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Cherry picking your religion

Discussion in 'The OT' started by djlong, Dec 15, 2004.

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  1. Jan 3, 2005 #141 of 222
    HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    A humorous (to me) postulation by George Carlin, from "When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops":


    I find it discouraging and a bit depressing when I notice the unequal treatment afforded by the media to UFO believers on the one hand, and on the other, to those who believe in an invisible supreme being who inhabits the sky. Especially as the latter belief applies to the whole Jesus-Messiah-Son-of-God fable.

    You may have noticed that, in the media, UFO believers are usually referred to as buffs, a term used to diminish and marginalize them by relegating them to the ranks of hobbyists and mere enthusiasts. They are made to seem like kooks and quaint dingbats who have the nerve to believe that, in an observable universe of trillions upon trillions of stars, and most likely many hundreds of billions of potentially inhabitable planets, some of those planets may have produced life-forms capable of doing things that we can't do.

    On the other hand those who believe in an eternal, all-powerful being, a being who demands to be loved and adored unconditionally and who punishes and rewards according to his whims are thought to be worthy, upright, credible people. This, in spite of the large numbers of believers who are clearly close-minded fanatics.

    To my way of thinking, there is every bit as much evidence for the existence of UFOs as there is for the existence of God. Probably far more. At least in the case of UFOs there have been countless taped and filmed and, by the way, unexplained sightings from all over the world, along with documented radar evidence seen by experienced military and civilian radar operators.

    This does not even begin to include the widespread testimony of not only highly trained, experienced military and civilian pilots who are selected for their jobs, in part, for their above-average eyesight and mental stability, but also of equally well-trained, experienced law-enforcement officers. Such pilots and law-enforcement people are known to be serious, sober individuals who would have quite a bit to lose were they to be associated with anything resembling kooky, outlandish beliefs. Nonetheless, they have taken the risk of revealing their experiences because they are convinced they have seen something objectively real that they consider important.

    All of these accounts are ignored by the media.

    Granted, the world of UFO-belief has its share of kooks, nuts and fringe people, but have you ever listened to some of these religious true-believers? Have you ever heard of any extreme, bizarre behavior and outlandish claims associated with religious zealots? Could any of them be considered kooks, nuts or dingbats? A fair person would have to say yes.

    But the marginal people in these two groups don't matter in this argument. What matters is the prejudice and superstition built into the media coverage of the two sets of beliefs. One is treated reverently and accepted as received truth, the other is treated laughingly and dismissed out of hand.

    As evidence of the above premise, I offer one version of a typical television news story heard each year on the final Friday of Lent:

    "Today is Good Friday, observed by Christians worldwide as a day that commemorates the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, whose death redeemed the sins of mankind."

    Here is the way it should be written:

    "Today is Good Friday, observed worldwide by Jesus buffs as the day on which the popular, bearded cultural figure, sometimes referred to as The Messiah, was allegedly crucified and, according to legend, died for mankind's so-called sins. Today kicks off a 'holy' weekend that culminates on Easter Sunday, when, it is widely believed, this dead 'savior', who also, by the way, claimed to be the son of a sky-dwelling, invisible being known as God, mysteriously 'rose from the dead.'

    "According to the legend, by volunteering to be killed and actually going through with it, Jesus saved every person who has ever lived and every person who ever will live from an eternity of suffering in a fiery region popularly known as hell, providing, so the story goes, that the person to be 'saved' firmly believes this rather fanciful tale."

    That would be an example of unbiased news reporting. Don't wait around for it to happen. The aliens will land first.
     
  2. Jan 3, 2005 #142 of 222
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't it surprise me that George Carlin would be your source of spiritual guidance? :lol:

    The guy's in rehab....says it all.... :nono: :rolleyes:
     
  3. Jan 3, 2005 #143 of 222
    djlong

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    Ah yes, attack the messenger, ignore the message.

