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Crap, they got me!

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by C*Tedesco, May 30, 2005.

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  1. cdru

    cdru Hall Of Fame

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    I might not know what I'm missing, but I know what you are missing. Free time. What is that, 250 channels or so?

    As to active theft vs passive theft, it's still theft. If you know about it and take advantage of it without notifying TPTB, then you are just as someone who climbed the pole. If you notify TPTB and they chose to ignore you, then it becomes a question of morals as to if you take advantage of their lack of action. Disclaimer: I passively "stole" CATV a few years back when Comcast wasn't in the habit of putting filters on the line for non-CATV internet subscribers. And I did notify them and they shrugged me off saying that they didn't have enough filters at the time and basically said "enjoy the service".
     
  2. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I would never go split my neighbor's cable... or buy a bootleg decoder box or anything like that... and generally I am the first to complain with a problem AND the first to report an error in my favor, but I'll tell ya what I've learned from experience.

    IF a company makes an error in their favor (any company be it satellite, cable, phone, grocery store, whatever)... YOU have to call them, have to provide proof upon proof and negotiate through all their hoops until you can prove they made a mistake...

    SO... I've grown to the point where I figure it is up to THEM in the reverse scenario... so like many years ago when I got an improperly programmed cable converter box... I figure it was up to them to figure it out and contact me. IF they figured it out, contacted me, and asked me... I'd say "yeah, I wondered about that" and happily let them exchange the box for the one I should have at my convenience.

    Just being fair... "Passive theft" is still theft, I'll grant you that... and I'll also grant you that I've felt guilty in that scenario myself... but then I remembered how tough it was to get the cable installed in the first place, or all the times it would go out and they would deny that I was having any reception problems for a week before they'd send someone out!

    So I figure... IF I'm doing everything by the book, and an accidental bonus comes my way... I'll keep it, but if they call me up and realize their own mistake I will help them correct it at my convenience. I won't go out of my way any more than they would in the opposite situation.
     
  3. C*Tedesco

    C*Tedesco Legend

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    Wow, lot's of talk on the whole moral code. I guess I'm a thief in some eyes. I can live with that. I do see a difference to what I did and climbing up a pole, but can't please anyone. I don't have it now so...

    So BFG you brought up a point, what package do I have? I thought it was the 120 but maybe it's lower. All I know is that whatever package has FX,G4, and the Sirius channels was the one I just lost. I guess I got the lowest package? I'm ok with that....for now.
     
  4. jerry downing

    jerry downing Godfather

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    If you call the cable company after the fact, you may get someone fired. I taked to someone that I knew who worked at AT&T when that happened to us. He said that when they send people out to disconnect service, they goof off instead. He said that nobody complains if their service is not disconnected. Only when Comcast took over the cable did our service go away. AT&T never disconnected it. They just stopped sending us bills. By the way, we never used it, but we knew it was there when we hooked up a TV to check a cable that we use for the internet.
     
  5. hdtv4me

    hdtv4me Cool Member

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    I gave my friend my 721 and just installed it over a week ago. He subscribes to AT60 but has all of my old channels (Everything pak) for the last week. He called E* and the CSR told him that he is not paying for AT60 and to go ahead and enjoy it while it last! I think once he gets a yellow card the party will be over. At least he tried to make it right with E* but their incompetent CSR was too lazy to escalate or figure out why he has the everything pak.
     
  6. Big Bob

    Big Bob Godfather

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    I am no lawyer, but I think this falls under the same rule as receiving unordered merchandise in the mail

    Unordered Merchandise

    It is legal to keep it and not tell the shipper. Moral? That is up to you. Legal? Yes.
     
  7. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    When I had a cable modem I didn't want the video channels (I have E*) and ended up paying slightly more for the cable modem because of that choice. I was about ready to pick up the 'lifeline' video channels to get locals and a couple other channels when the 'introductory offer' wore off and I moved to DSL.

    When the tech installed the cable modem he didn't filter the feed - so I could have received ALL of their unblocked analog video channels. Eventually a lazy installer came back and installed a filter on my back porch (too lazy to climb the pole). That filter still didn't kill the lifeline channels and several others. And since the filter is on my porch it is easy to reach.

    Of course when I cancelled the cable modem they never sent out a tech to disconnect the wire at the pole - so I still have a full analog cable feed to where my cable modem was in the basement. Their lazyness - some of it 'cost savings' some of it employees ripping off the company by not doing their job.

    Imagine going to Wal-Mart to buy a $14.95 DVD and giving the clerk a $20. In your change they hand you a $10 bill along with the correct change. Do you take the change as presented as a 'stupid tax' on Wal-Mart for hiring people who can't make change?

    Once one begins rationalizing taking things that are not theirs one can rationalize further thefts of convenience. It is one's own decision just how moral one wants to be. I still have free cable in my basement ... it ends in a curled up wire tucked in the basement rafters. And that's as far as my pain threshold goes for 'cable theft'. (Although I've thought about climbing the pole to CUT the feed a couple of times - because I don't want 'free cable' even to no TV.)

