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DECA vers CAT5/6

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by David Carmichael, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. PennyPincherP

    PennyPincherP Cool Member

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    You can get these now for $30. But then I'm biased since I have a 5 port (or 2) in pratically every room.:rolleyes:
     
  2. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    While this approach may be cheaper to step into, it takes away from the unique pathways advantage that a single switch offers over your subdivided model or the MoCA fully shared half duplex model.

    When measuring economies of scale, you also need to consider that each switch you add consumes one of its own ports to uplink. Each 5 port switch you add only adds capacity for four devices and forces those four devices to share the uplink port when accessing the rest of the LAN.
     
  3. PennyPincherP

    PennyPincherP Cool Member

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    True but I only have at most 2 ports in each room wired to the media closet. The builder charged $100-120 per port.:grin:
     
  4. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    There is SOOO much wrong with your statements and assessment.

    #1: There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between an enterprise switch and a home router/switch - even if its labeled Gig-E. We can talk memory, processor, algorithm, physical data path, SoC, and backplane. Which one do you think wins in each of those comparisons? Using enterprise class specs and switch performance, and equating that to your $40 all in one Home device or your $100 Gig-E switch is laughable.

    #2: This isn't taking into account the traffic needs for streaming video - which is NOT bandwidth bandwidth bandwidth. Its controlled data flow with prioritization of control packets. A different ballgame.

    #3: We won't even begin to discuss the fact that making an assumption that Joe Six Pack has a modern Wireless-N router connected to a $100 Gig-E switch (which still doesn't match what an Enterprise class switch is architecturally) is entirely misinformed.

    Its not religious... its fact based. And I think some people who have never touched/used DECA need to reconsider spewing incorrect facts.

    Does Ethernet work? Absolutely. Is DECA architecturally a better solution for DirecTV MRV? Yes. Is there technical advantages to using DECA over Ethernet? Yes, including ease of installation, automatic QoS and prioritization, and traffic isolation - which any network architect will tell you are ALL good things. Are there bad things with DECA... Yep... the bias of people who think switch Ethernet is the ONLY valid data layer architecture out there simply because its a defacto standard.
     
  5. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    FWIW - We had Gb Ethernet and used MRV for months with it. While troubleshooting the audio drop issue we were upgraded to new dish, SWiM/DECA. After using DECA for over a month, we switched it all back to Ethernet (still SWiM).

    For us, after 4 or 5 streams got going on DECA we would get picture issues. We also had two units that would drop off the list what seemed like every other day.

    Since going back to Ethernet the issues are gone. The two problem units have been going over a month now without any disconnects and I don't see any picture issues when everyone is home using the system.
     
  6. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Let's keep this in perspective .. You have way more than the average number of DVRs. Most folks will never reach 4 or 5 streams at the exact same time.
     
  7. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    Granted - however if you have a unit that keeps dropping off the list (even if you only have 2, try Ethernet - that could solve the issue as it did for our problem units.

    As far as our 8DVR setup, it is what it is, we had multiple issues on DECA and none of the same issues on Ethernet. We were told by all but a few on here that DECA was superior to Ethernet and DirectTV themselves said DECA should have no problem with our setup. Obviously most of the yes men here and the csr's at DirectTV are seriously biased or simply don't understand DECA's limitations.

    After THOROUGHLY testing each system OUR Gb Ethernet network is FAR superior to DECA - YMMV. Sure we lose out on support, (I think? - because we are a DECA install in their system) but take away the problems that DECA introduced, and we have no need for support.
     
  8. Tom_S

    Tom_S Icon

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    Jeez.. doesn't anybody in your house watch what's on their own DVR? What's with all the streaming?
     
  9. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    But you never really troubleshot the issues you had either... to be fair.

    Multiple cases have been resolved with respect to receivers dropping off/freezing playlists.

    Does DECA have limitations? Yes. No one here has said that it doesn't. But, you also didn't really try to fix your issues. You said Ethernet was better. You put DECA on to try it, saw some issues, and pulled it out. Thats fine - its your choice. But please, enough with the "yes men" comments and such. DECA works wonderfully for most people, and it has advantages, just as it has disadvantages. Glad Ethernet worked for you - no one here thinks less of you for it. Now please stop bashing people who recommend DECA.
     
  10. Tom_S

    Tom_S Icon

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    I agree. I was on gigE and have switched to DECA. I see no difference in the performance of MRV. However, saving 2 ports on my switch is very nice, as well as not having to run another line to my new third receiver.

    Works great.. less ports..
     
  11. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    All we have is DVR's

    After a full audit of what is being recorded several months ago, we found a TON of duplicate SP's like Bones on 5 DVR's.

