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Court OKs TV Rules Opposed by Comcast, Cablevision

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Bob Coxner, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Icon

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  2. ffemtreed

    ffemtreed Icon

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    good news!
     
  3. jrodfoo

    jrodfoo Godfather

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    great news!!!! Hopefully CSN Philly shows up in the next year..
     
  4. celticpride

    celticpride Icon

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    Really great news! its about time,I never did understand why a cable company would want MORE customers paying to watch their channels,In the the long run i think its win, win for everybody.
     
  5. Beerstalker

    Beerstalker Hall Of Fame

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    The cable company wants you to have to have their service in order to get the channel. For example in Philly if you are a sports fan you pretty much have to have Comcast service otherwise you miss out on a lot of your teams games. That means Comcast get $45 a month from that customer. If D* offered the Philly sports networks that customer might decide to get D* service instead so now Comcast only makes about $5/month off of him (since he now gets multiple Comcast owned channels that D* pays Comcast to carry). So Comcast is missing out on $40 a month.

    Now what Comcast needs to realize is that there very well could be 8 other customers who have some other provider that would then change their packages to get the Comcast owned channels through them. Because of those 8 people Comcast now makes the same amount of money as they did before (the other provider pays $5 a month to Comcast for those 8 customers 8*5=40 plus the 5 from the original customer).

    Comcast also needs to realize if more people have access to the channel, more people will watch it. More people watching the channel means they can charge more for advertising.

    The problem here is Comcast probably has more experience predicting their own churn, profits, etc. based on their own customers. They don't really know how many customers would leave to go to a different provider, or how many customers from other providers would add their channels if available. Because of that they try to err on the side of what they know.

    *** I made up all the monetary amounts to show how my theories go. I have no idea what the real numbers would be. ***
     
  6. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

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    Comcast makes more by renting you there box for $10-$15+ each.
     
  7. Barry in Conyers

    Barry in Conyers Godfather

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    Don't get too optimistic; Comcast has enough Philadelphia lawyers to keep this court decision under appeal for a long time.
     
  8. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    ...and the money and stamina to use them... :eek2:
     
  9. n3ntj

    n3ntj Hall Of Fame

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    Comcrap and CV will use every single possible means to prevent D* and E* from gaining access to networks that they control. If it takes going to 10 appeals courts, we all know that Comcrap will try it. I don't expect to see CSN Philly on D* until at least this fall. Their lawyers will get very very rich in the process.
     
  10. wilbur_the_goose

    wilbur_the_goose Hall Of Fame

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    This fall? I started with D* about 2 months after PRISM went kaput and CSN-Philly started. The only time I see CSN-Philly is when I'm at the local Stadium Grille in Uwchlan, PA.

    It is a darn good RSN - probably as good as NESN.

    But I just can't figure out why Comcast let FIOS have it... I'm lucky enough to be able to get D*, E*, C* and F* (DirecTV, Echostar, Comcast, FIOS) where I live. I chose D* in spite of no local sports, which is really starting to get to me. Boy, I really want this station.

    (Just for the fun of it, I contacted C* about the cost for their cheapest service which would provide CSN. They promised to get back to me, but still haven't called.... Kinda tells you a lot about C*'s customer service. We may moan about D*, but they're SOOO much better than C* that there's no comparison).
     
  11. n3ntj

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    When the FCC announced the end of the loophole, a local TV station did a story about it and out of 5 current Comcrap customers that they interviewed if they'd leave Comcrap if CSN Philly were available on D* or E*, 4 people said they'd leave in a heartbeat. The 5th person said he'd think about leaving.
     
  12. ajc68

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    Jan 23, 2008
  13. wilbur_the_goose

    wilbur_the_goose Hall Of Fame

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    I still have a hunch they'll fight the terrestrial loophole for as long as they can.
     
  14. Lem

    Lem Cool Member

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    I'm still confused. Does all of this crap mean that Phillies games on Comcast Philly will be on MLBEI this season?
     
  15. JoeTheDragon

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    THE MLB in the has FORCED them to have CSN Philly on MLB EI for them to be able to have MLB network and MLB EI.
     
  16. jpl

    jpl Hall Of Fame

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    Couple points about this article. First, based on how I read it, this doesn't have to do with the terrestrial loophole per se. It just says that channels/programming cannot be denied to other providers. I think this is a very important step for finally getting rid of the loophole (I know - the FCC sorta closed the loophole in January... more on that in a second). However, for now, the loophole I would imagine overrides this. So, for example, if Comcast has a channel that they broadcast via satellite (say Vs.) they can't deny the channel to other providers. But what about channels (e.g. CSN Philly) that they broadcast terrestrially? I think it means that, until the loophole really is kaput, they can still deny those channels to other providers. That being said, the concept of denying programming is interesting. What does this ruling say about, say, baseball games that are carried via MLB EI. Are those still going to be denied to companies like DirecTV? I know that some Phillies games have made it on DirecTV via MLB EI, but those seem to be very few and far between (not that I have DirecTV or MLB EI - just basing it off of comments I read on here). I don't know what this particular ruling says about that, but again if I read this right, it means that they can't deny programming to other providers.

