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D needs a snow leopard approach....

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by saleen351, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    No one is forcing anyone to upgrade their Mac OS system software. There is no gun held to your head. You seem to be sadly and grossly misinformed about almost everything. Either that or you have some pathological compelling need to validate arguments against something you chose not to invest in. Probably a little of both.

    While every up rev from anyone obsoletes software versions requiring they be updated, this upgrade does not make any hardware obsolete. What current (non-Snow) Leopard runs on is any Intel-based Mac, and that is also what Snow Leopard runs on. Leopard itself will not run on PowerPC Macs, but they have not been sold for years. And they are also not obsolete. My PowerBook is nearing 7 years old and still running strong on Panther. The improvements in Leopard, or even Snow Leopard over Panther are just not that compelling anyway. If there were a lot to fix in Panther, maybe so, but there never was, as it was pretty sound already.

    Comparing the SL release to Vista is ludicrous. As with every other Mac release, Leopard broke very little, while true to form at Microsoft, Vista broke nearly everything. Mac's OS releases have been astounding technical successes while Microsoft's have struggled to the point where vendors themselves rejected Vista, mutinied, and moved back to XP, the only relatively-stable consumer OS Microsoft has ever had.

    Mac's popularity is not based on a desire for something different, unless you mean different than Windows, typically because it is so much more reliable than Windows. It is also not a function of advertising, although if one were to make a decision on what to buy strictly on advertising, Apple's commercials would be a compelling reason to buy Mac while Microsoft's commercials would also a compelling reason not to buy Windows.

    Mac's popularity is based on how terrific and reliable the Mac OS actually is. There is nothing really comparable to it on any level. One of the remarkable things about Snow Leopard is that it actually gives back 7-20 GB of HDD space, which should tell you something about the design ethic at Apple. I think that I can safely predict that Windows 7 will give nothing back in that regard, and just be another continuation of software bloat. But who knows, a broken clock is right twice a day, so they might even get it right for once.
     
  2. am7crew

    am7crew Legend

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    Push the guide button and I guarantee you 1. its not instant and 2. the amount time it does take to come up dish's DVR do it in half that. I like Directv's boxes as much as the next guy for some of you to say theres nothing to complain about and turn around and admit youve never used another companies DVR shows the ignorance in this particular debate. If you havent seen or used others why are you chiming in with your one sided opinion?
     
  3. my1423

    my1423 Godfather

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    My hr works and at times want to take it out in a field and beat it office space style! Just plain aggravating at times.

    I have had many dvrs. The hr series are slugs in comparison for basic usage to nearly all the other dvrs i have owned or used. I am comparing them on standard def programs not hd for they are really bad on hd. My old UltimateTv made in 2001 is faster. Now thats really sad that a decade old unsupported box kicks its butt. Menus are far easier to navigate too. Cant believe how un egronomic some things are on all the dtv brand units.

    Would be nice if they add a small hidden sub menu where you can go in and turn off the crud you dont use to speed it up. Better would be to just make it faster period but thats not going to happen until they add all the new features they want and perfect them. After that they will work on speed. Speed costs money. Redesigning with speed costs a whole lot more. The issues we see are all cost ratio based.

    The main focus of current development and the direction they want is a good one with the future mentioned upcoming releases that are still WAY OUT for release.

    If you want to compare standard def non dvr boxes the fastest i have ever used were the last generation of Hughes. Instant channel changes and instant guide.
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Do you understand the concept of "instantaneous response"? I push the Guide button and the Guide comes right up. Don't know how it could be faster.
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I've only used D* DVRs, Ultimate TV, TiVo and the HRs. Where did you get the idea that I've used other companies DVRs? I did say that I had Cablevision, but I never had a Cablevision DVR. As far as Dish goes, they don't have the Yes Network and without the Yankees, the Dish DVR could have a 60" LCD screen on top of it and get 50 miles to the gallon and I wouldn't touch it.
     
  6. MizzouTiger

    MizzouTiger Icon

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    I'm definitely not saying the current Directv boxes are lightning fast, but they are definitely faster than the DirecTivo box that I had before. Trying to get through the guide with that box was like watching paint dry....only more painful.
     
  7. Nicholsen

    Nicholsen Godfather

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    I hear the HD TiVO was really slow when it was first released. By the time I got mine, they had fixed the speed problem, and I never saw the "paint drying" effect first hand. However, I don't doubt they were slow when first released.

