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Combine AT9 Dish w/ Existing SatC Dish? Trees!

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by litzdog911, Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. Dec 7, 2007 #281 of 529
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Here is how I used six splitters and a power source to make my two combiners. The splitters have diode isolated power paths, which means they don't pass the dc voltages "backwards" through them. As a result, you can't just use a splitter as a combiner in this application because the 13 or 18 VDC needs to pass (the 22KHz also needs to pass, but it will, as will the satellite signal, it's just the DC that's the problem).

    Kluge Combiner.jpg

    Carl

    Edit: Hmmm, looks like some of the lines didn't post right, but I think you can fill in the gaps.
     
  2. Dec 7, 2007 #282 of 529
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It "seems" fine to me.
     
  3. Dec 7, 2007 #283 of 529
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    One more update. Just got a pair of the Channel Vision splitter/combiners delivered, and they DO work properly. I am now configured like the third solution shown in post 164 of this thread, except I'm (a) using the modified Slimline dish, (b) using the Channel Vision combiners, rather than the Holland, and (c) I am not using the Sonora.

    Carl
     
  4. Dec 7, 2007 #284 of 529
    litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic Carl! Excellent work.

    I updated the summary post (#164) to link to your instructions and photos as a FOURTH option.
     
  5. Dec 8, 2007 #285 of 529
    Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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    Have been following this thread with interest since last year. You guys should be commended for your sticktoittiveness and ingenuity. Great stuff.

    I’ve long enjoyed D* with my 1.8M dish (yes, 1.8M, don’t laugh – a remnant from a previous job that I’ve never bothered to update) with a dual LNB locked into the 101 satellite. I get cable as part of the HOA dues, so my interest in D* has always been for the ST and various other channels that all exist on the 101.

    Your efforts have me thinking about upgrading to HD. I see from Lyngsat that the channels I’m interested in all appear on the 103 and the 101 - no need for the 99, 110, or 119. I have an old 18” dual LNB dish in the garage that is collecting dust. My questions are:

    1) Can I set up that old 18” dish and tune into the 103 with it? Or do I need a special LNB to acquire a Ka signal?

    2) If I can indeed set up the old dish to capture the 103 (or use the 18” dish to get the 101 and set up the 1.8M to capture the 103), is there a way to combine the “signal” from the two dishes and connect it to my soon-to-be acquired H21?

    Sorry about such a long post from a newbie. I really have followed this thread closely, watched the Ka/Ku videos on SolidSignal and felt that you guys would be the appropriate forum for this inquiry.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Dec 8, 2007 #286 of 529
    doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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  7. Dec 8, 2007 #287 of 529
    litzdog911

    litzdog911 Well-Known Member

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    1. I'm not aware of any Ka-band LNB kit that will work with the 18" round dish. You need the special dish/LNB kit described by doctorj.

    2. No, unless you use the special dish/LNBs described by doctorj.

    For your situation it would probably be easiest to just get a SlimLine 5-LNB dish. DirecTV will provide and install one for free if you upgrade to an HD Receiver (H20/H21) or HD DVR (HR20/HR21).
     
  8. Dec 8, 2007 #288 of 529
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Actually, the larger the diameter the dish, the narrow the focus at the satellite orbit. I'm not sure you could get a 1.8M dish to see 101 and 103 at the same time, even if you used the correct LNB. Unless it was a non-round dish specifically designed for that application.

    If you are seriously interested in getting an H21, my suggestion would be to also get a Slimline dish for it.

    Carl
     
  9. Dec 8, 2007 #289 of 529
    Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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    Very helpful, guys. Thanks.

    Let me see if I get this:

    1) The LNB kit mentioned by Doctor J in post 286 would work with my 1.8M dish, provided I could find a way to mount the LNB and adjust the dish properly.

    2) And that LNB kit would allow me to obtain all the channels on the 103.

    3) Whether or not I could use the 1.8M dish to simultaneously get the 103 and 101 is not clear. In fact, I think that Carl is correct in that the focus of my 1.8 is likely too narrow to see both satellites at once.

    4) Point taken (and a good point, at that) that I should just upgrade to a slimline.

    5) In theory, though, I *could* acquire the LNB kit, attach it to my 1.8 dish, lock that dish onto the 103….and then put up my 18” dish just for the 101. Correct?

    6) And, if D* is moving towards more MPEG4 channels on the 103, in the future I might be able to get away with my 1.8 dish together with the LNB kit locked into the 103. Make sense? Just trying to understand the technology differences/requirements for this Ka band stuff....and how it fits with the old gear.

    Thanks again for your help.
     
  10. Dec 8, 2007 #290 of 529
    doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    The DTVAHKAKUKIT is a Ka & KU LNB designed for the Pro Brand International (aka: Eagle-Aspen) 1.2 meter offset dish. Some info i've reviewed does address usage with a 1.8 m dish for even more "fringe" areas. The difference is that these dishes are offset as opposed to prime focus for C band sats. The LNB mounts can be adjustable as per FTA dishes and multiple sats can be seen , it just requires a lot more tweaking as opposed to the standard dishes with their focal points factory set.

    Doctor j
     
  11. Dec 8, 2007 #291 of 529
    Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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    I see and I get it, I think.

    So, the DTVAHKAKUKIT sees both Ka and Ku band signals, whereas the LNBs used on the old D* 18” dishes (and currently on my 1.8M dish) only see the Ku band.