    JL
     
  8. Steve Mehs

    Steve Mehs Hall Of Fame

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    This is kind of funny since the other day I disconnected my cable line from my modem and hocked it up to my TV to see if I could get anything, other then fuzzy locals (from the physical cable acting as an antenna) I could get nothing.

    Currently I have 4 Dish receivers in my closet, 2 2700s and 2 508s, all disconnected from the satellite stream before they were deactivated. If I wanted to I could probably get free Dish Network service (AT180, Supers, Locals) for a very long time between the 4 boxes, provided I disconnected the boxes when they aren’t in use. Both Dishes are still up on the roof, and I did do this a few times to check out the Sirius stations before I subscribed. Morality aside, it speaks volumes on my feelings towards Dish, that I don’t even want their service even tough I could have it for free.
     
  9. ntexasdude

    ntexasdude Hall Of Fame

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    One more thing to consider - most companies have avenues set up to report theft of services. Your neighbor or someone who doesn't like you could file a report.

    A few years ago I stopped in a convenience store. I paid with a $20 and the clerk gave me back about $5 too much. I noticed his mistake while walking out of the store and I knew that a lot of these clerks are responsible for shortages at the end of their shift. So I went back and made it right and he was grateful. As I was walking out to my truck I saw a folded up 20 dollar bill laying in the parking lot with no one in sight and of course I picked it up. Hmmm.......
     
  10. BobMurdoch

    BobMurdoch Hall Of Fame

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    Ya know, that $200 "Bank Error in Your Favor" Community Chest card from Monopoly looks like it would produce quite the debate on this forum.... :lol:

    Anyone ever playing the game give it back?
     
  11. cdru

    cdru Hall Of Fame

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    All the time. Usually it's in the form of the luxury or property tax though. :) I've always assumed that the "Bank error in your favor" was more of a reverse service charge. If I were to bounce a check, I get charged $20 bucks because of my error I figure they just had a $200 fee that I charge them when they make a mistake. Yeah. That's it.
     
  12. KingLoop

    KingLoop Custom User Title DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I agree, I just give my opinion... some people agree sometimes and some people disagree sometimes. Morality will always be debated by those with it, trying to impress it on those without it and by those without it trying to convince everyone that they actually have it.
     
  13. garypen

    garypen Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Taking something is quite different than being given something. The latter not being theft, of convenience or otherwise.
     
  14. BFG

    BFG Hall Of Fame

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    Quick Off-topic question -

    Who's that in your avatar and where can I get the full picture? :)
     
  15. garypen

    garypen Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    I always assumed it was him.
     
  16. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Funny story... I've had this happen a couple of times at grocery stores, where the cashier gives me back too much change for what I paid.

    In that instance, since it is readily and conveniently correctable... I always pipe up and say "hey, I think you gave me back too much change"... and they always look at me funny and swear that they didn't. Apparently the embarassment at being wrong is worse for them than having a register that is short at the end of the day.

    I've actually argued with cashiers who gave me too much money back, and given up because I can't convince them they gave me too much change!
     
  17. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There's another thread somewhere in the forum where a guy was talking about his DirecTV bill being charged for months of service well after he had cancelled... and DirecTV was taking the stance that it was his fault for not notifying them sooner... they were knowingly billing him for an account he didn't have, and billing another customer who had service at the same address (apparently it was an old house or something he had moved from).

    Anyway, the point that kept coming up was... why wasn't this guy looking at his charge card statements and complaining from the very first month he was overcharged?

    I think this is relevant to the discussion... because here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say I won't go out of my way to report their mistake in my favor.

    Clearly when the shoe is on the other foot, the customer must yell loudly and often and early when a problem comes up... and that will even be used against them later if they don't... so my figuring is that the reverse is also true when the mistake is in my favor, it is up to the company to figure it out and contact me.

    I won't lie about it if the notice a mistake in my favor... but I certainly won't go any more out of my way than they would.

    That doesn't mean I don't feel guilty about it... just that I don't think the ball is in my court to report it if they wouldn't do the same.

    I went through this type of thing with a cellphone carrier not too long ago... where they were charging me a "One time $18 fee" every month! I called and said, "hey, how come the one-time fee is every month?" and they would say it was a billing error... and they'd credit it, but then re-charge it back the next month and then send me a late-notice letter for not paying my full bill and threaten to cancel my service and add late-charges!

    After about 3 months, they finally gave me credit and stopped the charges... but then the next month they credited me again! I was in a good mood, so I called them back and pointed it out, but they said they didn't make a mistake. I wasn't going to argue beyond that, so I dropped it.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    In order to be given something one has to take it.

    JL
     
  19. garypen

    garypen Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Yes. But, it is only wrong if one takes it without it first being given. That is the major deciding factor in this debate.
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There is a major factor of whether it IS being given at all or just not being protected correctly.

    It was a glitch not a gift.

    JL
     
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