblePuppy Good night dear Smoke... love you & "got your butt

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    Nov 3, 2006
    Right now I am forced to have Comcast.:mad: My apartment doesn't support DirecTv.
    When I had DirecTv in Florida I did have lip sync problems.
    With the Comcast dvr I haven't any Lip sync issues. So it seems that it is a DirecTv issue and not a network one. Just my 2 cents.
    I would still go with DirecTv if I could but right now I can't.:(

    Happy holidays everyone.:)
     
  7. Matt9876

    Matt9876 Hall Of Fame

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    Oct 11, 2007
    The more HD installs I do suggest many problems are related to old cable lines, screw on cable ends and connectors,old underground runs,cheap ground blocks,plasma TVs connected to ungrounded systems and so on......


    If everything is new and installed correctly these systems work solid 99% of the time.

    Matt
     
  8. say-what

    say-what Active Member

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    Dec 14, 2006
    New Orleans
    Actually, those observations are useless to make any conclusions about wither service - the only meaningful comparison would be to check the same program at the same time on both systems and you didn't do that.....

    Today my HR20 is having lipsync issues on my local FOX station. If I left it at that, I'd swear it was a DirecTV problem. If I waited a week and then checked my brother's feed for FOX on Cox Cable and saw it had no lipsync problem, I'd swear it was a DirecTV problem. But guess what, I switched to OTA via my TV's tuner and there were still lipsync issues. It was a problem with the station's feed.

    Now with 2 HR20's and 1 HR21, I don't have lipsync problems related to those units.
     
  9. hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

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    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    Anyone who disputes your problem listing is either the luckiest person on earth or just isn't noticing. That said, my HR20-700 has been very, very good for a developing box. I have 2 missed recordings in over a year. One or two freezes.

    All of the other things (and there are quite a few) have been minor (but very real), and insisting they aren't there is ...well...not credible.

    You just can't take absolutist claims about commonly reported issues seriously (by that I mean, someone claims never to have had lip-sync, never to had a missed recording, never had a trick play issue, etc.)

    The good news is that these are rarely hardware issues (but they have happened). The vast majority of all reported problems have been identified as software issues. Yes, there have been some pretty sloppy and incompetent installs, and a few bad boxes, but these represent a very small minority of cases, as far as I can discern.

    For me the HR20 is a very good box, on track to become on-par or better than many of my other high-end consumer electronics devices. They all have problems. Not a single one doesn't do something wrong or occasionally fail to execute a built-in operation properly.

    The HR20/21 needs development work, to be sure, but I find it servicable and comfortable to use for the most part. The fact that there is such a strong development commitment from D* and we are allowed to be part of it only adds to my confidence that we have a good (not perfect) product that is only going to get better.

    The news could be MUCH worse. Been there, done that.:)
     
  10. TigerDriver

    TigerDriver Electronics Engineer

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    Jul 27, 2007
    You realize of course that you're insulting the entire crack-smoking community?
     
  11. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    Thank you Matt, and that's that.

    BJ
     
  12. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    And I'm very shocked where this forum has gone. It's become a lobbyists hellhole. Too many people with microscopic issues who force their agendas on everyone in some lame attempt to get D*'s attention. We'd have been better off if it were never made public that D* actually reads and participates in this forum because its become some mecca for megaphoneism. "I want the font changed on the Guide! Who's with me? Let's start a poll! Look! 68 people want the font changed! When will D* address the dreaded font issue in this defective DVR?"

    To answer your question, yes.

    Might not be 98%. Might be 96%. But the fact that 58 people on a product based discussion subforum all have the same complaint by no means is indicative of a widespread problem. The HR20/1 is a fantastic piece of electronics and the people who are developing it should be lauded for a job well done, not lambasted for every quirk that's discovered by an audience of needy complainers. We cannot allow the millions of new HD owners who lurk in this great subforum to have the perception that the HR20/1 is a troublesome device. Just can't allow that.

    BJ
     
  13. BubblePuppy

    BubblePuppy Good night dear Smoke... love you & "got your butt

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    Nov 3, 2006
    Tell you what...send me a pm or do a post in real time what shows that you are having lip sync problems with and if I can I will tune to those shows and report what I find. Savvy?
    Do we have an accord?

    All I was reporting was a complete abscence of lip sync problems on all the hd channels I get. Just trying to help to figure out where the problems lies. :nono2:
     
  14. say-what

    say-what Active Member

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    New Orleans
    No, after stating that you no longer have DirecTV and don't have problems on COmcast, you specifically concluded: "So it seems that it is a DirecTv issue and not a network one."

    That's all I was pointing out - the faulty logic. :)
     
  15. jgriffin7

    jgriffin7 Native Texan

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    Feb 16, 2007
    So, to clarify, since I just this moment was rewinding live TV on my HD local, and the picture froze during the rewind at 3X sped, then the picture synched back up when I clicked play, then I should call D* and tell them I have a defective box??? It has nothing to do with Trickplay not functioning smoothly, it's that I, and 58 other people posting on a product based discussion subforum, were just the unlucky recipients of defective boxes??
     