    It still does take some time to update/change the season passes, which (fortunately) is not something you do very often. The flip side is the to do list is always current and correct. On the HR, it takes a while to update in the background. I like the way the TiVo does that, although I wish it were faster.

    I am making my assessment on the two receivers based upon using both regularly. The HR is slower. The more annoying problem with the HR is "key bounce" and erratic response to the remote. The TiVO is far superior in that respect.

    I think the HR series would work a lot better if it simply had more processor power and memory. Given how cheap that is, I would hope the next generation of boxes are more powerful than the current line-up
     
  8. Mike Greer

    Mike Greer Hall Of Fame

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    I don't see the logic in people that think they have fast HRs but I do wish I was one of them. It would be so much easier to use DirecTV's DVRs if I really believed they were fast!

    I think most of this is pointless - those very few that think they have 'fast' HRs will NEVER think otherwise and I'm fine with that. The only purpose for these discussions to continue is for people considering making a change to DirecTV. I wish I could have read this stuff before I went all-in with DirecTV. If I had I would have spent a little more time to see if I would be able to handle the incredible slow down from using my Dish Network DVR to the HR. Chances are I would have just stayed with Dish but added one HR with the minum package to be able to get Sunday Ticket. I and the rest of the family would have been much happier that way. In fact when football season is over I'll likely just suspend my DirecTV account and go back to Dish Network. Next season I'll just continue my account with the very minimum.

    Who knows - maybe the new DirecTivo will be fast, functional and available by next season and all will be well. Just not holding my breath!
     
  9. Max Mike

    Max Mike AllStar

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    Running in place with 4-8% market share with a lot of look at me I am so special on the side.

    I do agree DirecTV needs to do something with the HR-2X series to make it smoother/faster and more reliable. I don’t know if that is even possible with the series, I strongly suspect it is just to underpowered for all DirecTV wants it to do.
     
  10. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    They should just start upgrading some chipsets in the repair cycle.
     
  11. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    How in the world is that a matter of logic? They are not trying to reason out a solution, just reacting to what they are experiencing. It is strictly a matter of perception. They either perceive something as fast enough or not fast enough. But when it gets to the point where the user wonders if the unit received a command and pushes the button a second time while waiting, then it has become a huge problem.

    Folks also think channel change is slow, and it is, compared to an analog cable converter. On one of those you can change channels 15 times in the time it takes to change from one MPEG-4 channel to another on DTV. But that is not DTV's fault, it is the nature of digital delivery.

    For sake of comparison, while the Tivo HR10 is pretty snappy until you bloat it up with SP's, thumb ratings, WL's and large secondary HDDs with tons of recordings (something the creators never dreamed of in 1998), and the 6.x up rev at least accomplished a speed increase among its many broken promises, nothing compares to the speed of the old SD DVRs from DISH. You could get around on those like nobody's buisiness. Navigating on them was like driving a Ferarri. Unfortunately, in every other way they were the equivalent of hammered dog-$#!+. So be careful what you wish for.

    As one who has a HR20-100 and a HR20-700, I am constantly amazed that anyone thinks their HR2x is slow, but it appears that those complaining have the other "new and improved" models that came out later. It's not that I don't feel their pain; I agree that fixing this issue should be at the top of DTV's list, for the sake of those customers and the sake of the reputation of their DVRs. And it boggles the mind that what seems to work on the older HR20 doesn't seem to work as well on the newer models. It's enough to make one wonder what "improved" means to them. Possibly, it means pared-down and cheaper. And maybe their attitude when learning that cheaper models would have performance issues is simply "oh well...collateral damage".
     
  12. Mike Greer

    Mike Greer Hall Of Fame

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    I can see that the HR20s are faster - in fact I continue to look for one.... It is also slow if you are used to using a Dish Network HD DVR.

    I hope they do fix the HR21/22/23 but I doubt it is possible. They care more about production costs than really have them work.

    The Dish DVRs have their problems too... But I used a 622 for a couple of years and it was a dream compared to the regular pain in the rear that my HR22s are.

    I am happy for those that are pleased as punch with their HR speed but by the far most are not. I suspect the minority that are happy with the HR21/22/23 speed have not used Dish Network 622/722 DVRs. But saying the problem is something other than the HR boxes 'beacuse mine is fast' doesn't do anyone any good.

    Here's to a new box - Tivo or other - that puts all this in the past!
     
  13. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Get a HR20-700 off ebay.
     
  14. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Thank you.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.

