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Dazed Confused About SWMs +...

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by darita, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Sep 9, 2008 #1 of 91
    darita

    darita AllStar

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    :confused: Please help me out. I've been away for 6 months and now am about to get reinstalled in my new house. Since the house already has single cable home runs to every room, I'd like to use SWMs so no additional cables have to be pulled to the rooms. I already have 3 HR20-700s and will add one more, along with 2 standard def receivers.
    I'd like to know exactly what I need SWM-wise to make this all happed? Secondly, what standard receivers do I need to ask for from DTV? Thirdly, exactly what do I need to ask for from DTV, dish-wise etc. to make this all happen? Lastly, the whole hookup of SWMs has me pretty confused, so a detailed explanation of what I'd need along with how to make the connections, would be terribly helpful...and remember, I'm a real dummy about this stuff.
     
  2. Sep 9, 2008 #2 of 91
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    1) SWMLine dish is a slimline with a SWM8, but "the 8" means eight tuners, so 4 HDDVRs and "it's full".
    2) SWM8 is a separate multi-switch, but you would need to buy this. What it would give you is the 8 SWM tuners, AND three legacy ports for your SD receivers. These don't need to be SWM, as there running off non SWM ports.
    SWM8 uses the Slimline dish.

    Dish--4 coax --SWM8--single wire for each SD receiver/ HD SWM has two ports that a single coax connects to and is split as needed to feed the receivers/recorders.
     
  3. Sep 9, 2008 #3 of 91
    Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

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    You have several options ...

    If you want 16 possible SWM tuners and several legacy ports, my setup is just one example ... need two SWM-8's and several 2-way splitters ... details in signature .... there are other possibilities as well ...
     
  4. Sep 9, 2008 #4 of 91
    flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    The easiest thing is to get a SWMline dish and then you can run 8 tuners total between your 5 receivers. Many of your receivers will have to operate not in dual-tuner mode (note that only DVRs support dual-tuner mode anyway).

    The complex case, mentioned above by Sixto is to get a regular slimline (AU9) dish, 4 splitters (ow!) and two SWM-8s. Then if you are careful about how you route the wires from each SWM-8 so that neither has more than 4 receivers on it, you can use dual-tuner mode on all your receivers that apply.

    Note that for each SWM-8 or SWMline dish, you also have to connect a power inserter to it (no less than 15 cable feet away and no more than about 100).

    I'd run cat5e/cat6 to each receiver location if possible so you can use networking between then and potentially get multi-room viewing (watch recordings off a PVR in other rooms). If you have networking, you don't need phone lines either.

    I personally would go with the SWMline, and do without dual tuner on some receivers (the two SD receivers may be non-PVR and thus single tuner anyway).
     
  5. Supervolcano

    Supervolcano Hall Of Fame

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    The SWM8 has significantly gone down in price since initial release.
    It's now $150 (shipping included) from SolidSignal.com
    http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SWM-8

    Of course you'd still need 4 splitters to goto the 4 DVR's.

    ...This all of course if directv won't just give you a SWM8 for free via mover's connection. Tell them your situation of house wired for cable tv in every room. Maybe they'll give it to you since you have 6 receivers total.
     
  6. Supervolcano

    Supervolcano Hall Of Fame

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    No offense, but what good is a DVR if you don't have both tuners working.
    :D
    Darita fits the build for a SWM8 perfectly.
    8 SWM tuners and 2 legacy tuners.

    And someone who has 6 receivers that's moving into a new house shouldn't really be worried too much about spending $200 total on the SWM and splitters.
    ;)
     
  7. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Why wouldn't "one" 4-way splitter work?
    Or "two" 2-way splitters?
     
  8. ironwood

    ironwood Icon

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    On SWM8 3 legacy ports can I install (piggyback) another switch like 3x4 to get more legacy receivers connected?
     
  9. Greyshadow2007

    Greyshadow2007 Legend

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    Aug 23, 2006
    In testing, I was at least able to get 101 to function using a cascaded 6x8 I ran off of two of the legacy ports (the receivers connected to it were temporarily set to round dish type for the test) and experienced no signal issues. I don't think it would be much different with a 3x4 switch.
     