  16. stogie5150

    stogie5150 Godfather

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    You know why they do that? Because D* ASKED them to do it. They STILL ask y'all to report problems. They asked us this time LAST year what we wanted from the HR20, we told them, they STILL don't have it. DLB was NUMBER ONE, they STILL don't have it! SO who is cheatin' who?
    That is the MAIN reason I left D*. Don't ask me what I want, have me test your software FREE, then don't fix what I ask you to WHEN YOU ALREADY ASKED ME TO TELL YOU WHAT WAS WRONG!
    And folks just keep testing/rehashing the same old issues, over and over. Some of these same things I've seen on the bug lists since I got mine in December 2006.

    D* keeps adding features when the basic functionality of the platform is suspect, IMO. BTW,consumers HAVE to like the HR20, its all D* offers. The HR20 is BROKEN. It was rushed out, incomplete, and it STILL IS. I had a wonderful conversation with a retention rep last weekend, he was very interested why I intended on leaving D* after 12 years. Basically I told him the HR20 was sold to us as an UPGRADE in very way to my TIVO. Faster, stronger, jumps higher,etc. It has one thing that the TIVO doesn't. MPEG 4. The rest my TIVO did better. I knew the HR20 was in trouble when my WIFE threw the remote across the room because her reality shows were partially recorded, or not at all, yelling " AND I AM PAYING FOR THIS (EXCREMENT), RIGHT? NOT ANYMORE!"

    All the content in the world would not make me get another HR20. The retention rep, to his credit, attempted to send me another hr20, free. I told him, " Why would I want ANOTHER box when the reason I sent it back WAS the box you want to SEND me?" He asked me what would keep me as a customer of D*. I told him a new TIVO. Actually, I told him an HD DVR that didn't have anything to do with the HR20/21. He said that wasn't possible, I told him I knew it wasn't, that that was why I was leaving. :lol:

    With all that said, its still a personal issue. If you're happy, knock yourself out. I wasn't. I won't pretend everyone's dissatisified if you won't pretend everyone is satisfied. :)
     
  17. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    The easy answer is "yes". But it may not be just the box. Let's do a little papertrail.

    Signal comes down from space.

    On its way to your dish, if the signal is obscured by some trees or other structures, it may be weakened and causing the problem. Speak to your satellite installer to check for obstructions and aiming accuracy.

    Next, the signal comes from the dish through some coax cable. These don't last forever. Say you're renting an apartment in a building that was wired from the roof for cable TV in 1981 and the D* dish is using those cables just because the installer was lazy and didn't want to re-wire 10 floors of coax on the outside of a building. Could be your problem too.

    Next, the signal comes from the coax cable into a multiplexer. That could be defective or the connections might not be tight or, again, the coax in the home leading out from the multiplexer could be old or compromised. This could be the problem too.

    Next, the signal travels through the B-Band converters, into more coax, and then finally into the HR20/1. Is the coax good? Are the ends crimped? Is there enough stripped wire in those crimped connectors? Are your B-Band converters functioning properly? Are all the connections tight? This might be the problem too.

    Next is the HR20/1 itself. Might be defective. Even the best products have a 4% defective rate, industry-wide. This STB is no exception. This might be the problem too.

    Lastly is your AV setup. How is it connected? Are you listening through your TV's speakers via HDMI cable? Or are you getting your audio via an old receiver using optical cable? What is the response rate of your receiver for decoding a 5.1 audio signal? This could be your issue too.

    So, all I'm pointing out is that there are hundreds of thousands of D* users that aren't reporting your problem and a handful that are. And that what gets a signal from a satellite in space to your HDTV isn't the same technology that gets a piece of bread turned into toast in your kitchen. By my count, and I'm just generalizing here, there are 8 to 10 physical connections that all must be working perfectly and in harmony in order for the system to function properly. I have a new house in a rural location with new coax, new STB's, new audio equipment, new HDMI cables, and the newest HDTV's. Maybe you don't, and thus maybe the problem isn't D*'s or everyone's; maybe it's just yours.

    BJ
     
  18. jgriffin7

    jgriffin7 Native Texan

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    Feb 16, 2007
    Earl, could you please close this thread the same way you closed the DLB thread? It's been infected by the same troll that caused the problem over there.
     
  19. boltjames

    boltjames Icon

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    Sep 3, 2006
    How is taking the time to give you good advice considered trolling?

    BJ
     
  20. dettxw

    dettxw MRVing

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    Nov 21, 2007
    Choctaw, OK
    My $.02

    I am happy with my two HR20s and have no issues.

    My bad experience with lip-sync was when a local station's transmission line burned-up and they used a backup until they finished their new tower. Now I view this station OTA but my point, as others have written, is garbage-in garbage out. I wouldn't be surprised that the content sources are one of the biggest generators of sync problems.
     
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