    George is in rehab of his own free will - painkillers (prescribed) and alcohol. Sounds very similar to what Rush Limbaugh went through except I don't hear any allegations of illegal buys. Same old story, person gets medical procedure done, person gets painkillers to deal with it, person gets addicted.
     
  4. Jan 3, 2005 #144 of 222
    HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    I don't recall saying I took guidance, spiritual or otherwise, from Carlin or anyone else. In fact, since both Carlin and myself are athiests, it is, to say the least, unlikely there would be any spiritual anything betwixt us.

    Carlin's current state is irrelevant to his writings.
     
  5. Jan 3, 2005 #145 of 222
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Then perhaps he wasn't the best person to quote for much of anything.... :D

    I am occasionally entertained by old George from time to time too, but I would guess that his lifelong history of "pseudo-medicated therapy" and radical statements reduces his credibility a bit with most folks... :D

    But I respect your right to have any religious direction you choose. Best wishes! :)
     
  6. Jan 3, 2005 #146 of 222
    RichW

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    Let's face it guys. EVERYONE who believes in a diety "cherry picks" a religion.
     
  7. Jan 3, 2005 #147 of 222
    jonstad

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    Thanx dj, for expressing my thoughts upon reading hdtvfan0001's reply.

    But it's not like it was unexpected. It's a favored tactic whether the diversion is how fat and slovenly Michael Moore is or if John Kerry was bleeding profusely on the brink of death for all three of his Purple Hearts. Strangely enough though(or maybe not so strangely:rolleyes: ), the veracity of an alcoholic, former cocaine using President is never questioned, nor is a theology producing a clergy rife with pride, avarice and pedophilia.

    Carlin's decision to commit himself, to seek help voluntarily, appear to be the actions of a sane, reasonable, objective individual.(And here is the big difference between Carlin and Limbaugh. Carlin acted without being "busted" or from public revelations of his problem. I suspect if Rush hadn't been "outed" by the police and press, he might still be hustling doctors for Oxycontin and by now might be stone deaf)

    Yet, some would have us believe that every word Carlin has ever uttered and every point he has ever made is now tainted and worthless. Of course, this is all because they disagree with the ideas expressed. The logic and rationale are simply uncomfortable, especially because they make way too much sense.
     
  8. Jan 3, 2005 #148 of 222
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he should be commended.

    On the other hand, he's been an admitted illegal doper his whole life, and that must be OK too then, huh? :rolleyes:

    Bottom line - picker another role model folks. (And yes, Michael Moore IS fat!). :lol:
     
  9. Jan 3, 2005 #149 of 222
    jonstad

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    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    You still refuse to address the logic and reasoning of his statement and instead continue to focus on his personal habits. Why? Because it's easier to change the subject then to refute his claims.

    Back TO the subject, I have several times commented there is as much or more evidence for UFOs and extraterrestrials as for "gods". And of course the normal response is to ignore the facts or change the subject. The reason is "gods" are an accepted myth, embraced without proof by a majority of the population. OTOH, UFOs, etc., despite a modicum of debatable "proof", is a myth NOT widely accepted and/or promoted by media and institutions.

    The difference then between religion and UFOs seems to be mostly a big head start and a better PR mechanism. By virtue of "proof" however, neither is by any stretch of the imagination, believable.

    For myself, I don't find the evidence compelling or convincing for either and therefore decline faith in both. In the spirit of full disclosure, I have in the past indulged in illegal drugs but now have forsworn their use, limiting my ingestion to the legal vices of alcohol, caffeine and tobacco.:grin:
     
  10. Jan 3, 2005 #150 of 222
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Organized religion is based on over 2000 years of documentation, physical evidence, and the test of time.

    UFOs are based on the X Files, heresay, and questionable evidence at best.

    Now that we've cleared that up... :rolleyes:

    How the heck did this thread get to UFOs???
     