  10. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    It's more crap. More space. More power. More stuff to malfunction. And I speak of this having just had to replace my SWM because it was malfunctioning. Coming back home from work to find my recordings had been failing for hours multiple times was not fun.

    I personally wouldn't use the legacy ports because I don't want to later find out I want to put an HD receiver there, since HD receivers don't fully work on SWM legacy ports.

    Also, you talk about buying "the SWM and splitters". If he uses only one SWM, he doesn't need any splitters.

    Well, basically no. In order for a multiswitch to work correctly, it must receive every output from the dish, either directly (through splitters or not) or through a cascading switch. Since a modern dish has 4 outputs, and you are planning on connecting only 3 wires to this multiswitch, that means it cannot possibly be receiving every output from the dish, either directly or cascaded. Greyshadow quotes an exception, if you only want what a phase 1 (round) dish could get you (101 satellite), you can just hook up two lines from the legacy ports to the two 101 inputs to a multiswitch. But then you only get 101 sat channels. Lots of stuff will be missing, including locals in some markets.
     
  11. Supervolcano

    Supervolcano Hall Of Fame

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    Sorry to hear your troubles. I was in the first beta test group for the SWM8 over a year ago and it still works quite nicely.

    How would the SWMline dish help in this case?
    It's still needs external power inserter (I think).
    And it would still be subject to malfunctions like the SWM8.

    With the SWMline dish, your forever max'ed out with 8 tuners.

    With the SWM8 and slimline dish, you can add a second multiswitch if you need more than 8 tuners.

    You'd rather not use the 2 legacy ports today for fear of upgrading those receivers maybe several months or even longer from now? I, and probably most people would be the opposite on this one. Use it for it's full capability today, and if you outgrow it down the road, swap around some wires back by the multiswitch when that day comes.

    And if he got a SWMline dish, can it even operate the 2 legacy receivers? I thought that to use the SWMline dish, ALL the receivers had to be SWM Capable?

    Doesn't need splitters?
    How would he hook the SWM port to 4 different receivers?
    Need AT LEAST 1 four-way or 2 two-way splitters (thank you VOS for correcting me).
    ;)
     
  12. Supervolcano

    Supervolcano Hall Of Fame

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    Oh, Darita.

    Another thing no one really spelled out yet here is any splitters you use to feed the single wire to the 4 HD-DVR's must be HIGH FREQUENCY splitters (rated 5MHz to 2150 MHz). The old cable company splitters running through the house might not be high frequency. You'll have to track down where all the splitters are in the house and inspect them to see what they are rated for.

    And if you want OTA signals going to the receivers, the SWM8 has an OTA input port. Use a diplexer to extract the OTA signals back near each receiver. Only downfall here is the legacy ports won't have OTA mixed in automatically by the SWM8, but that can be done manually if you desire.
     
  13. br408408

    br408408 Legend

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    Jun 1, 2008
    If his locals are on the 101, and the legacy receivers are not HD, he is not missing much if anything by not getting the 110 and the 119. And if they are HD receivers, in 6 months or less there won't be anything on the 110 or 119 for him anyway.

    Yes, the Swimline uses a PI also.
     
  14. thestaton

    thestaton Legend

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    Aug 14, 2008
    Thanks for this tip, this is precisely what I plan on doing... However I'm a little confused.

    I run the line from the OTA to the SW8 OTA port.

    Just doing this alone will not get the channels out to the boxes?

    So I need to buy a couple of diplexers? This is where I'm confused.

    Do you put these by the receiver or do they stay outside? Do you need more than one?

    If they go by the receiver I would assume you need the AM-21?

    Thanks for the help,
     
  15. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "Correct":
    You need an OTA tuner, be it the one in the H20, HR20, or the add-on AM21.
    "At each location" you will need to "extract" [diplex] the OTA signal and feed it to the OTA input.
     
