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Charlie Brown Christmas show at center of church vs. state fight

Discussion in 'The OT' started by fluffybear, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm young enough that most of my field trips required approval of my parents. As long as there is an opt out I don't see the problem.

    What are you afraid of? That being exposed to an opposing opinion will be too much for your children? That they are not strong enough to be able to see both sides of the issue and MUST only be indoctrinated with beliefs you agree with?

    BTW: I assume that you have never been to the Creation Museum? I don't agree with everything they present, but I respect their right in a free country to present it AND the right of parents to decide whether or not to allow their children to go there, even if it is on a school organized trip.

    A mind is like a parachute ... it works best when it is open.
     
  2. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    That would be an interesting dilemma for me. I'd have no issue allowing my child going to the play, but the creation museum? Honestly, not sure. Probably would depend on age for me. High school, sure. Elementary, probably not.
     
  3. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    My children are free to form their own opinions...but I still protect them from stupid people. Creationists fit that category.
     
  4. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone DBSTalk Club

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    You'd have a dilemma on whether to let your children attend? Or, you'd have a dilemma on whether or not to sue the school system and post rants about the way they use your tax dollars?
     
  5. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Some forget that evolution is a THEORY ... but I digress. Despite their parents, children eventually are exposed to alternative viewpoints. Then they can make better INFORMED decisions.
     
  6. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    How old do you believe our planet is? How many children do you have?
     
  7. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    So is the principle that infectious diseases are caused by viruses and bacteria. Some forget that a scientific theory is no less valid than a scientific law, and can never become a law. Gravitational theory (Newton) or General Relativity are separate from the Law of Gravity.

    I do admit that not everyone agrees with germ theory either, but no matter what seemingly obvious observation, you'll find someone that doesn't believe in it, like the earth being round or heavier than air flight being possible.
     
  8. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Whether I'd let them attend. It's purely a mind exercise for me, as I won't be a parent.
     
  9. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Somewhere between 7.5 thousand and 4.54 billion years old. As long as you agree that the number chosen (either end of the scale) is based on a belief and not closed minded stubornness I'm happy.

    If it makes you happy, my brother-in-law and his wife have 8 children (so far) and they have an annual membership at the Creation Museum. So if you're were going to tie "number of children" to an authoritative answer religious families who believe in being fruitful and multiplying are automatic winners. :)
     
  10. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Even to agree with the Big Bang theory of the creation of the Universe takes a measure of some sort of faith that scientists are correct. They've certainly been wrong before. I'm scientific in nature and love science, but there's a point with quantum mechanics and the singularity etc that I have trouble getting my head around, since it doesn't follow what we consider the normal laws of physics. There is evidence for it, but it gets way over my head.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There are some theories that are more widely accepted than others. It helps when your theory can be demonstrated (such as taking something heavier than air and making it fly). But there will probably be nay sayers who argue flight isn't flight. :)
     
  12. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    Of course there are some people that are contrary just to be contrary, or to make a good discussion. I had a philosophy professor that debated on a side of organ donation that it was unethical. She didn't know this, but one of her students was a leukemia survivor that had gotten a bone marrow donation that saved his life. I had to tell him that it didn't mean that was what she really thought, but it doesn't make a good discussion when there is no one arguing the other side. She was good at it, so it made it seem like it was her personal belief.
     
  13. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    7.5 thousand? Really? Yikes...

    I didn't ask about your brother-in-law. Although, I do hope he and the children laugh out loud at the exhibit that suggests that man and dinosaur coexisted. It's more amusement park than museum.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Somewhere between ... I have not chosen a number.

    They are more likely to laugh out loud at 4.54 billion years. There are artifacts there but yes, it is designed as a walk through presentation.

    BTW: If you don't like the Creation Museum you're going to love to hate the Ark Encounter. :lol:


    But getting back to Charlie Brown ... if you don't like it, don't let "your children" go. By forcing the schools to not offer such opportunities you're imposing your beliefs on others and committing the same "crime" that you are accusing others of committing.
     
  15. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    I can see that you will continue to ignore the question.
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You keep ignoring the answer.

    By preventing the school from taking the children to the play you are 100% imposing your beliefs on the school system. You are removing the option for the children to enjoy the play together unless the parents individually take the burden of transporting their own children to the performance at the same time.

    By allowing the school to take the children to the play one is allowing the parent the OPTION of allowing their child to see the play (or not) without the additional burden of transporting the child to the performance. For children with cooperative parents they can see the play together with their friends ... and experience an education that goes beyond books and lectures.
     
  17. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Well, no, not really. It's law, both civil and criminal and has been ruled on many times including just recently in (or near) San Diego [nativity scene on public property banned].

    But this thread has already crossed site policy lines, so I won't go further.



    I don't buy that one either. I don't think scientists know very much of what they think they know. The notion that everything that exists started with a single event is ridiculous. String and Membrane theories are more believable but can most likely never be proven.

    I don't get why humans have to put everything in human terms or having a beginning and an end. Why can't we accept that somethings just are, always have been and always will be? Why do we have to define how small is small (quark) and how large is large (universe)? Maybe everything we think we know (our universe) in nothing more than a Quark in something else.
     
  18. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    The nativity scene itself was not banned! There is a lot more to that the story than you are sharing.

     
  19. dpeters11

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    I don't actually necessarily disagree with the Big Bang theory, just that it gets way over me. We have detected the background radiation, know that the universe is expanding. Using gravitational lenses, we're seeing things closer and closer to the beginning (knowing we Wont be able to see all the way back).

    Humans are curious by nature. If we just accept things are what they are and don't ask questions or investigate, this world would be a much worse place.
     
  20. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 Active Member

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    Are you a parent or are you not? That is the question you have been avoiding.
     
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