    Can't tell you how much I appreciate your logical arguments. But, I just watched a football game on one of my 21-700s with an Antec on it and it was just about as fast as my 20-700s and had about the same remote response as the 20-700s. All this lack of speed stuff baffles me.

    Thanx again,

    Rich
     
  15. Mike Greer

    Mike Greer Hall Of Fame

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    Yep - I have been watching a few - seems there are a lot of scams on these things!
     
  16. Mike Greer

    Mike Greer Hall Of Fame

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    TomCat - When you said "They are not trying to reason out a solution, just reacting to what they are experiencing." I think for many of the minority group of people that claim to have fast HRs you are correct but in the case of a certain few it seems to me that they are missing the 'logic' and are attempting to reason out a solution. :(

    80% of HR22 users in the poll say they have slow HR22s. In my twisted mind I see that as a big statement and can't see any other logical cause than the HR22s are just slow. Rich blames 'Something in their setup' as the cause of the slowdowns. :nono2: That is not "..just reacting to what they are experiencing". That, to me, is Rich coming to an incorrect conclusion on the cause of the slow downs and then beating that incorrect conclusion over the heads of anyone that does not agree. How could 80% of HR22 users have some mysterious issue in their setups that causes things like the remote response troubles, inconsistent scrolling through the guide, problems with trick plays etc?

    The thing is that I'm not out-got-get anyone. If Rich is happy with his 72 HRs (or however many he has) I'm happy he is happy. I really do appreciate that at least at first he wanted to help me and I am paying him back now by entertaining him with my posts! :D What I really hope for is that the minority of people here that claim there are no speed problems with the HRs to stop telling everyone 'There must be something in your setup'. It does the current and future HR users no good to pretend these things don't have issues. What could I and 80% of the HR22 users possibly do to speed up their HRs? Keep the drive 75% empty? Only use 20 SLs? Sure but shouldn't you be able to use these as advertised?

    Lets just hope that DirecTV does something about it so these posts can just go away and we can spend more time watching TV!
     
  17. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Mike, while I agree with a lot of what you wrote, I bet we would all be surprised at how many folks out there do have some sort of localized issue involving their setups. Iffy cabling/connector/MS issues, intermittent LOS issues(probably not as common as that is an easy to diagnose issue), drive issues that havent fully surfaced yet, based on the age of the some of the installed HR22's now. I see this type of trend on electronics all the time, especially PC's, since thats what these basically are. Devices seem to work well for a few months, albeit I think we all pretty much agree none seem as fast as the HR20's, but then start to have some "issues". I see the exact same trends with our companies fleet of PC's/laptops, work great for 6 months, then calls start increasing, the biggest difference between a corporate PC environment and here is the DVR's are a much more closed loop software environment...we may be approaching the time when the HD's in the DVR's are starting to get to that "point" of higher failures. We saw the exact same trends a year or so ago with the HR20 series as the HD's started to fail in those....think of the failures as a standard bell curve over time....this could be one of the things we now see happening with the HR22.
     
  18. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Yeah, you've got to be smart. I'm not sure exactly what steps to take, but some members here know what to do & have had success.
     
  19. dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

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    Different persepectives, I guess. If that happened to me, I would think it indicated a systemic problem with the 22-100 model, especially if I had other models of receivers that worked fine.

    Disclaimer: I like my HR20.
     
  20. Mike Greer

    Mike Greer Hall Of Fame

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    I'm sure there are some people that do have problems with their installations - I'm not sure how that would equate to slowing the down the receivers but no doubt there are problems.

    My issues have been around since the beginning and all the HR2x receivers I have seen are slow... The HR20s are faster but still slower than I'd like....

    Big problem is how could most of the HR21/22/23 users have bad installs and most of the HR20 users and Dish Network users have 'good' installs? The only thing that makes sense is that at least the HR21/22/23 boxes are 'slow' according to most users.

    A very few vocal people here seem to want to defend the HR series to the death regardless of what the facts are. It is way beyond my ability to comprehend how someone can be so sure that all the 'slow' HR boxes are only slow because either the specific box is broken or there is a mysterious problem with the install. No specifics on what possible installation issue could cause the boxes to work but slowly - just hell-bent on the problem is not with the receivers.

    Again - there is no possible way to convince people that are unwilling to see. No big deal - it is just the way it goes. The reasons I keep being so vocal is so that new people to the forum looking for answers won't spend hours and dollars on trying to fix their installs only to figure out the HR receivers are never going to be as fast as Dish Network receivers. Oh - and it is entertainment for Rich!
     

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