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Church denies funeral for gay bar owner

Discussion in 'The OT' started by HappyGoLucky, Mar 19, 2005.

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  1. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    SUMMARY: San Diego's Roman Catholic bishop has denied funeral rites to a man who owned a bar and a dance club popular with gays, citing a clash with the Church's moral teachings.



    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...50319/co_po/churchdeniesfuneralforgaybarowner

    I particular like the part where:

    Valdivia cited a Church canon that states "manifest sinners" are among those who cannot be granted funeral rites "without public scandal to the faithful."

    Valdivia could not recall any examples of other cases in which the diocese has invoked the canon to deny funeral rites to Catholics.​
    Evidently, every other person in that diocese who has been granted a funeral over the past, oh, several hundred years, has been a saint.
     
  2. SamC

    SamC Hall Of Fame

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    Imagine that. A private institution deciding its private issues about what it does and does not believe without consulting you.

    The next thing you know people will be speaking freely, having a free press, electing representatives to decide on their own laws, and keeping their own property. They might even peacefully petition the government for redress of grievances. Why we simply cannot have people exercising their religion freely.

    Don't like the teachings of the Catholic (or whatever) Church. Start your own. Or ignore the matter. Its a FREE country, despite your wishes.
     
  3. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Sorry that you don't like the Church's hypocrisy revealed for all to see. I can understand why that might upset you. I would like to know where I, or anyone else, advocated that this church or any other church be prevented from exercising their rights? I nor anyone else in the article mentioned anything about government interference, so why do you? If you want to comment ON THE TOPIC, please do so, but do not try to insinuate something that isn't relevant or factual.
     
  4. billpa

    billpa Icon

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    Jul 11, 2003
    Ignore the matter? Well, that's a great idea...of course we'll have to shut down the potpourri forums.
     
  5. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    A private institution deciding its private issues about what it does and does not believe without consulting you.
    ...
    Why we simply cannot have people exercising their religion freely


    You are out of line Sam. HGL didn't say anywhere that they didn't have the right to do as they will. Nobody has said they don't have that right.

    He is simply pointing out their sudden decision to denying funeral rights when they never have before.

    Don't like the teachings of the Catholic (or whatever) Church. Start your own. Or ignore the matter.

    Changing churches isn't exactly an option for the deceased, unless you expect him to reanimate and change his ways so he can get a funeral. But it is an option for those of us who are still alive and might wish to know about this new policy.

    And such a sudden policy change is certainly news worthy, even for those of us who are not members of that particular organization.

    The next thing you know people will be speaking freely, having a free press ...

    Your slamming of HGL for bringing this news to our attention is the most disturbing issue here as far as freedom of people to do as they choose.
     
  6. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    No big deal, I consider it customary and expected, now.
     
  7. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    He can come to my church, we'll bury him.
     
  8. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    Well here's the lying hypocrisy.
    McCusker's "business is described thusly-"a bar and a dance club popular with gays".

    So if "sexual orientation" is not at issue here, what is? "A bar and dance club"?

    May we assume in future then this dioceses will not grant rites and services to others involved in bars and/or dance clubs? With no regard to sexual orientation? Yeah, right!:sure:

    And what about other purveyors of "adult entertainment"? Should liquor store owners be denied church privilages? What about a store owner who sells cigarettes?

    I don't deny the church as a "private institution" has the right to deny their services to anyone they wish, even though in this case it is a "private institution" with special tax status and solicits membership and donations from the general public. I do believe it appropriate though to point out the hypocrisy and outright lies they use to hide behind.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    Imagine that...irony of ironies!

    Some bitter old atheist complaining about what a private religious organization does or doesn't do. Isn't that dribbling out of both sides of your mouth?

    Who gives a flying f*** if you want some dead gay bartender to have a church funeral. Start your own damned church and stop whining about everything and everyone around you!

    I got sick and tired of your putrid effluence a long, long time ago. :rolleyes:

    :D
     
  10. lazaruspup

    lazaruspup Godfather

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    How hypocritical is it that this dead bartender probably served most of the diocese a couple of drinks and a few lap dances too.... :goodandba
     
  11. DishDude1

    DishDude1 Godfather

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    I bet they would have a funeral for Scott Peterson.
     
