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direct tv 1080p format outrage (1080p24 vs. 1080p60)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by amz11, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    That is a question you have to take up with Sony, unfortunately. Sony is again not the only culprit, but it's very common for items destined for one market to be different from a supposedly-identical item destined for another, even if they carry the same consumer model number.
     
  2. Lee L

    Lee L Hall Of Fame

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    This situation does suck (I have TVs that cannot do teh DirecTV 1080p/24 signal) but, much of it is due to technological issues and not eveil companies trying to screw us all over. The reason many plasma and LCD tvs did not have 1080p24 inputs was because the panels did not support that refresh rate. Not until 120 hz LCD (evenly divisible by 24) and the newer batch of plasmas was it easy to do without artifacting. In fact, teh Panny plasmas from teh UK while they can accept 24p, the panel is no different, it is just in the firmware of the TV to make the conversion.

    The chips in the DirecTV boxes can only do 1080p/24 and until very recently, there was no other chip on the market that could do 60, so they did not choose 24 over 60 they did the only thing they could. In fact, I doubt they even gave much thought to the 1080p capabilities of the chips when they designed the thing, they recently added it because they found that they could make it work.

    Now, they probably should add some disclaimers on commercials as the majority of 1080p capable sets right now cannot support 24hz, but in a few more years it will not matter.
     
  3. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone DBSTalk Club

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    Since everything you mentioned was already said several times in the thread, I'm not sure it gave him further perspective.

    But excellent answers!!
     
  4. gitarzan

    gitarzan Godfather

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    My Mitsubish 1080P purchased in 2005 will not accept a 1080p signal form an external input. This was a big disappointment when I found out. I paid a lot more for a a1080P TV. My fault I geuss I didn't do my homework I can not even get 1080P on my 1080P TV.
     
  5. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    If you take a careful look at the ATSC standard A/81, you'll find that all frame rates are "standard" for DBS in 1920x1080p.

    frame_rate_code: 1 = 23.976 Hz, 2 = 24 Hz, 4 = 29.97 Hz, 5 = 30 Hz, 7 = 59.94 Hz, 8 =
    60 Hz
     
  6. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    Some early "1080p" TVs were like this, they upconverted 1080i to 1080p but would not accept a 1080p signal.
     
  7. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    But remember, the ATSC standards only dictate the formats that the ATSC tuner can understand. It doesn't mean that the display has to display them without conversion, and it doesn't mean that the TV has to accept those same formats via its line inputs.
     
  8. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Understand that these aren't OTA standards. A/81 is the DBS standards as drafted in 2003. It has nothing to do with ATSC tuners.
     
  9. rrrick8

    rrrick8 Hall Of Fame

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    I'll throw in my 2 cents worth since I have a Sony XBR-3 which won't play the 1080p24.
    What I do have though is a Sony PS3 that does and can convert it to 1080p60 so my XBR-3 would be able to view the DIRECTV 1080p content.

    However, DIRECTV, apparently won't give the proper codec or adjustment that can make this happen.
    My PS3 can see the folders in my HR20 recorded list, but they can't play them.

    I still don't understand why DIRECTV won't add what is need to allow this. It can't be that expensive.
     
  10. Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    It isn't DIRECTV, it is Sony. Sony hasn't paid for the DTCP-IP option to playback protected content via the network.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  11. waynebtx

    waynebtx Hall Of Fame

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    It isn't DIRECTV, it is Sony. Last time i checked they have no plans to update there PS3 to allow this.
     
  12. David Ortiz

    David Ortiz Save the Clock Tower!!

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    As a former owner of a KDS-R50XBR1, I can attest to it being an 'early "1080p" TV' that could not receive a 1080p signal except through it's i.link port. The TV definitely had the higher resolution (1920x1080) and was (p)rogressive by design, so it was a de facto 1080p set. Back then there weren't any 1080p sources readily available and all you were looking for was the deinterlacing from 1080i.
     
  13. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    As an XBR2 owner, one of the first things I did was to connect my HTPC to it through DVI to HDMI and saw 1080p. It looked much better than the 1080i, over component, with my earlier Sony RPTV.
     
  14. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

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    That's not necessarily true. In fact, if the TV correctly deinterlaces a 24fps movie that is encoded in a 1080i video signal, there will be absolutely no difference whatsoever from what would be obtained if the same source was distributed in a 1080p24 video signal.

    That's the dirty little secret of 1080p24. It's mostly just a marketing gimmick, as a 1080p24 signal does not contain any more information than a 1080i signal does for any given available bitrate.
     
  15. cartrivision

    cartrivision Hall Of Fame

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    1080p60 doesn't require any more bandwidth than 1080p24 if the source material is 24fps, in which case every other frame is just duplicated 2 or 3 times, which MPEG can do without redundantly re-encoding the duplicate frames. The 24 frames per second can each be only encoded and inserted into the bitstream once and then repeated multiple times on the decoding side.

    The problem is, the current chipset used in DirecTV HD equipment does not appear to be capable of creating and outputing a 1080p60 video signal so people whose TVs cannot accept and display a 1080p24 signal are out of luck.
     
  16. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Just to be more specific;

    Doesn't it actually have to properly de-interlace a 1080i cinema production. Detect and remove the 3-2 pull-down *field* sequence. Assemble 1080P progressive frames and then either re-add a 3-2 pull-down *frame* sequence for a 1080P/60 Hz display. Or add a 2:2, 3:3, 4:4, 5:5, etc. pull-down for a 1080P display by projecting each film frame at a 48, 72, 96, 120 Hz, etc. refresh rate?
     
  17. texasbrit

    texasbrit Well-Known Member

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    A point I have made many times. In fact, the same thing applies to 1080p60 if it's delivering film-sourced material. 1080i60, 1080p24 and 1080p60 all contain the same information when the source is movie material filmed at 24fps. A TV with a decent reverse pulldown system can re-create 1080p24 from the 1080i60 signal (or embed the 1080p24 information in a 1080p60 signal for display). But it is amazing what is the power of marketing when it comes to numbers. It's like the pixel race in digital cameras. Just increasing the number of pixels does not give you a better quality picture. You can't see the difference in resolution unless you enlarge the picture to very large sizes, but the other characteristics of the chipset (color rendition, noise levels etc) are worse with the higher pixel count.
     
  18. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    So in the area of DirecTV's DoD 1080P/24 Hz cinema content, may we say that it's all marketing hype, so if your TV set will not accept the native 1080P/24 Hz format it's of no matter if you can download a 1080i/60 Hz version of the movie since it will have equivalent PQ?
     
  19. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    Assuming your TV de-interlaces properly, yes, there should be very little difference.

    Where there IS a difference is if you have a (newer) TV that can display 24 fps content at 24 fps, by refreshing at an even multiple of 24 and displaying each frame at that multiple. Such TVs provide the absolute closest experience to being in the theater.

    Here's the list of all such TVs: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155

    NOTE: this is NOT a list of TVs that accept 1080/24p input signals; that would be a larger list. This is a list of TVs that accept 1080/24p input signals AND display the content at 24 fps.
     
  20. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    This is a helpful list with a lot of other good information on this issue, but it only appears to be for 40" screens and up. However 1080P/24 Hz with 5:5 pull-down-120 Hz has now entered into the 32" screen range such as the one I'm interested in the Samsung LN32B650, since I (as well as just about everyone else here) watch TV almost exclusively from my bedroom where I'm only a little over 5 feet away from the TV component stand and 32" is the largest one should have at this short a viewing distance.
     

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