  16. jfuchtm

    jfuchtm AllStar

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    You can find some very good info here but do some searching before you buy, I found it yeserday on the web for $129.00 with free shipping. I also heard that wholesale price is supposed to drop in half so look before you leap.
     
  17. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    The internal diplexing in the SWM8 has been less than superb for some users. I would recommend using an external diplexer there, rather than the SWM8 itself. There are some sticky threads that have great information on "good" versus "bad" diplexers and splitters. Search out that information, it's well worth the effort.

    Carl
     
  18. flipptyfloppity

    flipptyfloppity New Member

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    You are misstating my position. I said if it were me, I'd go with a SWMline dish instead of a regular dish (which contains a multiswitch), a bank of 4 splitters and two SWM8s (with two power inserters).

    There is a significant difference in amount of stuff to break in a system with just one SWMline pickup and a power inserter versus all the stuff listed above.

    Yes. But forever isn't forever. It'd cost you an additional $90 (tops) to get an AU9 and out of your jam. It's a calculated risk at that point, right? If you see a 100% chance that you'll need to upgrade to even more tuners later, then putting it off doesn't make sense. But if you think it's likely you'll never need to go further (perhaps 6 receivers in your house constitutes nearly every room that doesn't have a toilet in it), taking the risk you won't need more tuners soon versus the penalty of $90 to start over isn't a huge deal.

    You don't need a multiswitch to add more SWMs. Just splitters and another SWM.

    Oh, maybe you were referring to a SWM as a multiswitch, if so, that's rather confusing, a multiswitch usually means a Zinwell or such.

    Depends on how you wire your house. I was assuming that he didn't have home runs for each leg, so it would be some effort to reconfigure later. Now typing it, it looks like a pretty big assumption.

    What legacy receivers? You made them up. He said he has three HR20-700s, will add another (which likely won't be an HR20 at all, but will be an HD DVR), and then he'll add two more receivers. It would be difficult for any of the three new receivers to not be SWM compatible, as that's all D* sells now.

    Yeah, I was talking about splitters above the SWM8s. You get to eliminate those, if you have two SWM8s, you need 4 2-way splitters above them.

    You're absolutely correct you'll need splitters below the SWMs, as a SWM8 only has two outputs and you need 4 (well, if you have two SWM8s you could go 3 and 5 instead of 4 and 4 but we'll ignore that). However, you'll fine that 2 two-way splitters won't do the job. A 4 way splitter creates 3 additional ends, giving you 4 ends. Each two-way splitter only creates 1 new end, giving you 3 ends. If you want to attach 4 devices to one line using two-way splitters, you'll need at least 3 of them.

    Now people are talking about diplexing below. I have my system diplexed. My sigline says otherwise right now, but that's because I had changed it up hoping diplexing was the problem and I didn't have to replace my SWM8. If you diplex, I'd recommend the good ones (IRD4001 and IRD4002) from Channel Master, I had problems with cheaper diplexers. You can get them at solidsignal. Note that using the OTA input on an SWM8 can be inconvenient, if you put the SWM8 near the dish, especially if you have an antenna amplifier, as the power inserter for that must go in above the diplexer (i.e. SWM8). In think the insertion loss complaints about the OTA input on the SWM8 are probably exaggerated, it will of course have 3dB more loss than a regular diplexer inserter given that it also has a two-way splitter in it. You cannot avoid a six-fold (average across all ends) insertion loss when splitting your OTA signal to 6 receivers, no matter how you do the diplexing.
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Since a SWM8 has two SWM outputs: TWO, 2-way splitters will give the required four outputs to feed four DVRs.
    Diplexing isn't the same as "multiplexing". It's simply combining and separating bands [frequencies].
     
  20. Sixto

    Sixto Well-Known Member

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    Non-SWM Dish, two SWM-8's, four PV23-402 2-way splitters, four PV23-302 2-way splitters ... 16 tuners, 8 boxes ... set for life (hopefully).

    Though I only had requirement presently for 9 tuners, figured would install it all once and be done.

    As others have mentioned, other many options.
     

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