  12. jonstad

    jonstad Hall Of Fame

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    As a "bitter old atheist", I DON'T give a flying f*** about gay bartenders or church funerals.:shrug:

    I would imagine at least some of his friends and family, ensconced as they probably are in the irrationality of religion, do care. Otherwise I assume they would not have sought a "church funeral". I am merely pointing out the outright lies and hypocrisy used to deny these services. I doubt that ever in the past this dioceses has denied rites based on the business orientation of the "adult entertainment" of "a bar and dance club" as long as it doesn't cater to gays. And I doubt they will ever do so in the future. And this is certainly their right. But to deny this particular decision is based on "sexual orientation" is certainly hypocrisy AND a lie!

    As an institution, the Catholic Church has only recently found it embarrassing to stage massive funerals for murdering mafia thugs almost certainly involved in many of the baser aspects of "adult entertainment", sometimes perhaps including gay bars and dance clubs! Of course while shying away from such public spectacles that could be widely publicized by the press, they have no qualms about offering their less public rites like communion, confession and marriage(as long as it's not gay marriage:rolleyes: ) to these same mafia dons, captains and street thugs, and naturally no qualms whatsoever about accepting their monetary donations, gay or not.
     
  13. waydwolf

    waydwolf Icon

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    The biggest thing here is that HGL once again engages in his endless crusade against anything that doesn't approve of or embrace much less sing the praises of his aetheistic gayness. It's the kind of overly self-centered zealous behaviour my gay friends and family members utterly despise.

    HGL, either you're going to have to get it through and understood and accepted that not everyone approves of your beliefs much less practices them or you're going to spend the rest of your life just as miserable as you are right this moment. At the very least, can you control the insufferable compulsion to attack every vestige of mom, apple pie, normality, and everything else that you don't see as being sufficiently obedient to whatever you imagine your personal party line to be?

    There are sh*tloads of things, people, organizations, and whatnot that I don't care for but I have better things to do than be concerned about them for more than 0.5ms much less become an obsessive snot.

    So drop it already. You'll be happier, calmer, with more time in your life for better things.
     
  14. Bogy

    Bogy Hall Of Fame

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    Dang it Jon, I was hoping to do your funeral. I figured your estate would be glad to pay my way over to the islands to send you off in style. :)

    waydwolf, lots of people here have their own agendas and they keep starting thread after thread on the same old subject. Like when we had about six threads devoted to Swift Boat Vets. :rolleyes:
     
  15. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    I don't know if I'd brag about that one - "bring us the dead, the decaying and we will give them rest?" :lol:
     
  16. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Why do I have the feeling that had that Catholic church given him a funeral, it would have been the first time he'd set foot in the church?

    SamC is right. If they are upset with the policy, go to another church. If you ask me, the friends and family of this guy waited a bit too long to worry about his lifestyle. Its sad because very probably yet another soul has been added to hell, but it was his choice.
     
  17. Spruceman

    Spruceman Legend

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    Consistent with the Church's "benign neglect" during WWII when Hitler was killing off the Jews, the Gypsies, and gay people. I guess the Church considers being gay worse than Mafia hit men as they don't deny them a Church funeral. I wrote off the Church when I was told that I couldn't take communion because I'm not Catholic. How's that for being ecumenical?
     
  18. pjmrt

    pjmrt Hall Of Fame

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    Do you have evidence for any of that?? I doubt it. Well other than not taking communion because your not Catholic. I'm not Catholic and don't agree with some of their teaching. But their own policies regarding church ordinances are theirs! Don't condemn them because they follow their own policies. If anything, they should be applauded for standing by what they believe. In my church, when we observe the ordance of the Lord's Supper, the only restriction is that one be a Christian. But that's how our denomination does it. I don't fault the Catholic church for just offering communion to fellow Catholics.

    And like I said, show me where the church provided funerals for known mafia hit men. And WWII? If I remember correctly, there were priests sentenced to those death camps too.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    To my way of thinking, the business of organized religion is about control. There a handful of churches that control their followers better than others. I won't name any names, but I'm sure most of you know to which church organizations I am referring.
     
  20. n8dagr8

    n8dagr8 Resident Rounder DBSTalk Gold Club

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    for the right price, i thought the catholic church would do anything! :eek2:

    sorry, that wasn't nice.
     
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