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DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q3 2010 Thread)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Jun 24, 2010.

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  1. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who runs a significant project of the magnitude of the new Tivo unit (and the Fortune 500 company I work for does them routinely) knows that projects indeed get "adjusted" during the span of the "plan".

    That said, best practices and change control procedures manage delays. For that reason, having a project take 1-2 years longer than planned, when the original timeline was about 2 years to start with...demonstrates that it is laden with problems in project management.

    The evidence is clear. Tivo was commissioned to delver its next generation firmware to DirecTV based on specifications they were provided by a project target date. Even if those were amended during the project, if proper process was followed, the project simply should not have doubled the delivery time (or more) in the manner already seen. A specific date matters far less than the concept of holding to a delivery model.

    At this time - the status is that Tivo is working on their part, but hasn't completed it. DirecTV is is "wait and see mode", with apparently no "public" urgency as to a final delivery date. Other than that, few know what happens behind closed doors between the two "partners".

    It's really not that complicated.
     
  2. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Even if I GIVE that TiVo made the best decisions (which I disagree with, BTW), it does not change the facts. TiVo is late .. and it is their fault. You're now trying to say that "because of their prioritization" it's not their fault. Dude, they set the priority .. it is their fault that it's late. You can argue whether that's a good thing or not, but it doesn't make it so TiVo hit their mark on this one. They didn't.


    "My way" leads to disappointment .. "My way" is .. TiVo said we'd have it by date X .. date X passed and we don't have it. "My way" is simply people opening their eyes to reality. Folks are disappointed but it sure isn't because of me. You're loathe to blame Tivo, heck, loathe to blame anyone yet somehow you've made it my fault that people are disappointed. Interesting.
     
  3. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    In a nutshell, bicker1's saying the consumers should not have any expectations based on companies' announcement of a new product, so long as the company does not say the product will be on order on a certain date, such expectations are not good for the consumers.

    Since hardly any company can "commit" to a certain date, the conclusion is no one should have expectations, they only lead to disappointment, which is not good.

    I for one don't like to point fingers at the others, always try to take responsibilities of my own, but I do hope I still have some expectations in life and if I am paying someone for a service, he is expected to deliver something in return. If he fails to do so, I usually will consider his justifications, and be reasonable, but a reasonable third person would not try to butt in and convince me I might be wrong for having expectations, telling me he might not consider me so important than the others to deliver the service, I should just not expect anything from him until such time he gets around to deliver the service for me.

    It is a stupid counter argument.
     
  4. redhot

    redhot Mentor

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    The wait is killing me..............
     
  5. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Me too. While I doubt it will be worth switching, I would like to see what the alternatives will be.

    If it’s limited to what they said back in Sep ’08 then it won’t be worth it for me, but I’m interested to see what the field for the new DirecTiVo.

    Mike
     
  6. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    None of us can speak representing the market, but in general, consumer expectations get motivated by BOTH what they hear and what they see.

    If they hear something, but don't see it...the interest level wanes.
     
  7. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    Absolutely correct. It is just a possibility. Both are just (mutually-exclusive) possibilities.

    No different from the comments it was in reply to.

    So the best approach for consumers is to consider both possibilities. That's what we've been doing. So why are we talking about the discussion? It seems to me that you're simply trying really hard to brow-beat this equally-valid but opposing perspective out of the thread. I'm mistaken about that, right?


    Not necessarily. Sometimes the market takes time to catch up with the plans. Sometimes the market never materializes. Sometimes other things are simply more important. That's not a problem with project management; it's responsible project management.

    Yet some folks are working really hard to make it that way, because they don't want to grant that there is no way to know what's going on inside the two companies.
     
  8. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    :beatdeadhorse:
     
  9. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So, you will chastise someone for putting something forth as fact when it isn’t (even though you were wrong in that case) but when you do it it’s ok?

    I get it now. :rolleyes:

    Mike
     
  10. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    It doesn't need to change the facts. TiVo doing the best for TiVo, while still living up to all their actual obligations, is valid on its own merits. If DirecTV wants to raise an issue about TiVo not living up to its commitments to DirecTV, I bet they would do so.

    An opinion you are entitled to.

    No, your way leads people to corrupt "expected to offer" into a commitment. That wrong-thinking leads to disappointment and disaffection, which is bad for consumers.

    Of course, but many are disappointed because of that type of thinking that you described so well.

    I couldn't care less about TiVo. I care about unfounded expectations and the adverse impact that has on consumers and the consumer marketplace.
     
  11. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    Nope. That's not what I did, and so your attack is ridiculous.


    Precisely. I wish people would stop trying so hard to impose their personal opinions on me. Let us disagree with each other and move on.
     
  12. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Boy, there's a whole lotta circular/false logic flying around. :ewww:

    Mike
     
  13. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    Such a possibility, even if true, does not compell folks here not to blame TiVo for the delay of the DirecTiVo, in fact if true, it may be an additional possible liability for TiVo. Because then it is a proof that TiVo has been strategically ignoring this project out of its own interest, at the expense of the DirecTV's interest. It may go beyond just blaming, rather something more serious for TiVo.

    Are you sure you want to keep going down this path?
     
  14. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    Indeed, you are engaging in a lot of that. Stop it.

    Absolutely: If there is actually something legitimate to blame TiVo for, let's do it. And we can be sure that if TiVo has been strategically ignoring this project out of its own interest, at the expense of the DirecTV's interest, with DirecTV having rights to expect something to the contrary, then DirecTV would assert those rights, and we'd hear about it. We haven't heard any such thing.
     
  15. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    They already did, by saying they had provided all the specs long time ago, besically saying TiVo is responsible for the delay, I guess next you would use the same argument to argue that DirecTV cannot say it is TiVo's to blame:)
     
  16. jacmyoung

    jacmyoung Hall Of Fame

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    Please be aware that this so called possibility/justification, is your own making, if true, would put TiVo in a less defensible position for the delay caused by TiVo, are you even serious that somehow you have made a good counter point?
     
  17. bicker1

    bicker1 Hall Of Fame

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    So you're saying a business is legitimately owed something and they responded by "saying" something. Sorry but that is silly imho. Clearly, TiVo has not done anything (yet) that DirecTV holds grievance for.

    That's an incredibly self-serving, circular line-of-reasoning you've got there.
     
  18. gregjones

    gregjones Hall Of Fame

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    But what would DIRECTV lose if it were more advanced? That is the motive that is missing. I don't see where DIRECTV has anything to lose if the TiVo is phenomenally successful.
     
  19. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Not so ridiculous as it’s exactly what you tried to do to me...see the above.

    You chastised me for asserting something as fact conveniently leaving out the fact that I stated it was opinion in the very post you quoted.

    Now your post...
    Can you see the circular logic in this? You can’t accuse me of putting forth a factual assertion when in it was originally and clearly posted as opinion, while then putting something as a “Given” fact and back peddle and say it was opinion...and then have the gall to hide behind "Let us disagree with each other and move on". Seriously?!? You falsely called me out for stating something as fact, then do exactly what you accused me of doing, and don’t even have the guts to own up to it. :mad:

    Mike
     
  20. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    The final point goes to Mike. Game. Set. Match.

    Bicker1 is a poor bickerer apparently. This was lost before it began.
     
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