    Next, as for the one comment that Comcast will appeal this through various courts ad infinitum... um, they can't. The later post that Comcast decided not to appeal may sound very magnanamous of them, but really they have no choice. Why? Because this ruling was upheld by the DC court of appeals... the second highest court in the land. The only avenue left for appeals for them... go to the supreme court. Given the cost of doing such a thing, and the likelihood that the SC would even hear such a case, I have to guess that Comcast decided that the chance for success (of even getting to the SC) was really small.

    What remains to be seen is what happens for real with the loophole. I know it sounds like the FCC closed the loophole for good... but in reality they didn't, and there are avenues which can delay DirecTV from getting CSN Philly. First, the decision allows for providers to bring cases to the FCC on a channel by channel basis. In order for DirecTV to get CSN Philly, they have to bring the case to the FCC, and the FCC will review each on a case by case basis. That being said, I have a really hard time believing that DirecTV would be denied CSN Philly if they brought the case to the FCC, once the appeal period has ended. Finally, there is one other avenue to prevent the closing of the loophole - they can go to court. There's concern that the FCC doesn't have the authority to close the loophole, since it was a creation of a congressional act. That avenue will most definitely be taken by CV and Comcast.

    One last point - in terms of whether it makes more sense for Comcast to allow CSN Philly to more customers... I would encourage folks - if you can find it - to read the filing that Verizon submitted to the FCC to urge the closing of the loophole. Even though Verizon hasn't had issue with Comcast (we get CSN Philly on FiOS), they still used CSN Philly, and how it affects both DirecTV and Dish, to prove the point of their complaint. Their finding states that DBS penetration in the Philly and San Diego areas are very low (anyone who lives here in the Philly area can attest to that - I live in a neighborhood of a couple hundred houses, and I can count on one hand the number of satellite dishes here). San Diego apparently isn't quite as bad as the Philly region, but they're still below the national average in terms of penetration. Here in the Philly region DBS penetration is 40% below the average for a market of this size... 40%. The one thing that both Philly and SD have in common - RSNs being restricted from the DBS companies. If Comcast loses CSN Philly to DirecTV, they will lose ALOT of customers. When I was a DirecTV customer, it was the number one reason that folks I talked to said they wouldn't switch to DirecTV. You can get a sense of this with the penetration of FiOS in this region - it's extremely high.

    I know this is anecdotal, but my wife and I have been shopping around for a new house for close to a year and a half. As we went into houses (and we've seen several dozen), I've done an informal tally of who the current owners use as a TV service provider. Easily in the number 1 slot - FiOS. It's not even close. Second is Comcast... a distant third is DirecTV followed by Dish (I think of all the houses we looked at maybe 2 had Dish - in fact there were more houses without a TV service provider than there were Dish customers). The point of all that - if Comcast loses CSN Philly, they will lose many customers in this region - I've said this before but it bears repeating... I've never seen a company so reviled in their own backyard as Comcast is - it's the company that everyone around here loves to hate.
     
  17. n3ntj

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    Agreed.. I am adjacent to Philly and there'd be a huge sucking sound to other providers (D* or E*) if Comcrap wasn't the only provider of CSN Philly in our area. Verizon doesn't offer FiOS here yet, but does in the Harrisburg area where CSN Philly HD is provided.

    Something nobody has mentioned yet, pertains to if Comcrap would provide the CSN Philly HD signal to other providers like D* or if they'd try to get by the new FCC regs by saying they only have to give the SD signal. Of course, other carriers would want the HD signal, but I'm just curious if Comcrap could try to play that game.
     
  18. wilbur_the_goose

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    n3tj - Comcast's buddies Cablevision have certainly done that.

    jpl - you're right. I live in Chester County, and everybody I know hates Comcast. But they won't switch to FIOS (widely available here) because they dislike change (as all good Philly natives are wont to think)
     
  19. Castlebill

    Castlebill Legend

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    By the way, the Flyers game, on Philly CSN, was on Center Ice today.
     
  20. Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Icon

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    There's the law and then there is politics. CV may well appeal the loss of the terrestial loophole but Comcast has bigger fish to fry. They want to make nice to the FCC to get approval for the NBC deal. Fighting the FCC in court is not the politically correct way to win points for a merger that has to be approved by the FCC.

    Yes, they may lose quite a few customers in Philly when the loophole is closed but the dollars are a tiny, tiny drop in a bucket compared to the NBC deal.

    I'll make a moderate wager than Comcast lets this sleeping dog lie. CV will probably fight.
     

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