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Could the BETA and VHS war be happening again?

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Chris Blount, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    BTW, Jim Jones predates VHS vs Beta.

    I beg to differ, but for a lot of people it's the company first followed by personal needs. And, let’s face it, in everyday use there’s very little difference between the iPhone and a comparable Android phone. It mostly comes down to personal preference.

    With that said, IMO, the iPhone isn't going any where and neither is Android.

    Mike
     
  2. HDJulie

    HDJulie Icon DBSTalk Club

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    I'm no apple fanatic but I love the iPhone, I love the iPad, & I appreciate finally being able to use my phone without having to remember in what submenu the item that I want is located. I also appreciate that every single person in my family over the age of 11 can also use the phone without a major learning curve. 3 years ago we never texted or sent picture messages or emailed while at the grocery store. Now, we do that all of the time. Apple opened up a world to my family & I am impressed with what they (Apple) have done. I'm not going to buy a Mac. I'm not going to get an Apple TV. I might even one day get another kind of phone now that everyone else has iPhone like phones available. Apple as a company is a control freak & I agree that they are never going to rule the world, but I hope they never go away nor lose whatever it is that makes them so able to create user-friendly items & force the rest of the competition to keep up.
     
  3. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Slightly off topic, Jim Jones doesn't pre-date VHS vs. Beta, they were contemporaries. Beta introduced in 1975, VHS in 1977, Jonestown was 1978. The VHS/Beta war continued thru to early 1980's but it already was pretty much a forgone conclusion--unless Sony changed their tactics. They didn't, Beta died. (And the story is so much more than just "porn", "content", or even "quality".) :)

    There are some parallels (that I wasn't aware of). Apple is marketing and positioning quality as a means for a higher price. (Just like Sony.)

    Apple is trying to drive some format war in the content side of things--but that has been very much nullified by converters that everyone is making. :)

    Apple does control their ecology by limiting 3rd party manufacturers, software development, etc.

    But, Apple isn't trying to get the whole marketplace--they are ignoring a lot of people who want inexpensive features. So competition reigns on.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  4. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Well put. I think that is what attracted me to Apple the most. It seems the older I get, the less I want to fiddle with things.
     
  5. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Actually...there's an iPhone and iPad in the house this very moment... ;)

    Yet neither are used by me daily...I've used them both enough to know I don't yet see the value or wouldn't pay those prices for one myself...not to this point anyway. But I have sipped Koolaid.

    Neither the APPLE or ANDROID worlds rule here quite yet...so we'll see how the "war" goes... :D
     
  6. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    We really need to look no further than Linux... IF the people truly wanted openness more than splash and familiarity... then Windows would have tanked years ago once Linux made the scene.

    I like Linux actually... but it isn't gaining significant ground to the average home user even though it is as open as an operating system can be... so why hasn't the public jumped all over it and all the free software available for it that you can configure and even re-compile as you wish?

    Because being open isn't the major factor pushing the success of these things to the average consumer.

    Techies might want open... but the techie share of the market wouldn't be enough to sustain most companies longterm... companies like Apple need more people to adopt than just the techie.

    It's a lot like comic book adapted movies. Whenever a comic is adapted to a movie, comic fans complain that stuff was changed from the comic... and why can't it be like the comic... But the comic typically sells 50,000-100,000 if it is a popular one... and if those are the only people that see the movie, the studio would tank in a hurry! So they have to appeal to the masses... and the masses usually don't care if it is 100% faithful to the comic that they probably haven't read anyway... and the movie studio pisses off a few comic fans who swear to never see the movie... while millions of other people go see it and make the studio money.

    Same for the phones... the techies will complain about wanting an open architecture and want to configure "their" phone the way they want... but they aren't the majority of a successful market. Apple will market to the people who want a specific set of features, the ability to buy some additional apps, and the ability to pick it up and turn it on and have it work like they expect every time... and most of those people don't care about open architecture.
     
  7. mikeny

    mikeny Hall Of Fame

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    Isn't that what many people think put Blu-Ray ahead of HD DVD?
     
  8. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone DBSTalk Club

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    No, I've never heard anyone state that. Porn was available on HD-DVD and BD, and initially it was HD-DVD only.
     
  9. mikeny

    mikeny Hall Of Fame

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    I guess you're right. However, according to this blog http://jeffreydonenfeld.com/blog/2008/01/the-war-is-over-blu-ray-wins/ Sony's late decision to support the industry helped "seal the deal".