    By any chance, do you have a pic of that kit or a digital copy of the manual that might come with it? Since I like to tinker, I’m curious how I could mount it to my 1.8.

    Finally, would the WB68 multiswitch allow me to combine the signals from the KuKa-kit and from the small dish locked into the 101, if I wanted to go that route?

    Thanks.
     
  12. Dec 8, 2007 #292 of 529
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Also consider that 99 will have conus beams for expanded HD offerings after the next satellite launch. So in order to be prepared for all current and future HD offerings from DirecTV, you will need to also see 99.

    With respect to using separate dishes for 101 and 103, you are going to have to find a way to have separate or isolated LNB's for each. If you use a combined 99/101/103 LNB, I'm not sure you would be able to use a separate 101 only and retain the ability to access both 99 and 103 (103 alone yes, 99 and 103 no) due to the way DirecTV has mixed 99/101 without tone and 103/110/119 with tone.

    Carl
     
  13. Dec 8, 2007 #293 of 529
    Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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    What I'm thinking, just for fun, is to use the combined LNB on my 1.8M dish to access only the 103 and then a separate LNB and dish to access only 101. From your post, Carl, I think that should work, right? As long as I'm not expecting to access the 103 AND 99 through the combined LNB....

    As for next year....when the 99 starts carrying the conus beams, I could switch to a 2 dish setup, each with a combined LNB, with one accessing 99 and the other 103., yes?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Dec 9, 2007 #294 of 529
    carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Combining signals from multiple dishes will work when you do not have the same signal from both dishes at the same time.

    Combining signals from multiple dishes will not work if you do have the same signal from both dishes at the same time.

    What makes this complicated in trying to determine what can or cannot be mixed (as far as varying LNB assemblies) is the switching voltage/tone combinations that are used.

    RHCP 13V: 99 odd, 101 odd
    LHCP 18V: 99 even, 101 even
    RHCP 13V 22KHz: 103 odd, 119 odd.
    LHCP 18V 22KHz: 103 even, 110/119 even.

    If you use a 3-LNB assembly designed for 99, 101, and 103, you will not be able to use a separate dish for 99 or 101, as there is no way to isolate that request in an external multiswitch.

    So you could set up one dish for 99 and 101, and a second dish for 103, if your heart was set on doing so. But you could not set up one dish for 99 and a separate dish for 101. Even if the dish is not seeing the satellite, the LNB assembly is generating an IF frequency for it, and when you have the IF for a given satellite/polarization coming from two different LNB assemblies at the same time, they will conflict.

    Carl
     
  15. jbraden

    jbraden AllStar

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    You should be able to use a Zinwell 6x8 multiswitch to do as you describe, using two wires from the 101 dish to the non-tone inputs and two wires from the 103 dish to the 22KHz tone inputs. For now, that would get you a lot of the new Ka band HD channels. The dish you talk about for next year will need to pick up the 99 and 101 from the same combined LNB. On the other hand, DirecTV requires a 2-year committment whenever you activate an HD receiver or DVR, so assuming you've got a clear view, I agree with litzdog911 that you should just let them install a Slimline for free.
     
  16. Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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    Thanks, folks. All very helpful. I think I now have a better understanding of how I might make the multi-dish setup work for me, if I decide to go that route, which I might be forced to given the dodgy (think forest) views that I have here.

    A friend as a Super Buddy meter. Do I need the KaKu LNB in order to tune into the 103 at all or could I try to allign my current dish (with the old LNB) and see the 103? I assume I need the new LNB, even just to align the dish to the 103 but I want to double check.....
     
  17. jbraden

    jbraden AllStar

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    You need the KaKu LNB. There are two satellites in the 103 slot, but they are both Ka band. The signals are stacked in three IF frequency ranges going to the multiswitch. Ka-Lo (250-750MHz) and Ka-Hi (1650-2150MHz) come from the 103 satellite, and Ku (950-1450 MHz) comes from the combined 110 and 119 satellites. These stacked signals go to the 22KHz tone side of the multiswitch. The 99 (Ka) and 101 (Ku) satellites are stacked the same way on the non-tone inputs of the multiswitch.
     
  18. Mukbar

    Mukbar Mentor

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  19. Bill Broderick

    Bill Broderick Icon

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    Mukbar,
    If you do need to go the multi-dish route and are looking for an AT9 (Sidecar) dish, in order to do a multi-dish installation, let me know. I still have one left. I thought that I needed a multi-dish install because the DirecTV installer told me that I didn't have LOS and then the guy that I hired proved the first guy wrong.

    I've already sold one to a DBSTalk member and would rather sell the other one to someone here rather than selling it on ebay.
     
  20. Hamese

    Hamese Cool Member

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    About this time last year I posted in here with my solution for using a second dish for the 110 sat in conjunction with a slimline for all others. It was a simple solution that worked for a while and basically was the same as below without the sonora. I since lost signal to the 110 because of tress again... possibly, but I have realigned and gained signal again.

    Last night I was going though everything and when I came across a channel that I know is on the 110, like TNT-HD, I saw flashes of other channels and with different audio. A message appeared talking about a problem with the multiswitch. My local HD channels also stopped working. When I unplugged the Satc cable then all started working again, except channels from 110.

    I guess my question is, would this option be viable since I do not need a seperate dish for the 119?

    [​IMG]

    Another reason why I might have a multiswitch problem is because the signal I believe is from the 110 is actually from another sat. I do not really think this is true, but it might be possible.
     
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