  11. Jan 3, 2005 #151 of 222
    pjmrt

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    every thread in Potpouri mutates eventually - the better question is why it took so long. :lol: Normally it takes about a day or so.
     
  12. Jan 3, 2005 #152 of 222
    Bogy

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    Just how old are you hdtvfan0001? If you think that UFO's were invented by the X Files you must be pretty young. :lol:
     
  13. Jan 3, 2005 #153 of 222
    SAEMike

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    Because HGL thinks that humorists are on par with scientists and theologians for serious discussion of the beginning of time.
     
  14. Jan 3, 2005 #154 of 222
    pjmrt

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    then everyone who denies the existence of God also "cherry picks" his religeon. As was pointed out earlier I believe (by someone else) - athesism is a religeon itself. People worship something/someone. If not God, then they substitute something else, human philosophy, .... etc. So welcome to the cherry pickers. :D
     
  15. Jan 3, 2005 #155 of 222
    Danny R

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    athesism is a religeon itself. People worship something/someone. If not God, then they substitute something else, human philosophy, .... etc.

    The only way you can make such a statement is to have a definition of "worship" that simply means belief in a certain state of nature.

    Such a weak definition is meaningless, as using the same standard, then I'm also a worshiper of my automobile, TV set, and other appliances, as I have faith they function according to the dictates of science and the mechanics used to create them.

    Now perhaps worshiping my Dish receiver has merit... because its regular functioning is a matter of faith and prayer, but thats a different story.

    So welcome to the cherry pickers.

    I think not. All the science of the world has yet to prove a diety exists. Science is the forest, not just a simple cherry tree inside it.

    The only proofs out there are thousand year old manuscripts preaching of some diety... and such documents aren't exactly unique, as proven by the existence of branch faiths such as the Mormons, Islam, Christian Science, and even Scientology... each having a "new" book that is equally reliable and held as a central pillar of those faiths.

    Simple fact of the matter is that people are easily influenced, and new religions start up spontaneously all the time. Look at all the many cults around the world as proof of this. All it takes is the right set of circumstances for one to "make it big", and pretty soon its a worldwide phenomenon. Religion is no different than the latest pop star. The right bit of talent, bit of luck, and a lot of promotion, and you have a huge success.
     
  16. Jan 3, 2005 #156 of 222
    jonstad

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    :lol::rotfl:

    Without starting this argument all over again, could you please provide verification of this documentation and physical evidence and where we may find it?

    And as amusing as your first two claims are, the "test of time" one is the most hilarious. The "flat Earth" hypothesis passed the "test of time" for quite a while too, largely in the "Christian world" it should be noted. And we could go on. Earth as the center of the Universe and the effects of gravity on objects of different mass also illustrate how reliable the "test of time" is. In fact, the "test of time" is no test at all. It is just widely accepted myth and conjecture with no basis in reality, as is religion, as are UFOs!
     
  17. Jan 4, 2005 #157 of 222
    HappyGoLucky

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    It was, as I wrote, an amusing observation, nothing more. What is it with people like you and reading comprehension? Do conservatives relinquish parts of their cerebral cortex to get their right-wing credentials? Carlin's missive, which I quoted, was topical and cogent, something that cannot be said for your puerile replies.
    Even the most drug-addled mind (Rush Limbaugh?) has more credibility than you.
     
  18. Jan 4, 2005 #158 of 222
    HappyGoLucky

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    That is simply an ignorant statement. Not all people worship something. Just because you feel compelled to worship something does not mean everyone else has that same compulsion. Some of us have simply evolved beyond that primitive urge. :sure:
     
  19. Jan 5, 2005 #159 of 222
    jonstad

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    Apparently the defenders of faith have "left the building".:lol:

    Typical!
     
  20. Jan 5, 2005 #160 of 222
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Not really...we were gone praying for you guys to wake up. :D

    Also, like a good steak, it's time to put a fork in this thing because it's done. :lol:
     
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