    "Next up, the porn industry…

    ......In addition to the major movie studio support, the other deciding factor is porn. Yep, the porn industry, like it or not, has a major role in selecting consumer AV formats. I believe it’s hw the VHS-Beta war was won, and was a key deciding factor for the blu-ray/hd-dvd war. The way I understand this whole situation is.. before just recently, Sony (blu-ray’s major backing body) didn’t endorse the porn industries use of blu-ray. No, they didn’t ban it or do anything to stop it, per se, they just didn’t do anything to help it along with the format. The hd-dvd camp did, however, and thus took over a decent market share. Now that Sony has begun to help out, and really make accommodations for porn to be released on blu-ray, the deal is sealed, and blu-ray will rise to the top."
     
  10. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    ?? Reverse logic?

    BD didn't support porn and it still succeeded? Only when BD added support for porn? But HD already had lots of support and failed?

    Sorry, that logic doesn't fly with me.

    I do think porn is an influence, but not nearly as large as some of the other influences (at least in the Beta/VHS story.)

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  11. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone DBSTalk Club

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    The first porn Blu Ray's shipped in mid-January 2008. Toshiba announced it had lost the format war on January 16th, 2008.

    Porn had nothing to do with the HD-DVD/BD war.
     
  12. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    And I am mystified as how a hardware mfg. either supports or doesn't support a particular industry segment- in this case porn- how do they do that? Refuse to sell burners/pressers to those who don't sign that they'll release only PG16 and above? Mideny, please enlighten!
     
  13. mikeny

    mikeny Hall Of Fame

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    I don't think there was any reverse logic. I think they (Sony) may have been on the fence. Then when they lent support, they put themselves over the top.
     
  14. bobukcat

    bobukcat Hall Of Fame

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    The Internet has made what format you can or can't buy porn on nearly irrelevant!
     
  15. bobukcat

    bobukcat Hall Of Fame

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    I think you're analogy here is a little flawed with regards to the Android / iPhone (I refuse to call it iOS - that's what Cisco routers run) in that Linux is pretty user unfriendly for non-technical people. Android on the other hand is very user friendly and resemble the iPhone s/w in a lot of ways but includes not only the ability to hack the phone (more so than iPhone) if you chose but also is much more customizable. You want a different browser, home screen, dialer, music player, etc. - not a problem on Android but it is on iPhone - yet the Android device is still very intuitive and user-friendly.
     
  16. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That's the fun reasoning people like to use. IMHO, the biggest advantage was how many hours you could fit on a tape and the cost.

    IIRC, the max VHS recording time wound up being ten-ish hours (I still have a couple of those T-210 tapes laying around) on a tape while Betamax was something like five. One VHS tape was cheaper than two Betas.

    Then there was the cost of the machine. VHS was cheaper and recorded more. IMHO, that’s why VHS won out in the end.

    However, Android and iPhone smart phones are nearly identically in functionality and cost. I have no idea what could be the deciding factor here.

    There is one advantage Androids currently have that it’s likely iPhones won’t every have. My Captivate has a replaceable battery and an SD card slot for expandability (I added a 16GB card). It doesn’t appear iPhone will ever have either of these.

    Mike
     
  17. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The average user, though, doesn't hack or customize apps/browsers like the techies do.

    The average user of Windows 7 probably uses the IE browser that comes with it... Similarly lots of Mac users are fine with Safari because it comes bundled.

    I use Firefox myself... but IF I had never been given the choice of using Firefox... I would probably have adjusted to IE on my PC and Safari on my Mac.

    I have no problems using Safari on my iPhone and iPad... and haven't found myself wanting Firefox on those devices... and I'm usually more of a techie myself.

    I just don't think the discussions we have on boards/forums like this are representative of the masses... Home computers and smartphones didn't become commonplace in the average user's home until they were mostly plug 'n play... and most of those users really don't know how to customize their devices even if they wanted to. I'm not saying they are dumb... just saying their interest level isn't high enough to warrant learning how.
     
  18. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Bingo, bingo, and a hidden bingo.

    Sony (apparently) tried to play the quality game so priced everything somewhat higher: machines, tapes, etc. VHS played the lots of manufacturers, lower prices, and longer recording time from the very beginning.

    To catch up on the recording time, Sony seems to have ended up with video quality that was the same as VHS. And too little too late.

    The smartphone and tablet market doesn't have any killer bottlenecks. Content is easily created for all the platforms. Apps are routinely cross developed. The phones work on most networks... (though the iFamily, by avoiding t-mobile and verizon have limited themselves tremendously.)

    So there just isn't a reason it must be one or the other. And many will survive.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     

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