    So we have broken out several DVR's to handle just sports, just movies, just daytime etc. It has greatly increased storage because there are no longer any duplicates. The downside is you do a lot more streaming.
     
  12. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    DirecTV came back out twice to test the system and resolve the dropping out issues. Everything tested out fine and the two problem units ALWAYS connect after rebooting them - D* seemed to think that daily reboots was OK and normal.

    So we DID have it tested by D* themselves. That was over 6 weeks ago now. Should I keep calling back and getting the tech out here?
     
  13. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    No - and so far in 2 of the 3 cases I am aware of the problems actually came from outside the DECA environment (an area you are more familiar with than DirecTV).

    You obviously are comfortable with Ethernet - thats fine. But, you seem to imply over and over that because your Ethernet environment worked better, that makes Ethernet a better medium... all the while forgetting people like Rich and others who posted that in a similar load, similar setup to yours, DECA worked fine. So - yes, Ethernet is a viable solution... no one said otherwise. But, the facts hold that DECA is fine as well and running around bashing people who say so doesn't add anything.
     
  14. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Salem, OR
    It comes down to whether or not it makes any difference in a residential MRV installation. I would hope that you would agree that it makes little to no difference in that context.
    It isn't even a ballgame as there is no need to prioritize or control flow. Switched Ethernet offers the user essentially unobstructed access to and from other nodes on the network. Suggesting that there might be traffic conflicts is ludicrous within the confines of the residential DIRECTV one-to-one MRV model.
    I'm aghast that you bring up this comparison of enterprise class versus consumer grade in a discussion of residential LAN use. What is your point? Do you believe the demands of a residential scenario come anywhere near taxing the capabilities of a modern consumer level GigE switch?
    When you cite examples that are simply not present in residential MRV applications, it is most surely a religious issue because there's certainly no practical reason to shout "enterprise class" and get bound up in discussions of equipment best suited to traffic levels in the terabytes and node counts in the dozens.
     
  15. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    harsh... seriously. Everything you say is based on what you *think* would happen since you don't have DECA, you don't have DirecTV, and you don't have DirecTVs implementation of MRV.

    On the other hand, myself, wavemaster, VOS, and others have actually tested it. We may have disagreements, but we've tested it and have hands on experience with both environments giving validity to what we say.

    We've discussed this in enough threads that I don't need to repeat myself - but suffice it to say you have a very ignorant view of Streaming Video traffic needs, and what traffic flow on MOCA is as opposed to Ethernet.

    The original posters questions was specific... I think its been answered. I don't want to turn this into another pissing match, so I'm done. If you actually care about the topic you can PM me to discuss.
     
  16. mrfatboy

    mrfatboy Godfather

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    I'm using the ethernet setup with no problems. I'm on a 100mbit backbone. There is a 3-4 second delay when starting a program from another HR2x. It's no biggy. I don't know if the delay is caused by the HR23 in the system (it's so slow :( ) or just that it needs that time to start the streaming in general. I could justify buying a Gigabit switch if I knew that delay went away.

    Can anybody tell me that has a Deca or a Gigabit ethernet backbone see a delay when starting to play a program from another DVR? If so, how much? Why type of HDDVR's are in your system. I would guess that an all HR24 network system would be the fastest.
     
  17. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    I get about the same delay starting a remote program on Gig as I did on DECA I think 3-4 sec is probably normal.
     
  18. lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

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    From what I've gleaned from reading all the chatter on the matter, it would seem likely no different no matter which infrastructure. From an Ethernet perspective it cannot change with a gig switch as both the server and client are networked at 10/100. DECA users seem to note a similar delay.

    Even in those rare instances where I am forced to use the local host as my server and client, it seems to be delayed on start up. Trickplay is a bit more precise but I'm not having an instructional conversation on over 300ft of wire so I would expect it to be a bit more crisp.

    Don "no need to fix what isn't broken" Bolton

     
  19. mrfatboy

    mrfatboy Godfather

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    I figured :( It's probably not worth it to upgrade to a gigabit backbone now. The HR2x's are the only things that are active on my net. I've got $200 credit at Newegg that's burning a hole in my pocket. :)
     
  20. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    I don't remember "running" around anywhere, or "bashing" anyone. I have REPEATEDLY stated "In our case" "In our installation" "our results" meaning the household. I have never told anyone to switch. All I ever said is if in doubt "try" ethernet, or if you already have it, by all means use it.

    In our case Ethernet was ABSOLUTELY better than DECA. It is not an opinion, it is based on 6+ weeks of testing. In our installation Ethernet beats DECA in every measure - reliability, speed, throughput. Most important to me is reliability, on DECA we would be rebooting a unit what seemed like everyday, since we switched back to Ethernet there has not been a single reboot.
     

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